Trade Ben Simmons poll (1 Viewer)

[royo]

Why not trade for an All-NBA talent, runner-up for DPOY? The price is all that matters.

I love CJ game and I like him as a person. I would trade him, if I could, three seasons ago. Him or Dame. I'm not on the position to trade him tho
As I said before, I believe, CJ's value under Billups will grow and Ben's will go down.
With Dame being Dame, Powell makin 16 points in 12 mins it is logical to trade CJ for Ben. Not with 6 picks tho.

 

[illmatic99]

CJ and Simmons certainly are diametrically opposed.

Goldsberry stresses Simmons absurd lack of jumpers, but look at how many layups he's made!

what a useless figure. Not sure what that guy is trying to convey here

 

[wizenheimer]

Thats not the point. The point is less freedom and accountability with a new coach.

what does that mean?...really?

in the pre-season, in the two games CJ and Dame played, CJ played 5 fewer minutes but jacked up 5 more shots

in the 2 games of the regular season so far CJ is attempting 21.5 shots a game. That's almost 6 more than his career mark and about 3 more than his average since he became the starter. His current usage rate is 33.2% when his career mark is 26.1%; and his highest before this season is 27.5%. His current assist rate is the 2nd lowest of his career while his turnover rate is the highest since his rookie season. I don't see any restricted freedom or accountability there

He's shooting more and passing less. Yes, he's been hot as hell, but if there was actually less freedom for CJ in the new system, and more accountability, that would not matter a lot. And from the last 6 seasons, we know that as CJ inevitably cools off, his M.O. is not to shoot less

 

[Orion Bailey]

what does that mean?...really?

in the pre-season, in the two games CJ and Dame played, CJ played 5 fewer minutes but jacked up 5 more shots

in the 2 games of the regular season so far CJ is attempting 21.5 shots a game. That's almost 6 more than his career mark and about 3 more than his average since he became the starter. His current usage rate is 33.2% when his career mark is 26.1%; and his highest before this season is 27.5%. His current assist rate is the 2nd lowest of his career while his turnover rate is the highest since his rookie season. I don't see any restricted freedom or accountability there

He's shooting more and passing less. Yes, he's been hot as hell, but if there was actually less freedom for CJ in the new system, and more accountability, that would not matter a lot. And from the last 6 seasons, we know that as CJ inevitably cools off, his M.O. is not to shoot less

it means his history is somewhat irrelevant to those of us who want to see if Billups can hold him more accountable on defense? And if so… then his last 7 seasons WAS what cj is. Under a certain style/coaching.
And thats all.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Its not all about shooting. I dont think anyone minds his shooting. Its his defense that has long been the issue for many people, has it not?

 

[Idog1976]

Unless people think that Nassir Little will rise to a Mikail Bridges level, then I don’t see how they can think standing pat is a reasonable solution. Coaching matters but every champion with VERY few exceptions has had multiple top 10-20 players. We don't have that currently. We only have one. I know there have been anomalies, but usually those anomalies have a current or former MVP who is over 6’7”.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Ben is who he is. A VERY good defender, a very good passer, and excellent PnR playmaker, and a good post scorer, and he dominates the ball less than CJ in terms of 'fit' with Dame.

He does not shoot it well, and if he did, would be one of the top three players in the entire league.

As for his recent behavior, did anyone see any of this in any prior season? Or was it just when thinks went screwy, his Coach and team big man questioned how far they could go with him, and the Philly media mercilessly threw him under the bus.

So now I believe he is listening to the advice from Klutch to bring this thing to a finality. There is no history of any of this before this off-season.

Simmons had red flags in college. He doesn't have the determination and hustle of a superstar. He didn't have the negatives in prior NBA season as he does now, but he never had the positives attributes as young superstars had.

I was good trading CJ for Ben prior to the season. Now we've lost a critical month of integrating Ben into the team. I'd rather see how the team performs as is.

 

[wizenheimer]

I was good trading CJ for Ben prior to the season. Now we've lost a critical month of integrating Ben into the team. I'd rather see how the team performs as is.

if the Pistons would have had the same mindset in February of 2004 and declined a trade for Rasheed, they wouldn't have won their 3rd championship 4 months later

 

[wizenheimer]

Its not all about shooting. I dont think anyone minds his shooting. Its his defense that has long been the issue for many people, has it not?

right, that's why nobody ever calls him MeJ

 

[blazerkor]

CJ still monopolizes the ball far more than even Dame does. It's still MeJ shit. He has been putting in the effort on D for the first time ever which is cool and hopefully shows GMs that he's capable of doing that but we need size and athleticism on this roster and a player capable of being all nba elite... CJ isn't that, Ben obviously is.

When people like @WesleyMatthews say shit like Simmons "doesn't have the determination and hustle" I wonder if they've ever watched the guy play a game. He embodies determination and hustle on the defensive end and has been relegated to being a facilitator on offense but always does so with effort and movement. I wish people weren't such captives of the moment and could be real about this.

 

[Orion Bailey]

right, that's why nobody ever calls him MeJ

Okay. If you arent willing to address the fact that there is a new coach that might hold him responsible in ALL areas, we can agree to disagree

ive already seen a different CJ. Whether he stays the course will remain to be seen, but the thought thst he is what he is and wont change, is not making sense if we think a new coach can change/improve things.

 

[wizenheimer]

Okay. If you arent willing to address the fact that there is a new coach that might hold him responsible in ALL areas, we can agree to disagree.

there is a new coach....I have seen no evidence yet that there's a new CJ. If I start seeing that than I'd adjust my expectations

 

[Idog1976]

Okay. If you arent willing to address the fact that there is a new coach that might hold him responsible in ALL areas, we can agree to disagree

ive already seen a different CJ. Whether he stays the course will remain to be seen, but the thought thst he is what he is and wont change, is not making sense if we think a new coach can change/improve things.

Wizenheimer proved CJ is shooting MOAR, not less. Ergo, he is not being held accountable in terms of MeJ shooting. Perhaps he’s being held accountable on defense and that’s wonderful. If CJ is suddenly defending that helps us, but we still dont have the size and athleticism we need to deal with the deadly forwards in the league. Simmons also is the most versatile defender in the NBA and the only player in the league, who can defend 1-5 at an elite level.

 

[Idog1976]

I love CJ game and I like him as a person. I would trade him, if I could, three seasons ago. Him or Dame. I'm not on the position to trade him tho
As I said before, I believe, CJ's value under Billups will grow and Ben's will go down.
With Dame being Dame, Powell makin 16 points in 12 mins it is logical to trade CJ for Ben. Not with 6 picks tho.

Right the 3 picks plus 3 swaps is too high. I’m not sure I’d even do 2 picks and 2 swaps and if I did any picks that are post Dame contract, I would want them protected.

 

[Orion Bailey]

How do we know the coach didnt say keep shooting until you cool off? Dame was ice cold.

not sure the first two games are a good parameter of whether Cj has changed.
His defense has so it shows me he is listening to the coach.
Cj was on fire. Wouldn't it be logical for the coach to say keep shooting?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Wizenheimer proved CJ is shooting MOAR, not less. Ergo, he is not being held accountable in terms of MeJ shooting. Perhaps he’s being held accountable on defense and that’s wonderful. If CJ is suddenly defending that helps us, but we still dont have the size and athleticism we need to deal with the deadly forwards in the league. Simmons also is the most versatile defender in the NBA and the only player in the league, who can defend 1-5 at an elite level.

Nas and Nance.
Cj has no control of the small forward issue other than trading him. But im not sure why we cant bring powell off the bench when he gets back. Insert nas in the three and roll with that for a bit to see how it does.

 

[illmatic99]

Interesting culture they have within the org. The announcer is out of line.



This is also former Blazer Abdelnaby.

 

[Hoopguru]

there is a new coach....I have seen no evidence yet that there's a new CJ. If I start seeing that than I'd adjust my expectations

IMO, its been obvious over the years that Dame and CJ give each other the green light. Ive heard Dame talk about how they will from game to game be alert to each other and who's got it going regardless of how much dribbling goes on.
Once Powell is back, he'll be the one inheriting shots from CJ & Dame.

 

[TBpup]

Interesting culture they have within the org. The announcer is out of line.



This is also former Blazer Abdelnaby.

Sorry, that is just jackass commentary by the 6'ers announcers.

 

[Idog1976]

How do we know the coach didnt say keep shooting until you cool off? Dame was ice cold.

not sure the first two games are a good parameter of whether Cj has changed.
His defense has so it shows me he is listening to the coach.
Cj was on fire. Wouldn't it be logical for the coach to say keep shooting?

That’s a completely fair take. That said, I still do the trade if the Price is Right...Ben Simmons come on down!!!!

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Hell no.

….do you think the Blazer package is too weak for Philly???

 

[TBpup]

That’s a completely fair take. That said, I still do the trade if the Price is Right...Ben Simmons come on down!!!!

Ben still provides 2 things the Blazers don't have. A VERY good 1-on-1 defender of multiple positions, AND someone who can be a legit playmaker when Dame inevitably gets double-teamed. Regardless of what we look like in the regular season, both of those things will be very valuable come playoff time. We have plenty of people who can score. In fact, CJ is taking (and making right now) shots from other players you would like to see get more attempts.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

if the Pistons would have had the same mindset in February of 2004 and declined a trade for Rasheed, they wouldn't have won their 3rd championship 4 months later

Rasheed led a team to two WCF and was elite on both sides of the ball. He was traded for a bunch of draft picks and bench players.

Simmons has major question marks on the offensive end, while costing the Blazers their second best player.

If we can land Simmons for picks and bench players I'm all for it. Giving up CJ has a lot of downside.

 

[Orion Bailey]

if the Pistons would have had the same mindset in February of 2004 and declined a trade for Rasheed, they wouldn't have won their 3rd championship 4 months later

flawed logic. Pistons didn't give up their second best player in the trade. Wallace, Billups nor hamilton were moved in exchanged for Rasheed.

 

[Idog1976]

flawed logic. Pistons didn't give up their second best player in the trade. Wallace, Billups nor hamilton were moved in exchanged for Rasheed.

Are you suggesting that CJ is better than Simmons?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Are you suggesting that CJ is better than Simmons?

no im saying that using the 2004 pistons trade for Rasheed is not a good comparison to the current situation. The pistons never gave up a key player. Cj is a key player for the blazers. Second best player.

 

[TBpup]

no im saying that using the 2004 pistons trade for Rasheed is not a good comparison to the current situation. The pistons never gave up a key player. Cj is a key player for the blazers. Second best player.

He may be the 2nd best player....but where is that getting the team? Lest we forget the also-ran substitue back court on the team that beat the Blazers in the Playoffs last year. CJ was better than any guard they had....and yet it did nothing for us as a team.

 

[Orion Bailey]

He may be the 2nd best player....but where is that getting the team? Lest we forget the also-ran substitue back court on the team that beat the Blazers in the Playoffs last year. CJ was better than any guard they had....and yet it did nothing for us as a team.

We know where it got the team in the past. Ut ive seen Billups instill significant changes on the defensive end, which i think was his priority. He knows ww. An score. Not an issue. Get the defense dialed in. Then improve the offense.
And btw. Cjs play? It helped us get maybe the best win, from start to finish, we have seen since the LMA days.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@TBpup dont get me weong. Cj for Simmons straight up? Id likely do it but with each viewing of the game it could be that i turn less and less into a fan of bringing Simmons over. Im wanting to give Billups some time.

 

[TBpup]

@TBpup dont get me weong. Cj for Simmons straight up? Id likely do it but with each viewing of the game it could be that i turn less and less into a fan of bringing Simmons over. Im wanting to give Billups some time.

I want to see what happens as well, but at the same time, we've seen this movie so many times, we can recite it by heart. 2 games does not change 6+ years worth of data at 30 years old. Yes, scheme can help....especially since Stotts' was so poor IMO, that that doesn't make CJ grow, or make him more athletic.

And on offense, he is being MeJ even more than last year. Now granted, he is hitting a ton of shots, and that is great, but that style just doesn't work long term. It hasn't, and I don't know that Billups has any magic fairy dust that will suddenly make historical changes to that.