Around the NBA - July 2017 Edition (7 Viewers)

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Destroyer of Worlds said:
If Meyers ever became even *competent* offensively his contract would be a BARGAIN given what contracts are going for nowadays. Hell, if he played like he did a couple years ago (not gonna look it up to figure out the stretch in which I remember him lookin ths way) he would get this kind of money. Fact is, right or wrong, 7' somewhat athletic 3pt shooters are RARE. I bet it is actually pretty easy to move Meyers', it's pretty easy for me to believe there is a team willing to take a shot on him because 'he just needs a change of scenery'. I bet Neil just doesn't want to give up on him and face the music.
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There's more to being good than athleticism and shooting touch. He's too mentally fragine to play up to his contract.

I can't believe people still defend this dude.
 
BonesJones said:
They don't need a 3rd ball handler on the court with them. They need shooters.
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I disagree. They want Dame and CJ to take more spot up jumpers. Hence a third ball handler at the SF spot. It's the reason Turner was brought in to begin with.
 
dviss1 said:
I disagree. They want Dame and CJ to take more spot up jumpers. Hence a third ball handler at the SF spot. It's the reason Turner was brought in to begin with.
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Turners not enough of a threat to get guards to completely sag off Lillard and McCollum in helpside in order to stop him. Its a good theory, but didn't materialize.
 
BonesJones said:
They don't need a 3rd ball handler on the court with them. They need shooters.
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CJ/Damian said that the playoff series against the Warriors two years ago showed them they needed one; in fact, I believe Olshey even stated that they said they went to FO and told them specifically that's what they wanted and that is why he was aggressive in getting Evan Turner to the Blazers.
 
Destroyer of Worlds said:
Interesting, I stated Lin is the best player we receive yet his ONLY talent is as scoring guard; something in which we have two of already. We don't need to replicate talent we already have. We need different talent, which includes being versatile, given the scoring nature of our backcourt.

Lin cannot play alongside CJ and Damian. He could play alongside one, not the other, and that is a stretch given his aggressive-score first style, which again, we already have guards that do that. However, Evan Turner CAN play alongside CJ or Damian being that he is more likely to defer, draw and kick/dish, and he also has the size to play SF. Once again, Lin does not - LIMITING.

Interesting, have you watched the Golden State Warriors? They rely on positional versatility and 'lack of defining' positions - according to their players, coach and owner. As a matter of fact, I would disagree. You have numerous players being taken out of games because they cannot play offense, defense, OR shoot a free throw. Coaches willingly take out their best players for more rounded players when the game is on the line. The entire face of the league is based on multi-positional players, hybrids, now where it was totally different just 5 years ago with clear positions. There is a clear reason for that. Being a great big man is worthless if the other big man runs by you all game long and you get tired. Also, it's pretty simple.

Vonleh = PF/C
Evan Turner = PG, SG, SF
Aminu - SF, PF

Between these three players : Two of them play SF. 2 of them play PF. 1 Plays Center. 1 plays PG. (Although I'd probably kill myself if he actually played there) Which means they provide us lineup versatility, as if we had more players. That is why people play hybrids. Because they have the skillset of 2 players that are not easily replaceable.

Say we have Noah Vonleh and ZBO as our PFs and Nurkic as our Center. Only these players.
ZBO is a clear PF, Nurkic a clear C.
Noah is a clear PF/C hybrid.

If we traded Noah for Shaq, we would say what the fuck? Who is going to be our backup PF, right, we have 2 centers (and 1 that is 45 and overweight?) So in essence, Noah covers 2 positions (and players) with his 1 slot, because we would now have to worry about providing a QUALITY, backup PF as well. Same concept. When you replace those 3 players, you really have to replace a PF/C, PG/SG/SF, and a SF/PF.

Your suggestion is replacing all of that with a backup PG/SG and a PF/C, which leaves us down a SF/PF (Aminu) and an additional SF (to makeup for Lin not being able to play SF) as well. But we gain Lin to cover the 10 minutes a game Napier gets.

Agreed, we don't need a PG/SG/SF hybrid like Turner, but we do need a 2/3 hybrid that can dribble and relieve pressure from CJ/Damian while maintaining the ability to play with both of them or one of them. This allows us to always have 2 ballhandlers on the court, and 3 when plays alongside CJ and Damian.

You pointed out the difference between ED and Vonleh right there; Vonleh also has a developing offensive game that I would take over ED. It allows Vonleh to be a better and more effective PnR defender which is imperative in this league.

So you've traded away a future 1st round pick, Crabbe, Vonleh, Ed Davis, Meyers Leonard, Evan Turner, Aminu for Jeremy Lin and Cap Space, which this franchise has a history of doing SO well with bundles of cap space (if we cleared 50 million we would be what, 20 mill under, which gets us no true difference makers if you've looked at the market lately. And we have such a great history with free agents, right, and no assets to top of it!

Trevor Booker is not worth Aminu and Noah Vonleh, good lord my friend.

So we get around 20 mill in cap space, which it is doubful we would do anything with, for all your efforts of destroying the team and losing our first round pick in the process. Kudos!
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Damn man, there's so much to answer to here...

1.) We don't need anymore scorers because it's a replication of Dame and CJ? You can never have enough scorers. Lin would give us two multi-dimensional scorers in the backcourt at all times.

2.) Lin wouldn't need to play next to Dame AND CJ. Stotts always keeps one of Dame and CJ in the game, so a 3rd guard would play whenver one of them isn't in the game. We don't need our 3rd guard to be able to play SF. That's ridiculous. With Dame and CJ getting 35mpg, Lin would get a reasonable 26. Lin would also be a much better fit as a 3rd guard than Turner because he can replicate the scoring of whichever of Dame/CJ is out of the game, and he can also spot up and space for whichever one of Dame and CJ is in the game. It's not going to be a problem if our 3rd guard can't play SF. Having a requirement of our 3rd guard having to be able to play PG, SG, and SF is pointless when they're only backing up Dame and CJ...

3.) Golden State's success isn't due to positional versatility. It's due to talent. They have arguably the best PG who is the best shooter ever, a top 3 player in the league in Durant, and a DPOY in Green that can also shoot and distribute, to go along with a two-way guard in Thompson. Sure, they have positional versatility, because Durant is 7'0, and Draymond is the best defender in the league, but that's it. Thompson is the same size as Crabbe, and has no more versatility than him. Curry has no more positional versatility than Lin. Pachulia is strictly a C, who can't slide over to PF. You take away the talent from Golden State and they're not good anymore. While versatility helps, Golden State's success is due to an insane amount of talent.

4.) You do realize almost every NBA player can play 2 positions right? You're overrating the hell out of Vonleh and Aminu by saying "they can play 2 positions, so they're not easily replaceable".

Guess what, Lin can play 2 positions. Booker can play 2 positions. Harkless can play 2 positions. You're saying we should value Turner because he can play 3 positions, but he does so at a below-average level. He hardly plays PG, and with a 3rd guard, he would never need to play PG. That's exactly my point. With a bench consisting of players in certain roles and certain positions, you don't need the coverage of 3 positions by 1 player. Turner plays SG/SF almost exclusively, which is done by Crabbe as well. What is needed off the bench is a PG/SG (guard), and a SG/SF (wing).

5.) Why is losing Aminu going to fuck our rotation over because we'll lose that "SF/PF hybrid"? Aminu didn't even play at SF last year, so how do we lose 2 SFs??? With Turner playing backup SF behind Harkless, that leaves Crabbe playing exclusively SG. By replacing Turner, our backup SF with a 3rd guard Lin, it slides Crabbe over to backup SF. That means we don't lose a single SF. Aminu doesn't play there, and Crabbe goes from SG to SF and gets Turner's SF minutes.

6.) Vonleh's offensive game is still not better than Davis', and we're talking present tense here. Davis is just as good of a defender, and a much better finisher around the rim (which goes good with Dame and CJ in pick n rolls). I'm not talking about what they could be way down the road, I'm talking about what they'll bring next year.

7.) We don't need a SG/SF that can handle the ball. It'd be nice, but it's more important to have spacing there instead of ball handling, because a good shooting SF is much more help to Dame and CJ when they play together than a ball-handling non-shooter is. We do need two-ball handlers on the court at all times, which is what a 3rd guard like Lin would give us. We don't need a 3rd ball handler next to Dame or CJ, we need a shooting SF. If there's a lineup of Dame, CJ, and Crabbe, nobody will double off Crabbe onto Dame or CJ, and if they do, Crabbe will make them play. Crabbe increasing spacing, which relieves pressure of Dame and CJ, and is a release valve out of double teams because he's a shooting threat off the catch.

8.) "So you've traded away a future 1st round pick, Crabbe, Vonleh, Ed Davis, Meyers Leonard, Evan Turner, Aminu for Jeremy Lin and Cap Space,"
WTF???? I said to trade away a 1st, Vonleh, Turner, Leonard, and Aminu for Lin, Booker, and savings. I don't know where you got Crabbe and Davis from, and I don't know where you got the idea I was suggesting trading six players for one, As I'm saying trade four for two. It's really three for two since Meyers doesn't/won't play.

9.) Trevor Booker is worth trading Aminu and Vonleh for if it gets rid of Leonards or Turners contract. Booker is a better finisher and defender than either of them, which is what CJ and Dame need. I wouldn't do Booker for Aminu and Vonleh straight up, as Vonleh has potential and Booker is 29. However, if we're just talking about next year, then having Booker will make us a better team than having Aminu and Vonleh.

10.) Have a good day.
 
Destroyer of Worlds said:
We've seen the whole team healthy for less than 15 games dude.
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We don't need to have the rest of the team healthy to see Turner's fit at SF with Lillard and McCollum on the court with him. We saw that trio for a good portion of the year, and Turner isn't creating spot up 3s for either of them. What defender do you think is going to sag off Lillard or McCollum to help with Evan Turner??? The same Evan Turner that isn't quick enough to get by his man and who's favorite shot is a 12 foot pull-up that he barely shoots 40% on? Guards don't even help much anyways, it's bigs that do. To think that the threat of Evan freakin' Turner is enough to pull guards into the lane to create spot up opportunities for Dame and CJ is foolish, and it didn't happen when the 3 were playing together last year.
 
Destroyer of Worlds said:
CJ/Damian said that the playoff series against the Warriors two years ago showed them they needed one; in fact, I believe Olshey even stated that they said they went to FO and told them specifically that's what they wanted and that is why he was aggressive in getting Evan Turner to the Blazers.
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The issue there was that when one of Dame or CJ went out, there would only be one ball handler on the court because Henderson isn't one. When there was only one of Dame and CJ in the game, they'd get blitzed and have zero help. That's why we always need two ball-handlers on the court at the same time. Doesn't mean we need three.
 
dviss1 said:
Nurk bro. Nurk.

Turner will be fine.
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I don't see how Nurk being a huge help to Dame and CJ means that Turner will get them open threes. Maybe I missed how that connects?
 
There goes my boy McLemore. Coulda had him with our MLE. Oh well.
 
BonesJones said:
Damn man, there's so much to answer to here...

1.) We don't need anymore scorers because it's a replication of Dame and CJ? You can never have enough scorers. Lin would give us two multi-dimensional scorers in the backcourt at all times.

2.) Lin wouldn't need to play next to Dame AND CJ. Stotts always keeps one of Dame and CJ in the game, so a 3rd guard would play whenver one of them isn't in the game. We don't need our 3rd guard to be able to play SF. That's ridiculous. With Dame and CJ getting 35mpg, Lin would get a reasonable 26. Lin would also be a much better fit as a 3rd guard than Turner because he can replicate the scoring of whichever of Dame/CJ is out of the game, and he can also spot up and space for whichever one of Dame and CJ is in the game. It's not going to be a problem if our 3rd guard can't play SF. Having a requirement of our 3rd guard having to be able to play PG, SG, and SF is pointless when they're only backing up Dame and CJ...

3.) Golden State's success isn't due to positional versatility. It's due to talent. They have arguably the best PG who is the best shooter ever, a top 3 player in the league in Durant, and a DPOY in Green that can also shoot and distribute, to go along with a two-way guard in Thompson. Sure, they have positional versatility, because Durant is 7'0, and Draymond is the best defender in the league, but that's it. Thompson is the same size as Crabbe, and has no more versatility than him. Curry has no more positional versatility than Lin. Pachulia is strictly a C, who can't slide over to PF. You take away the talent from Golden State and they're not good anymore. While versatility helps, Golden State's success is due to an insane amount of talent.

4.) You do realize almost every NBA player can play 2 positions right? You're overrating the hell out of Vonleh and Aminu by saying "they can play 2 positions, so they're not easily replaceable".

Guess what, Lin can play 2 positions. Booker can play 2 positions. Harkless can play 2 positions. You're saying we should value Turner because he can play 3 positions, but he does so at a below-average level. He hardly plays PG, and with a 3rd guard, he would never need to play PG. That's exactly my point. With a bench consisting of players in certain roles and certain positions, you don't need the coverage of 3 positions by 1 player. Turner plays SG/SF almost exclusively, which is done by Crabbe as well. What is needed off the bench is a PG/SG (guard), and a SG/SF (wing).

5.) Why is losing Aminu going to fuck our rotation over because we'll lose that "SF/PF hybrid"? Aminu didn't even play at SF last year, so how do we lose 2 SFs??? With Turner playing backup SF behind Harkless, that leaves Crabbe playing exclusively SG. By replacing Turner, our backup SF with a 3rd guard Lin, it slides Crabbe over to backup SF. That means we don't lose a single SF. Aminu doesn't play there, and Crabbe goes from SG to SF and gets Turner's SF minutes.

6.) Vonleh's offensive game is still not better than Davis', and we're talking present tense here. Davis is just as good of a defender, and a much better finisher around the rim (which goes good with Dame and CJ in pick n rolls). I'm not talking about what they could be way down the road, I'm talking about what they'll bring next year.

7.) We don't need a SG/SF that can handle the ball. It'd be nice, but it's more important to have spacing there instead of ball handling, because a good shooting SF is much more help to Dame and CJ when they play together than a ball-handling non-shooter is. We do need two-ball handlers on the court at all times, which is what a 3rd guard like Lin would give us. We don't need a 3rd ball handler next to Dame or CJ, we need a shooting SF. If there's a lineup of Dame, CJ, and Crabbe, nobody will double off Crabbe onto Dame or CJ, and if they do, Crabbe will make them play. Crabbe increasing spacing, which relieves pressure of Dame and CJ, and is a release valve out of double teams because he's a shooting threat off the catch.

8.) "So you've traded away a future 1st round pick, Crabbe, Vonleh, Ed Davis, Meyers Leonard, Evan Turner, Aminu for Jeremy Lin and Cap Space,"
WTF???? I said to trade away a 1st, Vonleh, Turner, Leonard, and Aminu for Lin, Booker, and savings. I don't know where you got Crabbe and Davis from, and I don't know where you got the idea I was suggesting trading six players for one, As I'm saying trade four for two. It's really three for two since Meyers doesn't/won't play.

9.) Trevor Booker is worth trading Aminu and Vonleh for if it gets rid of Leonards or Turners contract. Booker is a better finisher and defender than either of them, which is what CJ and Dame need. I wouldn't do Booker for Aminu and Vonleh straight up, as Vonleh has potential and Booker is 29. However, if we're just talking about next year, then having Booker will make us a better team than having Aminu and Vonleh.

10.) Have a good day.
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Bruh... tl/dr
 
Cippy91 said:
Teams around us getting better meanwhile we suffer because of olsheys shitty overpaying last summer. Meyers contract never should of happened. Crabbe should of been let go. Turner obviously was surprised he got offered that much. Crazy
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Maybe I'm being over dramatic, but if Utah keeps GH I really think we'll be the worst team in the division and miss out on the playoffs.
 
Olshey likes Meyers a lot. Stotts really does...not like playing him. It's a vicious circle because if you don't showcase him he's a lot tougher to sell off to someone else.
 
calvin natt said:
Olshey likes Meyers a lot. Stotts really does...not like playing him. It's a vicious circle because if you don't showcase him he's a lot tougher to sell off to someone else.
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That's the problem. Nobody wanted Meyers to come back last season and we resigned a guy who even given a lot of chances last season, show cased nothing. Same with crabbe. Crabbe is the same old non aggressive guy. Had a couple games where he showed out, other than that, didn't do much to live up to hat contract. No value with that contract
 
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