Bad summer still a bummer for struggling Trail Blazers

[oldfisherman]

Olshey states "He believes the first 36 games have not revealed who the Blazers truly are".

I actually agree with this. I think its reasonable to think that with a more favorable schedule later in the year and some good health we can start to surge a little in the standings and sew up a playoff spot(#8) and perhaps approach or even match last years win total..

And that is who the Blazers truly are. A team that spent a shitload of bread on some dubious or questionable contracts and in the end did not move the ball forward one inch. I don't see the point of a trade simply for the sake of a trade but I think we need more than just a little "roster tinkering" here. Neil's plan is starting to feel a little ambiguous to me. I'll reserve judgment on Olshey until after the offseason is over, but I'm looking for more than more than mediocre/treadmill/1st round playoff fodder basketball. I've been watching that shit for 35 years now. Just give me a reason to believe and I'd gladly take the leap. In fact, just give me Boogie and I'll accept whatever may come our way.

I just wanted to say strong post for a newbie, before HCP crushes you with his rookie initiation roast.

 

[Cippy91]

Disappointed to see we aren't going after Noel. I don't think olshey will make a move. In his defense he has no reason to. It's not like we will contend this season so what's the point? Sounds like he wants to do his work in the offseason instead. For the millionth time, I don't understand this organizations love fest with Meyers. 5 years and he still is terrible. The day he is gone, the day I celebrate as if we won a title. Crabbe is obviously another one the organization loves. Paul didn't even think twice huh? That's pretty scary. I was much more in favor of cutting Meyers and going after Dwight even if he was set on playing for his hometown.

 

[LicketyBrindle]

I just wanted to say strong post for a newbie, before HCP crushes you with his rookie initiation roast.

Thank you. It's a bit of a labor for me to articulate my thoughts through the keyboard sometimes so I'm glad it makes some sense. As for The HCP rookie crushing. I'm trying to lay low. LOL. I actually have fairly thick skin and enjoy a little good natured jousting from time to time. It's kind of nice to have something or someone to push back on once in awhile just to keep things lively.

 

[noknobs]

Until either Noel is traded elsewhere, or the trade deadline passes, I'm just going to tell myself this is just the typical Olshey loose lips sink ships approach. Otherwise, I'd have to completely give up all hope of substantial improvement and lose all faith and respect for Neil Olshey. Whether a trade happens, or not, anything that has the potential to improve the team HAS to at least be on the radar.

Trading Crabbe for Noel solves two of Neil's biggest blunders of last summer. It let's us get out from under Crabbe's ridiculous contract (relative to his role and his production). And, it actually gets us an elite defensive big man, not a guy in a suit who yells at the teammates he's never played a single minute with.

BNM

Crabbe wasn't Neil's blunder. Article says it was a mandate from Paul Allen. I want what you want, but if that's true, then that's probably why Noel isn't on our radar; because Paul has a man-crush on Crabbe and we aren't trading CJ. Doubtful our needle can move much at the trade deadline if neither of those guys are for sale.

But hopefully Paul has seen the error of his ways and Philly wants to Tango.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Disappointed to see we aren't going after Noel. I don't think olshey will make a move. In his defense he has no reason to. It's not like we will contend this season so what's the point?

The point is we have an incredibly unbalanced, flawed roster. Noel is a 22-year old elite defending big man who addresses our biggest need and makes our core, going forward, younger.

He is available NOW and if we trade for him we will own his Bird rights, which will put us in the catbird seat for retaining him when he becomes an RFA on July 1. Without his Bird rights we have no hope of signing him this summer when other teams will have cap space to spend and someone else will hold his Bird Rights.

With his Bird rights, we would have the option to match any offer he receives. Worst case, he gets a toxic offer and we choose to let him walk. Based on Neil's propensity to match outrageous offers, I don't expect that would actually happen, but if it did, and the trade is indeed Crabbe for Noel, I view a three month rental of Nerlens Noel as a net positive as it lets us jettison Crabbe's ridiculous contract and lets us clear his $18.5 million a year off our payroll.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Crabbe wasn't Neil's blunder. Article says it was a mandate from Paul Allen. I want what you want, but if that's true, then that's probably why Noel isn't on our radar; because Paul has a man-crush on Crabbe and we aren't trading CJ. Doubtful our needle can move much at the trade deadline if neither of those guys are for sale.

But hopefully Paul has seen the error of his ways and Philly wants to Tango.

It's Neil's job to evaluate talent and determine their worth, not cow tow to his boss' every whim. So if it was Paul's choice to match Crabbe, it was Neil's job to talk him out of it - unless Neil agreed.

BNM

 

[LicketyBrindle]

Yeah, that's the main issue I have with Olshey's summer. That he didn't accumulate "assets" that will drive a true contention cycle but, rather, he locked the team into mediocrity.

I fully recognize that reality may prove me wrong but, right now, I think Crabbe, Leonard and Turner have negative trade value. They might be tradeable, but only as the cost of doing business to another team interested in Portland draft picks or McCollum. If so, then either Portland is largely locked into this roster or else they'll need to weaken themselves in order to create flexibility going forward.

I hope I'm wrong but currently I don't think so or else I wouldn't hold this opinion.

Yes this mirrors pretty much with my thoughts and concerns for the future. I too hope were wrong but at this time it has the appearance of someone whose may have painted himself into a bit of a corner regardless of his best intentions. I'll be curious see what he does to get this headed in the right direction given his options.

 

[illmatic99]

The point is we have an incredibly unbalanced, flawed roster. Noel is a 22-year old elite defending big man who addresses our biggest need and makes our core, going forward, younger.

He is available NOW and if we trade for him we will own his Bird rights, which will put us in the catbird seat for retaining him when he becomes an RFA on July 1. Without his Bird rights we have no hope of signing him this summer when other teams will have cap space to spend and someone else will hold his Bird Rights.

With his Bird rights, we would have the option to match any offer he receives. Worst case, he gets a toxic offer and we choose to let him walk. Based on Neil's propensity to match outrageous offers, I don't expect that would actually happen, but if it did, and the trade is indeed Crabbe for Noel, I view a three month rental of Nerlens Noel as a net positive as it lets us jettison Crabbe's ridiculous contract and lets us clear his $18.5 million a year off our payroll.

BNM

Noel also has a pretty substantial knee/injury history and some clear cut issues off the court. I want him for AC as well, but he's not as perfect of a candidate as you make him. After the Festus knee fiasco, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Neil is spooked after looking at how many games Nerlens has missed.

 

[e_blazer]

Yeah, that's the main issue I have with Olshey's summer. That he didn't accumulate "assets" that will drive a true contention cycle but, rather, he locked the team into mediocrity.

I fully recognize that reality may prove me wrong but, right now, I think Crabbe, Leonard and Turner have negative trade value. They might be tradeable, but only as the cost of doing business to another team interested in Portland draft picks or McCollum. If so, then either Portland is largely locked into this roster or else they'll need to weaken themselves in order to create flexibility going forward.

I hope I'm wrong but currently I don't think so or else I wouldn't hold this opinion.

The more I think about it, I tend to agree with you on Crabbe, Leonard and Turner's value right now. The Blazers have performed poorly and those three are responsible for much of the blame. Based on that, I'm beginning to think that Olshey will hold pat and let this season play out without a trade, hoping that those 3 get their games together and improve their value. Should it come to it, CJ will be a lot easier and more lucrative to move in the summer as well once his PPP goes away. All of that says that what we have is likely what we get going forward the rest of this season.

 

[Scalma]

Guys, Neil isn't showing interest in Noel because he's obsessed with Vucevic and maybe/hopefully Nurkic. Those two seem to fit Olsheys idea of a center more than Noel (Big bodies that baaaang)

 

[Boob-No-More]

Noel also has a pretty substantial knee/injury history and some clear cut issues off the court. I want him for AC as well, but perfect of a candidate as you make him. After the Festus knee fiasco, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Neil is spooked after looking at how many games Nerlens has missed.

He completely recovered from the ACL he tore in college. His latest knee surgery wasn't even necessary. It was a minor outpatient procedure to remove a part of the knee that serves no known purpose (There are no known problems associated with not having a plica, so you won't miss it.) It could have easily been postponed until the off season, if the team hadn't planned on benching him to try the Embiid/Okafor experiment.

This is NOT an Ezeli, Roy or Oden situation.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Guys, Neil isn't showing interest in Noel because he's obsessed with Vucevic and maybe/hopefully Nurkic. Those two seem to fit Olsheys idea of center more than Noel (Big bodies that baaaang)

I'd rather have someone who is athletic enough to cover ground both vertically (for rim protection) and horizontally (to defend the pick and roll).

If guys like Vucevic and Nurkic are Neil's idea of a center, that goes a long way toward explaining why we have the worst defense in the league.

BNM

 

[noknobs]

It's Neil's job to evaluate talent and determine their worth, not cow tow to his boss' every whim. So if it was Paul's choice to match Crabbe, it was Neil's job to talk him out of it - unless Neil agreed.

BNM

I understand your point but it's hard to talk him out of it if, and I quote, "There was no dialogue, no consultation. Crabbe was being retained."

None of us know if he tried to talk Paul out of it so that's unfair to assume. If he tried, it's also unfair to blame him for ultimately having to do what his boss wanted. Doesn't mean he cow tow's to Paul's every whim. In my experience as a working adult, sometimes you can disagree with your boss but your boss still gets their way, no matter what kind of logic you throw at them.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Boob-No-More]

I understand your point but it's hard to talk him out of it if, and I quote, "There was no dialogue, no consultation. Crabbe was being retained."

None of us know if he tried to talk Paul out of it so that's unfair to assume. If he tried, it's also unfair to blame him for ultimately having to do what his boss wanted. Doesn't mean he cow tow's to Paul's every whim. In my experience as a working adult, sometimes you can disagree with your boss but your boss still gets their way, no matter what kind of logic you throw at them.

It wasn't an assumption, it was based on the quote:

"There was no dialogue, no consultation."

If the quote is accurate, it specifically states there was no conversation about the merits of retaining Crabbe. No discussion at all. And if Neil didn't at least raise the issue (which is what the quote claims), he is every bit as responsible for the Crabbe blunder as Paul Allen. If he raised the issue and Paul shot him down, he gets a pass. But the way the quote is written, he never even raised the issue.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Listening to this now...

 

[noknobs]

It wasn't an assumption, it was based on the quote:

"There was no dialogue, no consultation."

If the quote is accurate, it specifically states there was no conversation about the merits of retaining Crabbe. No discussion at all. And if Neil didn't at least raise the issue (which is what the quote claims), he is every bit as responsible for the Crabbe blunder as Paul Allen. If he raised the issue and Paul shot him down, he gets a pass. But the way the quote is written, he never even raised the issue.

BNM

Fair enough. That's not how I interpreted the quote but not worth arguing about.

 

[Scalma]

I'd rather have someone who is athletic enough to cover ground both vertically (for rim protection) and horizontally (to defend the pick and roll).

If guys like Vucevic and Nurkic are Neil's idea of a center, that goes a long way toward explaining why we have the worst defense in the league.

BNM

Oh so not robin Lopez? Vucevic has improved on defense and is already a great rebounder. Nurkic is inconsistent but he is very athletic for his size, good footwork, good hands. If we acquired either we can just have them sit back in the paint like we did with rolo.

And this is just defense. Both guys bring way more to the table offensively than Noel.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

If it's actually true they aren't interested in Noel or Cousins; I am OK with that; because I think our #1 target should be Serge Ibaka. If he tells Orlando he doesn't want to come back there, then he is gettable.

 

[illmatic99]

He knows nothing. And his article really revealed nothing of significance, and he's made a story (and career) out of speculation.

Amazing.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Oh so not robin Lopez? Vucevic has improved on defense and is already a great rebounder. Nurkic is inconsistent but he is very athletic for his size, good footwork, good hands. If we acquired either we can just have them sit back in the paint like we did with rolo.

And this is just defense. Both guys bring way more to the table offensively than Noel.

When we had Rolo, we also had Wes Matthews and Nic Batum defending the perimeter.

We no longer have that, so we can't just allow our center to sit back in the paint.

Our two best players are weak perimeter defenders. We need a more mobile center that is both great in defending the pick and roll (neither Vucevic or Nurkic qualify) that also provides rim protection. NOle is elite at both.

If we still had pre-ruptured Achilles Wes as our starting SG, I'd be all for Vucevic or Nurkic. We don't. Given our current personnel, Noel addresses our biggest weakness much more than a slow, lumbering, sit in the paint center.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

He knows nothing. And his article really revealed nothing of significance, and he's made a story (and career) out of speculation.

Amazing.

Haynes isnt much of a writer, but he's somehow always had good inside connections.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If it's actually true they aren't interested in Noel or Cousins; I am OK with that; because I think our #1 target should be Serge Ibaka. If he tells Orlando he doesn't want to come back there, then he is gettable.

He's actually #2 on my wet dream wish list. Personally, I'd go all in to get both Noel and Ibaka. With Ibaka's .393 3FG% he'd be perfect next to Noel on offense, perfect in Neil's system, and the two of them would give us TWO elite defending big men.

In today's 3-point happy NBA, Ibaka is the prototypical stretch 4 and Noel is the prototypical rim protecting, pick and roll defending center.

The two of them together would instantly turn our biggest weakness into a major strength.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

Haynes isnt much of a writer, but he's somehow always had good inside connections.

Half his responses in his interview just now started with "I don't know..."

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Here's my summary of the Haynes interview on 1080. As @yuyuza1 said, it's full of speculation.

D&S: Why would they be scared of losing one of the UFA's for Howard?
Haynes: Injury history (Back, knee), and then character. Don't know for a fact, but that was probably an issue. I do know for a fact that character has been a major concern for Olshey since he joined the Blazers, primarily after the Felton/Crawford era, and then the Jailblazers prior to that.

D&S: You wrote about Festus practicing then shutting it down. You say some in the org are puzzled by that move. did he decide that independently?
Haynes: Caught org by surprise. He feels he needs to get this done, but he has practiced and players say he looked good and had no swelling. The org saw no setbacks or signs, but then all of a sudden he's shutting himself down. They knew he was a gamble, but they thought he'd play 55 games.

D&S: How concerned should fans be about the team's chemistry?
Haynes: I don't think they should be concerned. Festus isn't playing, so that little riff w/CJ isn't a problem. The guys who are playing are tight, Dame's a great leader. The Festus element has been puzzling, a nuisance, but the chemistry overall is good.

D&S: You mentioned that Noel and Cousins aren't on Olshey's radar. Does that surprise you with Portland's interior struggles?
Haynes: No, because as I mentioned, Olshey cares about character. This team is very young, so they ahve to be very diligent about who they add to the locker room. But if they want to bring in a big piece, CJ's going to have to be included. And would that deal put you at the SA/GSW level? I don't think it does.

D&S: You mention the Dame/CJ part. How bad would it need to go before the FO considers breaking up Dame/CJ?
Haynes: If they're still outside the top 8 when approaching the deadline, I think you have to consider it, even with guys of questionable character. But I didn't get the sense that they're in any rush to make any move because they don't have the sense that any deal will elevate them to contender status.

D&S: Do they regret not signing Rolo?
Haynes: You have to look at that. I don't know. You also have to look at the Will Barton trade. You can make the case that he's better than Turner. You can look at moves that seem like they didn't work. I bashed the Turner signing. But these are the players that they have.

D&S: Team is young, but Dame is the leader. At some point, don't you need to trust the leaders in the locker room to be able to be a positive influence on a player of questionable character?
Haynes: At a certain time, but I don't know if that time is now. Dame is developing into a solid leader, but I don't know if you'd put him as one of the top leaders in this league. He's a leader, but I wouldn't really consider him a veteran. So as far as moves go, you're probably not looking at anything more than a minor move this season.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Half his responses in his interview just now started with "I don't know..."

Honest AND accurate. Somehow, I have new found respect for Chris Haynes.

BNM

P.S. But, just a LITTLE bit.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Yeah, if I could trade Meyers and Turner for Howard today, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I still doubt that he would have chosen Portland over his hometown, but if it were to come out that we would have signed Dwight had we renounced MyLe, I'm going to fall into a deep depression.

I wouldn't trade Ezeli for Howard straight across. I will not root for a team with that shithead on it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Here's my summary of the Haynes interview on 1080. As @yuyuza1 said, it's full of speculation.

D&S: Why would they be scared of losing one of the UFA's for Howard?
Haynes: Injury history (Back, knee), and then character. Don't know for a fact, but that was probably an issue. I do know for a fact that character has been a major concern for Olshey since he joined the Blazers, primarily after the Felton/Crawford era, and then the Jailblazers prior to that.

D&S: You wrote about Festus practicing then shutting it down. You say some in the org are puzzled by that move. did he decide that independently?
Haynes: Caught org by surprise. He feels he needs to get this done, but he has practiced and players say he looked good and had no swelling. The org saw no setbacks or signs, but then all of a sudden he's shutting himself down. They knew he was a gamble, but they thought he'd play 55 games.

D&S: How concerned should fans be about the team's chemistry?
Haynes: I don't think they should be concerned. Festus isn't playing, so that little riff w/CJ isn't a problem. The guys who are playing are tight, Dame's a great leader. The Festus element has been puzzling, a nuisance, but the chemistry overall is good.

D&S: You mentioned that Noel and Cousins aren't on Olshey's radar. Does that surprise you with Portland's interior struggles?
Haynes: No, because as I mentioned, Olshey cares about character. This team is very young, so they ahve to be very diligent about who they add to the locker room. But if they want to bring in a big piece, CJ's going to have to be included. And would that deal put you at the SA/GSW level? I don't think it does.

D&S: You mention the Dame/CJ part. How bad would it need to go before the FO considers breaking up Dame/CJ?
Haynes: If they're still outside the top 8 when approaching the deadline, I think you have to consider it, even with guys of questionable character. But I didn't get the sense that they're in any rush to make any move because they don't have the sense that any deal will elevate them to contender status.

D&S: Do they regret not signing Rolo?
Haynes: You have to look at that. I don't know. You also have to look at the Will Barton trade. You can make the case that he's better than Turner. You can look at moves that seem like they didn't work. I bashed the Turner signing. But these are the players that they have.

D&S: Team is young, but Dame is the leader. At some point, don't you need to trust the leaders in the locker room to be able to be a positive influence on a player of questionable character?
Haynes: At a certain time, but I don't know if that time is now. Dame is developing into a solid leader, but I don't know if you'd put him as one of the top leaders in this league. He's a leader, but I wouldn't really consider him a veteran. So as far as moves go, you're probably not looking at anything more than a minor move this season.

Thanks!

On the character issue, all of Noel's problems occurred before he turned 21. He's still very young, and in the right environment, with a strong leader he respects, like Dame, I think he's totally redeemable.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

Honest AND accurate. Somehow, I have new found respect for Chris Haynes.

BNM

P.S. But, just a LITTLE bit.

Really? I went the exact opposite way. Always thought of him as a hack who made typo-filled stories about nothing. This article and interview made him seem like even more of a dumbass to me. He didn't answer a single question with any sort of conviction.

 

[BonesJones]

Here's my summary of the Haynes interview on 1080. As @yuyuza1 said, it's full of speculation.

D&S: Why would they be scared of losing one of the UFA's for Howard?
Haynes: Injury history (Back, knee), and then character. Don't know for a fact, but that was probably an issue. I do know for a fact that character has been a major concern for Olshey since he joined the Blazers, primarily after the Felton/Crawford era, and then the Jailblazers prior to that.

D&S: You wrote about Festus practicing then shutting it down. You say some in the org are puzzled by that move. did he decide that independently?
Haynes: Caught org by surprise. He feels he needs to get this done, but he has practiced and players say he looked good and had no swelling. The org saw no setbacks or signs, but then all of a sudden he's shutting himself down. They knew he was a gamble, but they thought he'd play 55 games.

D&S: How concerned should fans be about the team's chemistry?
Haynes: I don't think they should be concerned. Festus isn't playing, so that little riff w/CJ isn't a problem. The guys who are playing are tight, Dame's a great leader. The Festus element has been puzzling, a nuisance, but the chemistry overall is good.

D&S: You mentioned that Noel and Cousins aren't on Olshey's radar. Does that surprise you with Portland's interior struggles?
Haynes: No, because as I mentioned, Olshey cares about character. This team is very young, so they ahve to be very diligent about who they add to the locker room. But if they want to bring in a big piece, CJ's going to have to be included. And would that deal put you at the SA/GSW level? I don't think it does.

D&S: You mention the Dame/CJ part. How bad would it need to go before the FO considers breaking up Dame/CJ?
Haynes: If they're still outside the top 8 when approaching the deadline, I think you have to consider it, even with guys of questionable character. But I didn't get the sense that they're in any rush to make any move because they don't have the sense that any deal will elevate them to contender status.

D&S: Do they regret not signing Rolo?
Haynes: You have to look at that. I don't know. You also have to look at the Will Barton trade. You can make the case that he's better than Turner. You can look at moves that seem like they didn't work. I bashed the Turner signing. But these are the players that they have.

D&S: Team is young, but Dame is the leader. At some point, don't you need to trust the leaders in the locker room to be able to be a positive influence on a player of questionable character?
Haynes: At a certain time, but I don't know if that time is now. Dame is developing into a solid leader, but I don't know if you'd put him as one of the top leaders in this league. He's a leader, but I wouldn't really consider him a veteran. So as far as moves go, you're probably not looking at anything more than a minor move this season.

So Festus shut himself down when he didn't have any swelling or setbacks? What?? That pisses me off if he could go and didn't want to, then decides to give speeches at halftime about how everyone else is playing. Maybe that's why CJ got pissed.