Ayton

[SharpesTriumph]

Why are Book & KD done with Ayton?
I haven't seen much friction between them on the court

Ayton is rumored to be addicted to video games and doesn't get proper sleep or prepare his body

Complained with coaches about minutes/touches/role. Maybe some of the complaints spilled over to Book/KD or maybe they are just sick of overhearing it.

Certainly some legit red flags. Sometimes players just need a scenery change to mature - think ZBo.

If we had to give up multiple firsts or something I say hell no, but if its just Nurk and a bench player its worth the risk.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Ayton's measurables are amazing. I had no idea.
7'6" wingspan 9.3 standing reach, 43 1/2 vertical. 250 lbs

 

[BIG Q]

Why are Book & KD done with Ayton?
I haven't seen much friction between them on the court

What Sharpes Triumph said. Ayton did not get along with Monty Williams. Much of Williams undoing here in Phoenix is because it’s quietly said he had his favorites and players he did not like. He never liked Ayton on a personal level. Did not connect. But it is said Williams struggled connecting with other players as well. Again, it is something that is hush hush here but Matt Ishbia wanted a coach that connected with all players. Too much water under the bridge for Booker. It’s said he understands Aytons stance, but just simply wants to move on. KD defers to Booker. This is Books team and KD rolls how Book rolls

Personally, I think Ayton is more than worth the gamble if not putting out more than Nurk And Nas. Many here want Simmons from the Nets. I like Ayton much more. Kid can give 24/10 nightly. He is a great low post and pick and pop shooter. He wants to be a part of the game plan. With Scoot and Sharpe, Ayton can be a beast.

 

[TBpup]

I just spoke with someone in Phoenix and they made it seem like not only have there been some discussions, that there have been more discussions than are being reported in their opinion. They think ownership/management is ready to move on and Ayton has done some things they don't think they want to deal with as a team or even at media day given some of his actions and comments.

They seem to think Portland has liked DA before and this is more likely than not to happen either on it's own or as part of a bigger deal.

It was almost enough to make me go to my dresser drawer and pull out my 'shorts'. They were very reasonable in their assessment and now I'm digging even further.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Personally, I think Ayton is more than worth the gamble if not putting out more than Nurk And Nas. Many here want Simmons from the Nets. I like Ayton much more. Kid can give 24/10 nightly. He is a great low post and pick and pop shooter. He wants to be a part of the game plan. With Scoot and Sharpe, Ayton can be a beast.

Yeah that was me and I still do. However, I agree I would rather have Ayton.

 

[RonBrewer]

I just spoke with someone in Phoenix and they made it seem like not only have there been some discussions, that there have been more discussions than are being reported in their opinion. They think ownership/management is ready to move on and Ayton has done some things they don't think they want to deal with as a team or even at media day given some of his actions and comments.

They seem to think Portland has liked DA before and this is more likely than not to happen either on it's own or as part of a bigger deal.

It was almost enough to make me go to my dresser drawer and pull out my 'shorts'. They were very reasonable in their assessment and now I'm digging even further.

I am in the camp that Ayton would be a good addition. Build him a game room for the offseason

 

[BankTeller]

Amazing that he flashes all the ability, but is his mentality really that fragile? I mean, for Nurk and Martin or McConnell or whoever, sure it’s worth the risk, but it makes me temper my expectations.

Is he really that bad of a malcontent that the Suns would give up on him before even one game with Vogel. Even as a player, why does he get pushed off his base so easily? All reasons for concern, but his showing with the Bahamas team at least inspires optimism.

 

[TBpup]

Amazing that he flashes all the ability, but is his mentality really that fragile? I mean, for Nurk and Martin or McConnell or whoever, sure it’s worth the risk, but it makes me temper my expectations.

Is he really that bad of a malcontent that the Suns would give up on him before even one game with Vogel. Even as a player, why does he get pushed off his base so easily? All reasons for concern, but his showing with the Bahamas team at least inspires optimism.

It was like watching Nurk last year make plays for his home country team that way rarely if ever see him make for the Blazers.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Amazing that he flashes all the ability, but is his mentality really that fragile? I mean, for Nurk and Martin or McConnell or whoever, sure it’s worth the risk, but it makes me temper my expectations.

Is he really that bad of a malcontent that the Suns would give up on him before even one game with Vogel. Even as a player, why does he get pushed off his base so easily? All reasons for concern, but his showing with the Bahamas team at least inspires optimism.

They know Ayton will be the better player and already is. Their aspirations are bigger. Championship. They can't invest anymore time and hope into Ayton at the expense of a chip. They are at the doorstep. Like the Warriors and Wiseman, the Suns are willing to take a much lower ceiling for something more stable.

We have the luxury of being bad and bringing Ayton along slowly with a change of scenery. He's already an 18 and 10 guy.

 

[Driew]

Amazing that he flashes all the ability, but is his mentality really that fragile? I mean, for Nurk and Martin or McConnell or whoever, sure it’s worth the risk, but it makes me temper my expectations.

Is he really that bad of a malcontent that the Suns would give up on him before even one game with Vogel. Even as a player, why does he get pushed off his base so easily? All reasons for concern, but his showing with the Bahamas team at least inspires optimism.

From what I read about him from Phoenix insiders is he cares more about video games than working on his game.

 

[blazerfan11]

Amazing that he flashes all the ability, but is his mentality really that fragile? I mean, for Nurk and Martin or McConnell or whoever, sure it’s worth the risk, but it makes me temper my expectations.

Is he really that bad of a malcontent that the Suns would give up on him before even one game with Vogel. Even as a player, why does he get pushed off his base so easily? All reasons for concern, but his showing with the Bahamas team at least inspires optimism.

Wow. I would love to see some of this from Scoot and Ayton if it were to happen. (video below). You may dislike Chris Paul, but I can't see how anyone can dislike his passing skills.

For me, I've always disliked little guards who ignore big guys who have a clear mismatch, especially when said big man moves his body to get that mismatch, like when they run the floor.
I really enjoyed the chemistry between Lamarcus Alridge and Sergio Rodriguez. Aldridge knew Sergio would get him the ball if he ran the floor.
I think that was a missed opportunity by Nate McMillan to make the offense more diverse and difficult to defend.
Playing with a passing point guard also (my opinion) energizes the teammates on defense. The guys who need help scoring know they will get that help if they get a stop then run the floor.

I don't mind that talented big guys get a bit upset when they're left out of the offense, because I'm upset with them.

I think Scoot could make a talented big man (and the offense) very difficult to defend with the the big man racking up fouls on the other team and high-percentage scores at the hoop.

edit: We saw Scoot surrounded by 3 or even 4 players in the summer league. It would be very difficult to defend him and Ayton. Scoot might not be the passer (yet) that Chris Paul is , but he's going to be more difficult to stop from getting to the hoop himself.

 

[TBpup]

IF.....the Suns don't trade Ayton now or by next season, it becomes increasingly difficult for them to move him and they are more likely to be stuck with him, especially if this year doesn't go well. That, or they might not get much back. They may feel they need to trade him and he wants a fresh start and not go another 6 months where things don't go well.

 

[blazerfan11]

I haven't watched Ayton a lot, but one thing you notice instantly is how good his hands are.
Pair a big man with real big-man size with good hands and good finishing ability with Scoot Henderson. Geez.
I think I'd trade Lillard and Nurkic for Ayton and that would be good enough.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I would be happy with either of these --

Ayton + OG for Dame

or

Ayton + Barnes for Dame

I think there's a better chance than we're giving it credit for that we're talking about Barnes and not OG. OG makes more sense if you're competing with Dame. Barnes makes less sense for them in that regard but either would be very acceptable.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

IF.....the Suns don't trade Ayton now or by next season, it becomes increasingly difficult for them to move him and they are more likely to be stuck with him, especially if this year doesn't go well. That, or they might not get much back. They may feel they need to trade him and he wants a fresh start and not go another 6 months where things don't go well.

Not sure I 100% buy this, Ayton makes much more than Nurk. 2nd apron rules won't allow aggregation of salaries in trades next year. They could trade Ayton for a 35 million player next year, but they can't trade Nurk+someone for that player.

Perhaps if they plan on more role players at smaller salaries, or just want to save tax it makes sense. But they lose some flexibility to do a big trade later by moving Ayton now.

If they think Ayton value may go down then it makes sense for them to get what they can now.

 

[TBpup]

Not sure I 100% buy this, Ayton makes much more than Nurk. 2nd apron rules won't allow aggregation of salaries in trades next year. They could trade Ayton for a 35 million player next year, but they can't trade Nurk+someone for that player.

Perhaps if they plan on more role players at smaller salaries, or just want to save tax it makes sense. But they lose some flexibility to do a big trade later by moving Ayton now.

If they think Ayton value may go down then it makes sense for them to get what they can now.

I was simply going over an amalgamation of some of the reasons they might do it from the perspective of someone in Phoenix. Who knows what they actually do, but he believed there are multiple reasons they might move him either now or fairly soon.

 

[BankTeller]

From what I read about him from Phoenix insiders is he cares more about video games than working on his game.

The whole video games argument gets so overblown imo. There were people on this forum screaming red flag with Sharpe who similarly plays a lot of video games. Doesn’t Scoot stream? Video games literally just comes with the generation. I’m in the minority of people my age who doesn’t play video games, and I haven’t bought this year’s 2k nor do I plan to.

I could be 100% wrong, but I chalk it up to him not being happy with his situation that he didn’t put as much effort into basketball as he should’ve—meaning video games, poor nutrition, etc. If/when he gets here, maybe it’s up to us to let him establish early as a scorer, at least 20ppg. Then as his confidence goes up, constantly remind him that he’s only going to be able to maintain this play if he focuses on nutrition, working out, etc.

 

[BIG Q]

I am in the camp that Ayton would be a good addition. Build him a game room for the offseason

I’m told he has a custom suitcase that Carrie’s his games and what not when traveling. Mind you I am gaming illiterate. I have an addictive personality and have never had a game consol in my house. My kids play at their friends houses.

 

[Natebishop3]

The whole video games argument gets so overblown imo. There were people on this forum screaming red flag with Sharpe who similarly plays a lot of video games. Doesn’t Scoot stream? Video games literally just comes with the generation. I’m in the minority of people my age who doesn’t play video games, and I haven’t bought this year’s 2k nor do I plan to.

I could be 100% wrong, but I chalk it up to him not being happy with his situation that he didn’t put as much effort into basketball as he should’ve—meaning video games, poor nutrition, etc. If/when he gets here, maybe it’s up to us to let him establish early as a scorer, at least 20ppg. Then as his confidence goes up, constantly remind him that he’s only going to be able to maintain this play if he focuses on nutrition, working out, etc.

I have had a crippling addiction to video games. Not so much anymore but I have seen games ruin marriages. I have seen them cause people to fail out of college. I have seen people isolate themselves from their friends and family. Games like World of Warcraft are dangerously addictive. People playing 12+ hours per day. A friend of mine had a roommate that played WoW so much that he wouldn’t leave his room and he’d pee in 2 liter jugs and leave them around the room.

It’s a serious addiction and it can fuck up your life just as bad as any drug.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I have had a crippling addiction to video games. Not so much anymore but I have seen games ruin marriages. I have seen them cause people to fail out of college. I have seen people isolate themselves from their friends and family. Games like World of Warcraft are dangerously addictive. People playing 12+ hours per day. A friend of mine had a roommate that played WoW so much that he wouldn’t leave his room and he’d pee in 2 liter jugs and leave them around the room.

It’s a serious addiction and it can fuck up your life just as bad as any drug.

Joe Lieberman? Is that you?

 

[HansenYang]

Ayton has done some things they don't think they want to deal with as a team or even at media day given some of his actions and comments.

This is yet another red flag.
I live in Phoenix & have watched quite a bit of Ayton. Even in college, I didn't see him being worth the #1 pick... but I agree it's worth the risk for the cost of Nurk + Nas

 

[illmatic99]

I just spoke with someone in Phoenix and they made it seem like not only have there been some discussions, that there have been more discussions than are being reported in their opinion. They think ownership/management is ready to move on and Ayton has done some things they don't think they want to deal with as a team or even at media day given some of his actions and comments.

They seem to think Portland has liked DA before and this is more likely than not to happen either on it's own or as part of a bigger deal.

It was almost enough to make me go to my dresser drawer and pull out my 'shorts'. They were very reasonable in their assessment and now I'm digging even further.

what did he do now? i know he was suspended for taking a banned substance early in his career, but thought he grew past that. He seemed like a mature young man leading that Bahamas team in FIBA

 

[BIG Q]

what did he do now? i know he was suspended for taking a banned substance early in his career, but thought he grew past that. He seemed like a mature young man leading that Bahamas team in FIBA

That is the thing with Ayton. In my opinion, when he is "the man," he is really very good. With the Bahama's, he was a featured player. With the Suns he is either the fourth or fifth option on offense. Ayton simply disengages if he is not a part of the offense. In Portland, with Scoot and Sharpe Ayton should be a featured player. He is very good down low. But with Booker, Paul, Bridges, Cam Johnson and then KD, Ayton was an offensive after thought. I have very little doubt Ayton and Scoot would be very successful. Ayton has a nice jump shot too, not just dunks and lay ups. Booker has just moved on from Ayton. It is understandable. But the kid, in the right environment can be incredible. Is Chauncey the right coach? I think he is more of a players coach than disciplinarian. He could be ZBo in Memphis. Focused and all star level.

 

[blazerfan11]

That is the thing with Ayton. In my opinion, when he is "the man," he is really very good. With the Bahama's, he was a featured player. With the Suns he is either the fourth or fifth option on offense. Ayton simply disengages if he is not a part of the offense. In Portland, with Scoot and Sharpe Ayton should be a featured player. He is very good down low. But with Booker, Paul, Bridges, Cam Johnson and then KD, Ayton was an offensive after thought. I have very little doubt Ayton and Scoot would be very successful. Ayton has a nice jump shot too, not just dunks and lay ups. Booker has just moved on from Ayton. It is understandable. But the kid, in the right environment can be incredible. Is Chauncey the right coach? I think he is more of a players coach than disciplinarian. He could be ZBo in Memphis. Focused and all star level.

" I have very little doubt Ayton and Scoot would be very successful. " Me too.

We saw Scoot take on an athletic Houston team in summer league and be very effective in the paint, even when his shoulder was being hit by Amen Thompson and hand by Tari Eason as he put in a reverse layup. If the Blazers could combine Scoot, who puts an enormous amount of pressure on the hoop by himself with his strength and athleticism, with a skilled big man with that hands that Ayton possesses, that's going to be a big problem for opposing teams.

 

[BankTeller]

That is the thing with Ayton. In my opinion, when he is "the man," he is really very good. With the Bahama's, he was a featured player. With the Suns he is either the fourth or fifth option on offense. Ayton simply disengages if he is not a part of the offense. In Portland, with Scoot and Sharpe Ayton should be a featured player. He is very good down low. But with Booker, Paul, Bridges, Cam Johnson and then KD, Ayton was an offensive after thought. I have very little doubt Ayton and Scoot would be very successful. Ayton has a nice jump shot too, not just dunks and lay ups. Booker has just moved on from Ayton. It is understandable. But the kid, in the right environment can be incredible. Is Chauncey the right coach? I think he is more of a players coach than disciplinarian. He could be ZBo in Memphis. Focused and all star level.

I’m starting to come around to the same thoughts.

I had to check his stats, it’s shocking he shot only 13 shots a game. Just by getting an additional 4-5 shots a game at 55%fg, he would already be close to the 20pt mark without the free throws. Between a few dumpoffs, tips, rolling and popping, maybe some fast break opportunities, he should get there.

Involving him in the offense more might be all that’s needed to encourage him to do all of the other things. I never got to see David Robinson play outside of highlight tapes, but Ayton has shown me the ability to do pretty much everything Robinson does (on offense). I was also surprised he averages 10rpg because he never feels like has that many. Given his physical gifts, he should be in the 12+rpg category.

 

[BankTeller]

Wow. I would love to see some of this from Scoot and Ayton if it were to happen. (video below). You may dislike Chris Paul, but I can't see how anyone can dislike his passing skills.

For me, I've always disliked little guards who ignore big guys who have a clear mismatch, especially when said big man moves his body to get that mismatch, like when they run the floor.
I really enjoyed the chemistry between Lamarcus Alridge and Sergio Rodriguez. Aldridge knew Sergio would get him the ball if he ran the floor.
I think that was a missed opportunity by Nate McMillan to make the offense more diverse and difficult to defend.
Playing with a passing point guard also (my opinion) energizes the teammates on defense. The guys who need help scoring know they will get that help if they get a stop then run the floor.

I don't mind that talented big guys get a bit upset when they're left out of the offense, because I'm upset with them.

I think Scoot could make a talented big man (and the offense) very difficult to defend with the the big man racking up fouls on the other team and high-percentage scores at the hoop.

edit: We saw Scoot surrounded by 3 or even 4 players in the summer league. It would be very difficult to defend him and Ayton. Scoot might not be the passer (yet) that Chris Paul is , but he's going to be more difficult to stop from getting to the hoop himself.

In CP3-ball, he is going to automatically make everyone look good. Playing CP3-ball already made him a 17-18ppg kind of player. The problem is Ayton came in thinking he was going to be a generation offensive talent but was relegated to being a more talented Deandre Jordan, when they’re not the same kind of player. CP3 makes all the decisions, and there have been players who played with him that have said if CP doesn’t think you’re making the shot, he won’t pass it to you.

Ayton’s season with the most fga was just under 15, that was his second year. Last year, it was 13. Very rarely is a #1 pick going to only get that many attempts and be happy. This is especially true looking at the Olympic tape when he is the guy.

I hope to see Scoot find Ayton like CP3 did. As you’ve mentioned, teams are going to have to defend a drop off or kickout with Ayton as a threat to shoot or dunk the ball.

Ayton shoots the ball surprisingly well. Someone’s going to need to compare Ayton vs Aldridge on long 2s, but he looks like he could shoot those as often as Aldridge and have similar success.

The Olympic clip showed me when he makes his moves decisively on a face-up, he can get to the rim and finish easily. It would really open everything up to have a big man to can stretch the floor and can finish that well.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I have had a crippling addiction to video games. Not so much anymore but I have seen games ruin marriages. I have seen them cause people to fail out of college. I have seen people isolate themselves from their friends and family. Games like World of Warcraft are dangerously addictive. People playing 12+ hours per day. A friend of mine had a roommate that played WoW so much that he wouldn’t leave his room and he’d pee in 2 liter jugs and leave them around the room.

It’s a serious addiction and it can fuck up your life just as bad as any drug.

I have heard of these types of stories. I had a friend who paid a lot of money for his kid to go to some special "rehab" while in HS.
Having said that I don't think Ayton's situation is anywhere close to his. Granted it would be best if his addiction
was basketball and spending all his time in a gym, but I would be more concerned if he was out in clubs every night instead where he could get into trouble, than being in his room on the road playing video games.

 

[RonBrewer]

Does he spend more time on video games than Dame does rapping?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I have heard of these types of stories. I had a friend who paid a lot of money for his kid to go to some special "rehab" while in HS.
Having said that I don't think Ayton's situation is anywhere close to his. Granted it would be best if his addiction
was basketball and spending all his time in a gym, but I would be more concerned if he was out in clubs every night instead where he could get into trouble, than being in his room on the road playing video games.

Who said that cant get you into trouble?

see one Meyers Leonard.

 

[HailBlazers]

As long as he doesnt drink like a fish.