Black People can't be racist (2 Viewers)

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I would hope humanity would identify with a progressive movement away from racial tensions and it will take education and cooperation for us to plant those seeds and maintain a healthier society for future generations. I also am proud of the steps we've made even though it's a work in progress. Being able to discuss it here is a really good thing.
 
You can tell from dviss1's reaction that it is how it's coming across.

He's said a few times that idiot police who harass anyone need to be dealt with. But you getting a jaywalking ticket and him getting stopped in the park while jogging, and for no good reason, are not equivalent.

Dviss1 misinterprets what people here are saying and then overreacts. I'm not going to change my opinion just because someone gets irrationally offended by harmless comments.
 
Black guy has a white guy jump in his car. He uses his concealed handgun to hold he guy until the cops arrive. There was zero issue with the police. They even shake his hand.

 
Any black person born after December 6, 1865 were never slaves either.

Maybe we can stop playing that card?

No, we can't stop playing that "card."

This is for the irish guy.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/‘irish-slaves’-convenient-myth

The conflation of indentured servitude with chattel slavery in the ‘Irish slaves’ narrative whitewashes history in the service of Irish nationalist and white supremacist causes. Its resurgence in the wake of Ferguson reflects many Americans’ denial of the entrenched racism still prevalent in their society.

Read it.


As for Indians...

They were friends with the white man for centuries before Grant's time. There were tensions, sure, but until the massacres of the 1800s, they were overall friends with white settlers.

The massacres and other mistreatment of the indians were a horrible part of our history and should not be viewed as acceptable (or whatever) by any stretch.

That said, when herded onto reservations, they were FREE. The government made treaties with them, even if they failed to live up to them. The indians were allowed to govern themselves. The treatment was not of slaves, nor was there a long history of Jim Crow directed at them.

From day 1, european governments treated the indians like sovereign nations. And to this day, the USA still does. Along with native hawaiians, they are considered nations within our nation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_recognition_in_the_United_States

Native American recognition in the United States most often refers to the process of a tribe being recognized by the United States federal government, or to a person being granted membership to a federally recognized tribe. There are 566 federally recognized tribal governments in the United States. Non-Acknowledged Tribes are tribes which have no federal designation as sovereign entities. Federally Non-Recognized tribes refers to a subgroup of non-acknowledged tribes which had some sort of recognition by the British prior to the formation of the United States or by the United States but which were determined by the government to no longer exist as an Indian tribe or no longer meet the criteria for a nation to nation status.[1][2][3]

The United States recognizes the right of these tribes to self-government and supports their tribal sovereignty and self-determination.
 
Denny, you can find things on Google to support your stances always. Go check out the book "white cargo"

And I think having ancestors that actually went through these things kinda trumps whatever link you provide. But I'm sure you'll beg to differ. But keep on keeping on. I wouldn't expect any less from you
 
As for Indians...

They were friends with the white man for centuries before Grant's time. There were tensions, sure, but until the massacres of the 1800s, they were overall friends with white settlers.

The massacres and other mistreatment of the indians were a horrible part of our history and should not be viewed as acceptable (or whatever) by any stretch.

That said, when herded onto reservations, they were FREE. The government made treaties with them, even if they failed to live up to them. The indians were allowed to govern themselves. The treatment was not of slaves, nor was there a long history of Jim Crow directed at them.

From day 1, european governments treated the indians like sovereign nations. And to this day, the USA still does. Along with native hawaiians, they are considered nations within our nation.

Almost every treaty the USA government made with the Indians was broken, by the USA government.

In recent times, there have been many disputes over Indian treaty rights. After many decades of the USA government abusing treaty rights, the Indians have learned to use our legal system to defend their rights. The Indians have won almost ever legal battle to maintain their treaty rights.

The fight by the Native American Indians to maintain rights granted to them in treaties is still being fought to this day.

Also, after the USA government took the land from the Indians, the Native American Indian children where forced to attend schools that did not allow them to speak their native language. Even their native names where taken away and replaced with Euro names. That is not freedom.


Fact: The USA government waged war on the Native American Indians, the longest war in USA history.

Are you saying genocide is better than slavery?
 
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Ask native Americans and Hawaiians if they feel like a "nation within our nation" and you'd likely get your ass kicked
 
What about all of those Japanese and Chinese immigrants who worked on plantations in Hawaii. How about when the Japanese were sent to Internment camps, is that not slavery?
 
Sure, a lot of people were done wrong. How you deal with reparations (for the Japanese) or other compensation for harms done in the past depends on the situations, obviously.

No irishman today in the USA is poorly treated. Side with stormfront if you dare.

The attempt to diminish the ongoing poor treatment of black people is just sad.
 
Sure, a lot of people were done wrong. How you deal with reparations (for the Japanese) or other compensation for harms done in the past depends on the situations, obviously.

No irishman today in the USA is poorly treated. Side with stormfront if you dare.

The attempt to diminish the ongoing poor treatment of black people is just sad.
Wrong, my last name is very Irish and I get shit for it from Random people in various places.

I'm not diminishing the treatment of black people, or the treatment of anyone that is discriminated against. People are dumb, good news is each generation gets better.
 
Wrong, my last name is very Irish and I get shit for it from Random people in various places.

I'm not diminishing the treatment of black people, or the treatment of anyone that is discriminated against. People are dumb, good news is each generation gets better.

I don't see people collecting data on irish on irish crime... Or how many irish incarcerated... and so on.

You can figure out why, or ignorance is bliss.
 
Wrong, my last name is very Irish and I get shit for it from Random people in various places.

Getting shit really isn't the same thing. "Oh you're Irish, you must be a drunk!" "Oh your Chinese, you must be good at math and a bad driver."

I posted a couple of things in the Maris thread that I've witnessed first hand directed at family members. That's racism.
 
I don't see people collecting data on irish on irish crime... Or how many irish incarcerated... and so on.

You can figure out why, or ignorance is bliss.
They collect that data on white on white, white on Latino, Asian on black too Denny.

But thanks for trying to continuously marginalize my experience with discrimination with Irish and native American blood.

Seems as if you're part of the problem yourself
 
They collect that data on white on white, white on Latino, Asian on black too Denny.

But thanks for trying to continuously marginalize my experience with discrimination with Irish and native American blood.

Seems as if you're part of the problem yourself

But not irish on irish. Or italian on italian. Because they consider them all part of the dominant white "race." Because they are.

The worst part of Irish treatment over the years was being treated like Mexican and "illegal" immigrants today. Treated like dirt.

I'm part of the solution.
 
But not irish on irish. Or italian on italian. Because they consider them all part of the dominant white "race." Because they are.

The worst part of Irish treatment over the years was being treated like Mexican and "illegal" immigrants today. Treated like dirt.

I'm part of the solution.
Lol I could just as easily say that's discrimination and that I don't associate with other white races.

Irish people werent allowed to eat at establishments and were called white 'n' words. Thats far worse than what you claim
 
This is getting way off track. I'm going to call bullshit on Denny's assertion that Native Americans were friendly with conquistadors and european invaders for centuries before Grant was president. That is literally lumping together thousands of tribes as pro european settlement. Read the march to the monteria by B. Traven and you'll see how the locals were enslaved by the Scottish logwood pirates and hung in the trees upside down so they wouldn't escape at night ..often with tongues removed so they wouldn't plot revolt. You make it sound like the indigenous people just threw a party when the whites showed up. White slavery has occurred throughout history mostly during the Ottoman and Roman empire periods. I posted a link to the history of racism if you backtrack a page or two here that explains how Irish, Poles, Jews and Italians were not considered fully white because they were not protestant. You can read on that link about the Native American laws and relocation, Japanese interment, South African apartheid, Rhodesia, Australian racial history...on and on...in a nutshell, history is ugly and complicated when it comes to race relations. It should also be pointed out that africans hunted and sold slaves to Dutch, English and Spanish merchants to be relocated to the new world. Treatment of black culture in America in 2015 is not fair...but it's improved and hopefully will improve more.
 
This is getting way off track. I'm going to call bullshit on Denny's assertion that Native Americans were friendly with conquistadors and european invaders for centuries before Grant was president. That is literally lumping together thousands of tribes as pro european settlement. Read the march to the monteria by B. Traven and you'll see how the locals were enslaved by the Scottish logwood pirates and hung in the trees upside down so they wouldn't escape at night ..often with tongues removed so they wouldn't plot revolt. You make it sound like the indigenous people just threw a party when the whites showed up. White slavery has occurred throughout history mostly during the Ottoman and Roman empire periods. I posted a link to the history of racism if you backtrack a page or two here that explains how Irish, Poles, Jews and Italians were not considered fully white because they were not protestant. You can read on that link about the Native American laws and relocation, Japanese interment, South African apartheid, Rhodesia, Australian racial history...on and on...in a nutshell, history is ugly and complicated when it comes to race relations. It should also be pointed out that africans hunted and sold slaves to Dutch, English and Spanish merchants to be relocated to the new world. Treatment of black culture in America in 2015 is not fair...but it's improved and hopefully will improve more.

The spanish were brutal to the indians from day 1. I was talking about the french and english. The indians fought with the french and with the british in the French and Indian War. While there were a number of conflicts between the two peoples (colonists, indians) during the first 300+ years, there wasn't any sort of all out warfare between the two. The indians helped colonists survive, showed them how to grow corn, showed them passages through the mountains to reach the pacific, etc.

We celebrate Thanksgiving to this day, a holiday that is a tribute to peace between settlers and indians. An actual party when the whites showed up!

Before the massacres of the 1800s, the indians were more likely to be raided and massacred by other indian tribes.

It is what it is.
 
Denny, you need to watch the documentary I linked below. You "may" change some of your views after watching it.

It is a good looong documentary about the history of the Indian Wars. There is a lot of history in this documentary that is not well known, or, taught from history books used in schools today.

There were many local conflicts from the very beginning of the Euro migration to the USA. This documentary covers some of the early conflicts.

Probably the first president to make the war against the Indians a national battle was Andrew Jackson. After the civil war, Grant ramped up the war on the Indians that eventually turned into genocide.

 
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No, we can't stop playing that "card."

Yes we get that feeling! And more than a few of us can't appreciate why is continues.

Slavery ended 150 years ago. Most of the slaves were were held by a very few people, 393,975 of a population of 27 million. I would also point out that almost none of these people originated slavery or enslaved anyone. They purchase slaves that were already enslaved or the children of slaves expanded their holdings. Most all people enslaved (white and Black were enslaved by Africans or Arab (Muslim) slave traders, then sold to slave traders. Probably more Europeans were enslaved than African Blacks but they were
kept in the Caliphate where as the Blacks were often sold to buyers in the Americas. The first official slave holder in the what was to become to US, was an African in 1621 Virginia.
One of the largest slave holders was a Black woman in New Orleans (memory of history hopefully correct here).

Now, most of the 280 million white people in this country did not descend from the handful of slave holders. It is damn hard for many of us to accept responsibility for the slavery of Black people or to accept any inherited guilt that it occurred. This seems to be what some black people want as well as bleeding heart liberals, while they appear to be completely uninformed that white people were also enslaved by the same culture that enslave the ancestors of the Black Americans. The big difference between the Whites that were enslaved and the Blacks was, the Blacks were enslave by Black rulers and sold to Muslim slave traders, whether by culling the tribe or capturing a rival tribe. The Muslim slave trader, like the Barbary Pirates that Jefferson went to war with, directly enslaved most of the white slaves, the decedents of are still in places like Iraq, Syria, and other parts of the middle east.

We do try to get past this history, but it is difficult, it never rest long before some asshole comes along and whines about half the story. Just yesterday, I wondered, how many people in this forum actually has hired a black person, or promoted one to a management position? I have done both, but don't read me wrong, I did not do it out of empathy or guilt. I did these acts out of pure self interest, I thought I was making the move that would help me the most at the time. How many here have walked that walk? If you did it to help your image with Diversity goals, you might be a fool.
 
Denny, you need to watch the documentary I linked below. You "may" change some of your views after watching it.

It is a good looong documentary about the history of the Indian Wars. There is a lot of history in this documentary that is not well known, or, taught from history books used in schools today.

There were many local conflicts from the very beginning of the Euro migration to the USA. This documentary covers some of the early conflicts.

Probably the first president to make the war against the Indians a national battle was Andrew Jackson. After the civil war, Grant ramped up the war on the Indians that eventually turned into genocide.


Of course there were conflicts all along. Many of the 8 people were slaughtered variety.

Something like this.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/outlines/history-1994/early-america/colonial-indian-relations.php

Indians were badly treated. A holocaust in the mid-1800s in non Spanish territories. They still weren't slaves, and still were treated as sovereign nations. Hence TREATIES, broken or not.

Your story is missing the almost 400 years of history before Jackson.
 
Don't break an arm jerking yourself off there Denny.

The way things are, Irishmen are revolting in towns like Ferguson and Baltimore because of jaywalking citations!

And how about that Rodney O'King trial?

Or those letters from a Birmingham jail by Martin Luther O'King.

Three different decades. All is well because slavery ended in 1865, though.

Yeah, we've made some progress, but there's a long way to go. If everything were groovy, the people wouldn't be rioting in the streets.
 
Debating the past isn't exactly the most important thing is it? To me the question going forward is what does a world with billions of people do now?

I'd say we all have American privilege.

When will it all come crashing down?
 
Your story is missing the almost 400 years of history before Jackson.

Opps, it’s been a while since I watched the documentary.

There must be another documentary with the early years. I’ll see if I can find it. It shows a lot of the conflicts between the east coast tribes and early settlers. Sorry, I thought it was included in this video. My memory isn't what it used to be.
 
Bumping this so folks can actually have accurate historical ref in regards to racism
Racism in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Part of a series of articles on
Racial segregation


Australia
White Australia policy, Freedom Ride (Australia)
South Africa
United States
Elsewhere
Arab world, Ireland, Israel, Latin America,Rhodesia, United Kingdom
Racism and ethnic discrimination in the United States has been a major issue since the colonial era and the slave era. Legally or socially sanctioned privileges and rights were given to White Americans that were not granted to Native Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, and Latin Americans. European Americans (particularly Anglo Americans) were granted in matters of education, immigration, voting rights, citizenship, land acquisition, and criminal procedure over periods of time extending from the 17th century to the 1960s. However, non-Protestant immigrants from Europe; particularly Jews, Irish people, Poles and Italians, suffered xenophobic exclusion and other forms of ethnicity-based discrimination in American society, and were not considered fullywhite.

Major racially and ethnically structured institutions included slavery, Indian Wars, Native American reservations, segregation,residential schools for Native Americans, and internment camps.[1] Formal racial discrimination was largely banned in the mid-20th century, and came to be perceived as socially unacceptable and/or morally repugnant as well.

Racial politics remains a major phenomenon. Racism continues to be reflected in socioeconomic inequality,[2] and has taken on more modern, indirect forms of expression, most prevalently symbolic racism.[3] Racial stratification continues to occur in employment, housing, education, lending, and government.

In the view of the U.S. Human Rights Network, a network of scores of U.S. civil rights and human rights organizations, "Discrimination permeates all aspects of life in the United States, and extends to all communities of color".[4] While the nature of the views held by average Americans have changed much over the past several decades, surveys by organizations such as ABC Newshave found that, even recently, large sections of Americans self-admit to holding discriminatory viewpoints; for example, a 2007 article by the organization stated that about one in ten held admitted to holding prejudices against Hispanic-Americans and about one in four did so regarding Arab-Americans.[5]



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