Trade Ben Simmons poll (1 Viewer)

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What's the most you would give up for Ben Simmons?

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I wouldn't offer anything more than just CJ for Simmons after his performance in the plsyoffs. And TBH I would rather keep CJ or use him in another trade
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
I wouldn't offer anything more than just CJ for Simmons after his performance in the plsyoffs. And TBH I would rather keep CJ or use him in another trade
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Wow, taking one series and throwing out all of the promise of a player. I don't think that makes for a very good evaluation. Simmons is quite possibly the best defensive player in the league. I know we've spent 9 years acting like defense wasn't that important but it is. Then on offense he's a great ball handler, passer, slasher and finisher. He's also basically a seven footer. So yeah, I think he's worth CJ plus more assets and that's with what he brought to this point in his career. To expect he'll only bring the worst he's ever played isn't very logical.
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
I wouldn't offer anything more than just CJ for Simmons after his performance in the plsyoffs. And TBH I would rather keep CJ or use him in another trade
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I would rather go with Utnapishtim. Simmons is more worth than just CJ (of course I would appreciate it if they just would swap both) not just due to his defense and playmaking skills but also because of his upside (especially the playoff performance's show that (next to his missing shooting skills which are maybe difficult to train) he lacked some confidence which is a problem Blazers can overcome easily - and having Simmons with some confidence is better than CJ). But I can understand why you have some doubts in Simmons.
 
I love the draft. Even getting a low first round pick. An extra one is awesome! With that said, 2 non-lottery picks for RoCo? I was happy with that and am looking for better from him next season. CJ +2 non-lottery or protected top 9 picks for Simmons? I haven't been a big Simmons fan for a few reasons, but the Dame-effect on players has me all in with him.
 
all this talk about how bad Simmons was in the playoffs, and how he's only worth CJ, and maybe a little more, because of that playoff performance

so then, in the playoffs this year:

PER: CJ 12.8....Simmons 18.1
TS%: CJ .518....Simmons .562
eFG%: CJ .500....Simmons .621
reb rate: CJ 8.7%....Simmons 13.0%
assist rate: CJ 17.0%....Simmons 35.7%
assist/turnover: CJ 2.15....Simmons 3.83
winshares/48: CJ .007....Simmons .173
BPM: CJ -3.3....Simmons +4.3

as flawed as his playoff performance was, he had a statistically better playoff performance than CJ, and the gaps were actually huge across the board

I'd guess I wonder why the playoff performance of Simmons so dramatically impacted his value while the performance of CJ didn't?
 
I'd say because CJ had a bad series, while with Ben, it exposed some potentially very big flaws in his game that has many questioning fit with different types of other players.
 
RR7 said:
I'd say because CJ had a bad series, while with Ben, it exposed some potentially very big flaws in his game that has many questioning fit with different types of other players.
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Is that all it is? Good thing there are no fit issues with CJ or flaws in his game...
 
wizenheimer said:
all this talk about how bad Simmons was in the playoffs, and how he's only worth CJ, and maybe a little more, because of that playoff performance

so then, in the playoffs this year:

PER: CJ 12.8....Simmons 18.1
TS%: CJ .518....Simmons .562
eFG%: CJ .500....Simmons .621
reb rate: CJ 8.7%....Simmons 13.0%
assist rate: CJ 17.0%....Simmons 35.7%
assist/turnover: CJ 2.15....Simmons 3.83
winshares/48: CJ .007....Simmons .173
BPM: CJ -3.3....Simmons +4.3

as flawed as his playoff performance was, he had a statistically better playoff performance than CJ, and the gaps were actually huge across the board

I'd guess I wonder why the playoff performance of Simmons so dramatically impacted his value while the performance of CJ didn't?
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These numbers are skewed by the fact we lost 4 out of 6 snd the Sixers won two rounds. Simmons was absolutely awfukl in the plsyoffs, so awful that the sixers want to trade him. We don't HAVE to trade for Simmons and it would be a bad place to start negotiation when you overrate him so much
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
These numbers are skewed by the fact we lost 4 out of 6 snd the Sixers won two rounds. Simmons was absolutely awfukl in the plsyoffs, so awful that the sixers want to trade him. We don't HAVE to trade for Simmons and it would be a bad place to start negotiation when you overrate him so much
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So then, CJ was so awful that the Blazers want to trade him with the same logic. He's a three time all-star and all NBA guy. Of course people are excited about trading for him.
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
These numbers are skewed by the fact we lost 4 out of 6 snd the Sixers won two rounds. Simmons was absolutely awfukl in the plsyoffs, so awful that the sixers want to trade him. We don't HAVE to trade for Simmons and it would be a bad place to start negotiation when you overrate him so much
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I don't overrate him

I just think talking about CJ and Simmons having similar value is nuts
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
These numbers are skewed by the fact we lost 4 out of 6 snd the Sixers won two rounds. Simmons was absolutely awfukl in the plsyoffs, so awful that the sixers want to trade him. We don't HAVE to trade for Simmons and it would be a bad place to start negotiation when you overrate him so much
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Is that really true?
Why don't you go compare both of their career numbers in the playoffs then? Here's a quick hint.... (it isn't any better for CJ)
 
CJ could at least stay on the floor in the playoffs and the Sixers looked much better with Maxey than with Simmons regardless of FT shooting. If we want to trade CJ we better bring back a good player, Simmons for CJ straight up could be decrnt value but there's no need to overhype him
 
RR7 said:
I'd say because CJ had a bad series, while with Ben, it exposed some potentially very big flaws in his game that has many questioning fit with different types of other players.
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I understand that, even though, as noted, CJ has issues with flaws and fit too

I was just wondering how it was that Simmons is drowning under a tsunami to of criticism for his playoffs, relative to CJ, who just got his legs wet for a much worse performance

by the way, for Philly, in the playoffs, Simmons was 3rd in PER, winshares/48, BPM, and VORP, while posting a very respectable .561 TS% and more than doubling any other 76er is assist rate. For sure there were flaws to his performance, but just as surely, Simmons became the scapegoat for Philly's failure
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
CJ could at least stay on the floor in the playoffs and the Sixers looked much better with Maxey than with Simmons regardless of FT shooting.
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if that was actually true, Simmons would not have had a +4.3 BPM while Maxey had a -1.2. That's a 5.5 points/100-possessions differential and that's a huge gap, especially considering Maxey only averaged 13 minutes
 
You're using statistics no one understands and they're certainly skewed becsuse from what I've seen, Simmons was absolutely horrendous. If you watched the playoffs I can't see how you disagree. The Sixers fans burnt his jersey for god's sake
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
You're using statistics no one understands and they're certainly skewed becsuse from what I've seen, Simmons was absolutely horrendous. If you watched the playoffs I can't see how you disagree. The Sixers fans burnt his jersey for god's sake
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Although I don't totally disagree with you, Simmons was pretty trash in the playoffs, I don't think the Philadelphia fans are a good bellwether for almost anything.
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
You're using statistics no one understands and they're certainly skewed becsuse from what I've seen, Simmons was absolutely horrendous. If you watched the playoffs I can't see how you disagree. The Sixers fans burnt his jersey for god's sake
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how hard is it to understand these stats? Most are fairly basic

upload_2021-7-27_15-17-58.png

upload_2021-7-27_15-18-26.png

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if you want something a little more basic, CJ averaged 1.09 points/shot; Simmons averaged 1.51

there is also the infamous on/off +/- stat that so many put stock in

for CJ:

upload_2021-7-27_15-28-23.png

for Simmons:

upload_2021-7-27_15-29-30.png

I watched Philly too and my take is that Simmons had about 3 bad stretches against against Atlanta and that's all that anybody is focused on
 
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ors-rejected-offer-for-lowry-vanvleet-anunoby

I'm not sure what to make of this and how it relates to a possible CJ trade:

Multiple sources confirmed Sunday that the Toronto Raptors have emerged as a team with 'significant' interest in Simmons. One source close to talks said discussions have not been substantial as of yet. Multiple sources including those close to talks said a proposed framework including Raptors guards Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the fourth overall pick in Thursday’s draft for Simmons was rejected by Toronto.
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Boise Blazer said:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ors-rejected-offer-for-lowry-vanvleet-anunoby

I'm not sure what to make of this and how it relates to a possible CJ trade:
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It means that Morey is trying to pump Simmons's value up by asking for preposterous returns so he can turn around and make a little less but still unreasonable request and get it. I don't think it will work and I still think CJ is the player they need. We'll see. The shit that you hear about usually isn't the shit that goes down (that's not supposed to have anything to do with plumbing).
 
blazerkor said:
It means that Morey is trying to pump Simmons's value up by asking for preposterous returns so he can turn around and make a little less but still unreasonable request and get it. I don't think it will work and I still think CJ is the player they need. We'll see. The shit that you hear about usually isn't the shit that goes down (that's not supposed to have anything to do with plumbing).
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Is Lowry under contract to be traded? Honestly I'd prefer Beal first and then Lowry depending on what else Toronto throws in for Philly. If we're stuck at just CJ and DJJ then I'm afraid we will be outbid but let's see.
 
AmirIcon said:
Is Lowry under contract to be traded? Honestly I'd prefer Beal first and then Lowry depending on what else Toronto throws in for Philly. If we're stuck at just CJ and DJJ then I'm afraid we will be outbid but let's see.
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Lowry would be a sign and trade in that deal so he does have that much value. I would prefer CJ over Lowry if I'm looking for scoring and someone who will be with the team for more than two seasons (when Lowry is moving like a geriatric). I would prefer CJ over Beal just because CJ would come with assets and Beal would cost the Sixers more than just Simmons... I think.
 
blazerkor said:
It means that Morey is trying to pump Simmons's value up by asking for preposterous returns so he can turn around and make a little less but still unreasonable request and get it. I don't think it will work and I still think CJ is the player they need. We'll see. The shit that you hear about usually isn't the shit that goes down (that's not supposed to have anything to do with plumbing).
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All of this crap is to try to recover some value on Simmons.
 
That proposal is crazy when you figure that they'd have to tamper with Lowry to agree to S&T, and then pick at #4 for Philly, and hope nothing happens where Lowry decides to go elsewhere. S&Ts with current year draft picks just don't happen.
 
Natebishop3 said:
All of this crap is to try to recover some value on Simmons.
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If this is for real, you give up whatever you have to in order to get Ben to play with Dame. I think that CJ and RoCo with future picks would get it done and keep Dame here... or because Nurk isn't the best fit with Ben you get the best value for him and send that with CJ and still probably some picks.
 
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