Billups makes no sense - Grant should not be starting

[Natebishop3]

How can Billups have such a short leash for Shaedon and Scoot, but then play Jerami Grant for the most minutes on the team?



This is simply unacceptable. He is one of the worst scorers on the team right now.



Based on things like Winshares he's not one of our top 5 best players .



He's the 10th best according to TS%



The starting lineup right now should be

Scoot
Simons
Tou
Deni
Ayton

Here's our 5 man rotations by +PTS


Here's what it looks like when you filter by minutes played together. Look at the 2nd and 3rd combos. If you take Grant out, that same lineup goes from -34.9 points to a +4.9 points.


Here is the On/Off
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2025/on-off/

Our team


Opponent



Here is overall

 

[Foxx]

I don’t even need to read all the diagrams, he flat out sucks on offense

 

[blazerfan11]

Nobody here wants Grant to start. There needs to be a protest at the Moda center.

 

[Mediocre Man]

 

[MickZagger]

Since*

 

[MickZagger]

Cronin makes less sense. Grant should not still be on this team. Nor Simons.

The objective should be never been to win a few more games just by riding vets that aren’t part of the big picture.

But I’ve been saying this ad naseum since before the year started

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Grant certainly looked shitty down the stretch last night, but in general the team's win streak has coincided with Grant being inserted into the starting lineup and Shaedon being consigned to the bench. Shaedon certainly needs somebody constantly on his case, as he plays sloppily and his defense is still atrocious. I don't think he should be rewarded by getting starters' minutes just in the hope he develops. He strikes me as a player that needs a short leash because he is too used to coasting.

Compare the +/- over the past ten games: Scoot has the right to complain a little (although Anfernee's the closest thing we currently have to somebody who could go off at any moment, and is the person the opposing defenses gang up on) but not Shaedon:

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Honestly, the only reason to be pissed at Chauncey lately is that we're winning too much. But I wouldn't trust a coach that was on board with tanking.

 

[Cugel]

 

[Natebishop3]

Grant certainly looked shitty down the stretch last night, but in general the team's win streak has coincided with Grant being inserted into the starting lineup and Shaedon being consigned to the bench. Shaedon certainly needs somebody constantly on his case, as he plays sloppily and his defense is still atrocious. I don't think he should be rewarded by getting starters' minutes just in the hope he develops. He strikes me as a player that needs a short leash because he is too used to coasting.

Compare the +/- over the past ten games: Scoot has the right to complain a little (although Anfernee's the closest thing we currently have to somebody who could go off at any moment, and is the person the opposing defenses gang up on) but not Shaedon:
View attachment 71173

Based on your own numbers, the starters should be:

Scoot
Simons
Tou
Deni
Ayton

 

[MickZagger]

Honestly, the only reason to be pissed at Chauncey lately is that we're winning too much. But I wouldn't trust a coach that was on board with tanking.

Even though said coach knows he’s auditioning for his next job?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Based on your own numbers, the starters should be:

Scoot
Simons
Tou
Deni
Ayton

Notice that they include two of the vets most people are bitching the loudest about. And you're assuming that Scoot and Simons would work well together - maybe both does best when he is the sole point? That's certainly been the problem with Anfernee over the years - he's just not as effective off the ball.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Even though said coach knows he’s auditioning for his next job?

That's such a weird accusation. Is he wearing a shirt that says "get me the fuck out of here"? Otherwise, if his "audition" includes coaching his current team really well, then what's the fucking problem?

 

[MickZagger]

That's such a weird accusation. Is he wearing a shirt that says "get me the fuck out of here"? Otherwise, if his "audition" includes coaching his current team really well, then what's the fucking problem?

Because it’s at the expense of the future of the team.

Let’s use these vets as bandaid’s to eke out a few more wins, to not only not make the playoffs, but make our draft pick even shittier. Oh joy!

The team never extended him. It’s obvious he won’t be here past the conclusion of his contract. So obviously he doesn’t want his reputation to be as a garbage coach. So we live with the Grant/Simons chuckfest show only to have the future hampered.

Not too difficult a concept, really.

 

[AldoTrapani]

Starting pretty much goes by salary.. everybody knows that

 

[inconceivable]

We are showcasing him to increase his value this summer

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

How can Billups have such a short leash for Shaedon and Scoot, but then play Jerami Grant for the most minutes on the team?

View attachment 71124

This is simply unacceptable. He is one of the worst scorers on the team right now.

View attachment 71125

Based on things like Winshares he's not one of our top 5 best players .

View attachment 71126

He's the 10th best according to TS%

View attachment 71127

The starting lineup right now should be

Scoot
Simons
Tou
Deni
Ayton

Here's our 5 man rotations by +PTS
View attachment 71128

Here's what it looks like when you filter by minutes played together. Look at the 2nd and 3rd combos. If you take Grant out, that same lineup goes from -34.9 points to a +4.9 points.
View attachment 71132

Here is the On/Off
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2025/on-off/

Our team
View attachment 71137

Opponent

View attachment 71139View attachment 71140

Here is overall
View attachment 71139View attachment 71142

Ayton is pretty bad also on the on/off stats.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Because it’s at the expense of the future of the team.

Look. There's a whole lot of questionable assumptions built into what you're saying.
1. Our current young players are "the future of the team". (Maybe. Maybe not. At the beginning of the season I would've said Shae, sure, Scoot, I doubt it. Now they've flipped.)
2. That just playing them as much as possible is good for them and us. Billups doesn't think so and I think he has good reasons. Maybe make young players earn it by playing the right way? Maybe make young players respect vets that know little tricks even if they don't have the same raw talent. This is not a new tactic by coaches, and for a good reason.
3. That we need to lose as much as possible to get as high a draft pick as possible, and this coincides with playing the young guys so it's a virtuous circle. If there was no lottery, sure. But there is, and it's usually NOT won by the worst team. And furthermore, sometimes winning the lottery fucks you over. Like, I don't know, getting the #1 and Oden, when if you'd stayed where you were you might very well have taken Joakim Noah.
4. That a coach should actually covertly not try to win because that will be good for the franchise. No, a coach should never not go all out to win. If you don't want your coach to win, you trade away his good players. That's the GM's fucking job.

 

[Cugel]

An NBA player should never go out there and phone it in, tanking or no tanking. Players don’t miss shots intentionally either. Billups is playing the hand Joe dealt him. The vets either get shut down, which nobody likes, or traded

 

[STOMP]

Cronin makes less sense. Grant should not still be on this team.

I've got to assume Joe was hookwinked by Dame potentially staying when his buddy was reupped in signing the initial deal because that was the only thing that made sense in real time. That was the FU flaming bag of poop Lillard left on the doorstep he exited the franchise. Once that deal was offered & signed though, it's been the longest of longshots that anyone would trade for him. As y'all may have noticed he's only a good player at best, yet he's paid like a regular All NBA player with a contract escalating into his mid-30s. Especially now with the new CBA, anyone thinking he should be moved is wishful thinking at best. Be realistic, anyone trading for him for anything that also isn't a salary cap anchor at the bottom of the NBA seas is going to have to explain why in the hell they'd do that

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've got to assume Joe was hookwinked by Dame potentially staying when his buddy was reupped in signing the initial deal because that was the only thing that made sense in real time. That was the FU flaming bag of poop Lillard left on the doorstep he exited the franchise. Once that deal was offered & signed though, it's been the longest of longshots that anyone would trade for him. As y'all may have noticed he's only a good player at best, yet he's paid like a regular All NBA player with a contract escalating into his mid-30s. Especially now with the new CBA, anyone thinking he should be moved is wishful thinking at best. Be realistic, anyone trading for him for anything that also isn't a salary cap anchor at the bottom of the NBA seas is going to have to explain why in the hell they'd do that

STOMP

This is how it always seemed to me as well. The timing of everything just seemed too much.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've got to assume Joe was hookwinked by Dame potentially staying when his buddy was reupped in signing the initial deal because that was the only thing that made sense in real time. That was the FU flaming bag of poop Lillard left on the doorstep he exited the franchise. Once that deal was offered & signed though, it's been the longest of longshots that anyone would trade for him. As y'all may have noticed he's only a good player at best, yet he's paid like a regular All NBA player with a contract escalating into his mid-30s. Especially now with the new CBA, anyone thinking he should be moved is wishful thinking at best. Be realistic, anyone trading for him for anything that also isn't a salary cap anchor at the bottom of the NBA seas is going to have to explain why in the hell they'd do that

STOMP

I think it’s Joe min/maxing value. He caught so much shit for the Norm trade. I think he refuses to lose assets for nothing. Even to the detriment of the team.

 

[wizenheimer]

Dame asked for a trade 10 days before the new deal with Grant was signed. I'd say Cronin considered trading for Grant his first significant success and was unwilling to concede failure by not re-signing Grant. Very similar to Olshey re-signing Powell to a 5 year deal

 

[AldoTrapani]

Starting goes by salary

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Dame asked for a trade 10 days before the new deal with Grant was signed. I'd say Cronin considered trading for Grant his first significant success and was unwilling to concede failure by not re-signing Grant. Very similar to Olshey re-signing Powell to a 5 year deal

That's not how I remember it - I thought Dame asked for a trade AFTER Grant's deal was agreed.

 

[STOMP]

This is how it always seemed to me as well. The timing of everything just seemed too much.

The point is though, no matter how much he might want to Joe CAN'T trade Grant unless it's for a similarly distressed asset which there are very few of leaguewide. Why posters continue to act like this is and has been a reasonable possibility thats just sitting on the table waiting for him to act on, let alone laughably suggest he's holding out for 1st round picks shows them to be clueless to whats at play here. It takes two to tango on a trade and no franchise has a good reason to show up to the Jerami trade dance no matter who is calling the shots for the PTB. No one will next offseason, or next trade deadline, etc... He's all ours which does suck, but thats reality going forward.

Heck, I'd love to see him off the books and wishfully entertained the thought that they might be able to move him for Middleton this past deadline following someone starting a thread on it. Grant being Dame's buddy made some sense for them & they need another forward to compete with their aging roster. Despite Khris seeming to be physically done as age and surgeries have robbed him of mobility, I suggested that Middleton's expiring deal was so much better an asset to hold that Portland would have to include draft capitol to sweeten the pot for the Bucks. Of course instead they shipped KM off for the selfish headcase that is Kyle Kuzma and his 10 PER. Compared to Grant though, Kuzma is a year younger & makes less then 2/3rds as much on a contract that expires a year earlier. While KK is a decidedly worse player to have on a roster then Grant IMO, he's much less of a financial anchor. He's a crappy asset for a franchise to hold, but Grant is worse

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

Dame asked for a trade 10 days before the new deal with Grant was signed. I'd say Cronin considered trading for Grant his first significant success and was unwilling to concede failure by not re-signing Grant. Very similar to Olshey re-signing Powell to a 5 year deal

That's not how I remember it - I thought Dame asked for a trade AFTER Grant's deal was agreed.

This is how I remember it as well. It was up in the air until after the draft. Then Dame demanded out. Grant was signed prior to the draft.

 

[e_blazer]

This is how I remember it as well. It was up in the air until after the draft. Then Dame demanded out. Grant was signed prior to the draft.

The Blazers reached an agreement with Grant on June 30th. Dame asked out on July 1st. Grant’s contract was signed July 9th.

(Edited to provide correct signing date for Grant)

 

[HansenYang]

The Blazers reached an agreement with Grant on June 30th. Dame asked out on July 1st. Grant’s contract was signed July 5th.

No proof, but I'd bet that Grant reached an agreement with the Blazers in February 2024.

 

[wizenheimer]

That's not how I remember it - I thought Dame asked for a trade AFTER Grant's deal was agreed.

the reports of Dame asking for at trade came out on July 1st and the gist was he'd asked for a trade at least a couple days earlier, shortly after the Scoot selection and no draft day trades

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...il-blazers-star-damian-lillard-requests-trade
https://www.si.com/nba/2023/07/01/damian-lillard-requests-trade-portland-trail-blazers

Grant signed his deal on July 9



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