Trade Ben Simmons poll (2 Viewers)

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What's the most you would give up for Ben Simmons?

  • Total voters
    145
illmatic99 said:
Still think they value Kuminga a lot more than that. Maybe they do that with Wiggins, but not Draymond + Kuminga/Wiseman.

That said, I would hesitate at a CJ-Draymond exchange. Think Green has the potential of falling off a cliff in productivity given his age and mileage (esp playoff miles). And his lack of scoring is a lot more apparent than Ben's. ESPN projecting 8 wins fewer with that trade is hard to dismiss for me.
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I would not trade CJ for Green, I agree with your points. Hustle defensive players don't age well in their 30's, think of Ben Wallace. CJ could age well as CP3 has.

CJ for Simmons I'm interested in although its certainly not 100% that we get better.
 
42N8Bounce said:
Sure. I guess it all comes down to how you define 'feasible'. Possible, yes. Likely, no.

My point came from when @sheed30 was comparing the value of Green and Simmons. I believe CJs value is pretty close to the value of Green. I believe Simmons value is a step above that. How big of a 'step' is the question.
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Simmons value is clearly higher than Green IMO. I don't like Green on that contract. I think I'd rather have Roco, Nurk, or Powell than Green now that I think about it.
 
Interesting that ESPN rankings put Simmons (#28) only two spots higher than CJ (#30). That doesn’t feel like a lot of ‘filler’ is needed. All of that filler would be based on future potential/age.

(A couple other rankings that jumped out were Green at ##37, and Siakam #38.)
 
42N8Bounce said:
Interesting that ESPN put Simmons (#28) only two spots higher than CJ (#30). That doesn’t feel like a lot of ‘filler’ is needed. All of that filler would be based on future potential/age.

(A couple other rankings that jumped out were Green at ##37, and Siakam #38.)
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Ben has more value than CJ in that yes he is much younger, but also he has potential to improve. He can improve both in a different situation that better utilizes his skills and he can improve as he ages. While CJ might improve on a team without Dame, at age 30 he doesn't have near the upside.

Siakam has injury issues, he was ranked #14 the prior year.

Green might be a good pick if all that mattered were a few months of basketball such as the Olympic team. But on a long term contract and for multiple seasons there are far better options.
 
sheed30 said:
When you think of clutch, you don’t this if all those rubbish stats you just posted. None of those stats above are a indication of someone being clutch, some people are just straight ignorant on here
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I'm going to try and give you the benefit of the doubt....mainly because I know I can come across as disagreeable at times too, and most here have given me the benefit of the doubt. They've also give me lots of shit but that's fine...water off a duck

but for fucksakes do you have to come in to so many discussions so damn hot? I've seen the arguments you are making. Honestly, you should avoid calling others ignorant

as far as those screenshots I posted...do tell. Explain to me what "you" think of when you think of clutch
 
42N8Bounce said:
Interesting that ESPN rankings put Simmons (#28) only two spots higher than CJ (#30). That doesn’t feel like a lot of ‘filler’ is needed. All of that filler would be based on future potential/age.

(A couple other rankings that jumped out were Green at ##37, and Siakam #38.)
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SI ranked CJ @38, Ben @31, Draymond @ 35, and Siakam @ 44

Salary rankings for 21-22:
7. Dame -43.7 mil (that supermax kicking in!)
25. Simmons - 31.5 mil
29. Siakam - 31.3 mil
31. CJ- 30.9 mil
48. Draymond - 24 mil

(This is why I pushback when people bitch about CJ's contract. He's paid about what he's worth. He's neither overperforming nor underperforming it. The problem.... is when you spend 75 mil on backcourt that has largely the same skills, you struggle to build the rest of the roster.)
 
illmatic99 said:
(This is why I pushback when people bitch about CJ's contract. He's paid about what he's worth. He's neither overperforming nor underperforming it. The problem.... is when you spend 74 mil on backcourt that has largely the same skills, you struggle to build the rest of the roster. )
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each off-season, as more new contracts are signed with the higher salary caps, CJ's contract is relatively 'better' in comparison to other contracts

but as you pointed out, it's more the placement of the contract, all the air it takes out of Portland's flexibility while being the biggest impediment to balancing the roster. It's the biggest Blazer issue; paying that much for a back court that is so small, quite redundant, and plays poor defense.

by the way, SI is wrong about Dame's salary this season: it's 39.345M

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers//cap
 
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Simmons gives you superstar potential and eventually if Dame wants traded you can build around Simmons. Getting him is no brainer even if you have to give up a couple of first. Really hoping we can pull this off my fear is Denver or GS will end up getting him.
 
wizenheimer said:
each off-season, as more new contracts are signed with the higher salary caps, CJ's contract is relatively 'better' in comparison to other contracts

but as you pointed out, it's more the placement of the contract and all the air it takes out of Portland's flexibility. It's the biggest Blazer issue paying that much for a back court that is so small, fairly redundant, and plays poor defense.
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We've seen how chasing free agents with cap room works for Portland. Enes Kanter and Roy Hibbert were matched by their teams, Chandler Parsons and Greg Monroe chose other teams, all 4 would've been shit if signed to such deals. Evan Turner was the big high dollar free agent we've signed. We've seen Neil give full MLE offers to guys such as Spencer Hawes who pick somewhere else to go, and the big addition we had was Derrick Jones Jr.

Now I do think the GM needs to consider value of contracts, the 2016 contracts screwed up this teams flexibility for years. It helps with trade options if contracts at least are equal value or better for the players. But these were secondary bench players signed in 2016, never a quality starter.

With a good starter or top 60 type of NBA Player pay them what their worth and keep them.

So if Portland had never given CJ the contract, what are they going to do with more salary cap flexibility? If they dumped him to a team with cap room next summer, what benefit are they going to get with that space? Maybe they could've used the full MLE this last summer without hitting luxury tax and got another Derrick Jones Jr level of player. I don't see how the CJ contract has hurt the construction of the team as many posters elude to.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
Simmons gives you superstar potential and eventually if Dame wants traded you can build around Simmons. Getting him is no brainer even if you have to give up a couple of first. Really hoping we can pull this off my fear is Denver or GS will end up getting him.
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Some noise about Denver on Twitter/Reddit following the Amico post last night, but I don't buy it. They don't have the contracts to trade having JUST signed Gordon/Barton. And I don't see them including Murray/Porter in any deals, while the fit with Jokic doesn't make much sense either. Think that's just smoke.

GS is out for me after the Lacob interview and they were my projected front runner. That is hard to walk back from given how vehemently and explicitly he seemed to be against Ben on the Warriors.

I think Minny/Indy/CLE/POR are the most likely destinations now.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
We've seen how chasing free agents with cap room works for Portland. Enes Kanter and Roy Hibbert were matched by their teams, Chandler Parsons and Greg Monroe chose other teams, all 4 would've been shit if signed to such deals. Evan Turner was the big high dollar free agent we've signed. We've seen Neil give full MLE offers to guys such as Spencer Hawes who pick somewhere else to go, and the big addition we had was Derrick Jones Jr.

Now I do think the GM needs to consider value of contracts, the 2016 contracts screwed up this teams flexibility for years. It helps with trade options if contracts at least are equal value or better for the players. But these were secondary bench players signed in 2016, never a quality starter.

With a good starter or top 60 type of NBA Player pay them what their worth and keep them.

So if Portland had never given CJ the contract, what are they going to do with more salary cap flexibility? If they dumped him to a team with cap room next summer, what benefit are they going to get with that space? Maybe they could've used the full MLE this last summer without hitting luxury tax and got another Derrick Jones Jr level of player. I don't see how the CJ contract has hurt the construction of the team as many posters elude to.
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I wasn't talking about free agency

I was talking about CJ and Olshey's infatuation with him and how that limits flexibility

and I know the theory is that Portland could add a 3rd all-star level contract. So far, it's a bullshit theory because they haven't in 7 years, and they have not had, and do not have the assets to land that 2nd all-star talent without including CJ. Catch-22
 
42N8Bounce said:
I think GSW has already said they’re not interested in Simmons, but many people have thrown out 3-way trade ideas such as:
* Blazers send out McCollum and get Green from GSW.
* GSW sends out Green and filler/picks and gets Simmons from Philly.
* Philly sends out Simmons and gets McCollum from Blazers and filler/picks from GSW.

Hence my reference that I'd be okay with an even swap of McCollum and Green.

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Yes, but the question I always ask is, why would we want to rejuvenate the Warriors and make them a much better team, while barely improving ours in comparison. Green < Simmons now and especially a year from now and that gulf will only widen for the next 7 years until Green is out of the league. Meanwhile, Ben even if he plateaus is already much, much better. Green is at an age where we may see a dramatic dropoff in production as soon as this year. His fire and attitude go from being a Boon when attached to a top shelf DPOY guy to being a potential locker room cancer as he ages and his body isn't able to cash the checks his mouth is writing. Unlike Simmons, I don't see Green backing down from anyone, not even Dame. Whereas Dame can get Simmons head straight because Dame is clearly the Alpha. This would be a move that we regretted for years and that regret would start next year as GSW would undoubtedly fly past us on the rankings and destroy us 3 times a year or heaven forbid 7. Simmons is one of the few guys in the league that really bothers Dame. Yet another reason I want him. Green has another year or two tops in the tank before he's a marginal role player.
 
illmatic99 said:
Doc Rivers keeps digging. So much for better PR. Pretty hilarious watching that team sabotage Ben's trade value every week.

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Wow, that's amazing on so many levels! What a terrible comparison especially in the Black American community my god.
 
illmatic99 said:
Some noise about Denver on Twitter/Reddit following the Amico post last night, but I don't buy it. They don't have the contracts to trade having JUST signed Gordon/Barton. And I don't see them including Murray/Porter in any deals, while the fit with Jokic doesn't make much sense either. Think that's just smoke.

GS is out for me after the Lacob interview and they were my projected front runner. That is hard to walk back from given how vehemently and explicitly he seemed to be against Ben on the Warriors.

I think Minny/Indy/CLE/POR are the most likely destinations now.
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Denver makes no sense at all. Simmons and Jokic wouldn't vibe. Murray is a much better fit next to Jokic.
 
illmatic99 said:
Doc Rivers keeps digging. So much for better PR. Pretty hilarious watching that team sabotage Ben's trade value every week.

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holy shit!

what is the play here for Philly? If they actually want Simmons to report to TC, that's about the worst way to get it done.

it's like they want him to boycott the team so they can not pay him. But that would further trash his trade value. Makes no sense....unless of course Doc is just an idiot
 
wizenheimer said:
holy shit!

what is the play here for Philly? If they actually want Simmons to report to TC, that's about the worst way to get it done.

it's like they want him to boycott the team so they can not pay him. But that would further trash his trade value. Makes no sense....unless of course Doc is just an idiot
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I know I'm a bit in awe of how you could be that tone-deaf. Man, can we actually pull this off for a reasonable price? They are eviscerating his value it's just kinda magical.
 
Yeah this doesn't help if they wanted to increase the chance Ben reports.

Reminds me of Embiid statement seemingly to defend Simmons, that people shouldn't criticism Ben, but then says he (Embiid) can handle criticism, implying Ben is weak. So the whole statement comes off as more insulting than supporting.
 
illmatic99 said:
the video just makes it worse

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I love it when people finally get mad enough to say what they really think!

The not so hidden message (IMHO) is that the real issue is the people around Simmons. Would it really surprise anyone if that were true?
 
Buffalo Custard said:
I love it when people finally get mad enough to say what they really think!

The not so hidden message (IMHO) is that the real issue is the people around Simmons. Would it really surprise anyone if that were true?
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Oh yeah thats a well known fact. This is incredible if you’re in the trade for Simmons on the cheap camp. This is great news as it just nukes the site from orbit. Comparing an NBA player’s family to Trump supporters who still think Trump will pull off the win? Just wow. I cant even lampoon that without being even more offensive. Just unreal.
 
42N8Bounce said:
I think GSW has already said they’re not interested in Simmons, but many people have thrown out 3-way trade ideas such as:
* Blazers send out McCollum and get Green from GSW.
* GSW sends out Green and filler/picks and gets Simmons from Philly.
* Philly sends out Simmons and gets McCollum from Blazers and filler/picks from GSW.

Hence my reference that I'd be okay with an even swap of McCollum and Green.

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If you were GS, why would you trade Green for CJ?
 
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