Politics Can Sanders beat Trump? (1 Viewer)

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TorturedBlazerFan said:
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/po...0200224-a7weqx6emvf3bah6qh5mqqqgya-story.html

This is what's concerning about Bernie though. If he is the Nominee for the dems. He's going to have to stop building up guys like Castro. He needs states like FL to win, aren't going to get it like that.
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That is quite a stretch for them to claim that Bernie praised Castro. A "massive literacy program" so that Cubans can learn. Seems like a good policy to me. Learning is the foundation of any civilized society.
 
Road Ratt said:
That is quite a stretch for them to claim that Bernie praised Castro. A "massive literacy program" so that Cubans can learn. Seems like a good policy to me. Learning is the foundation of any civilized society.
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Sure all the people in FL who fled Castro and had family killed by his regime really care about his literacy program. Here's the issue though. It's a pattern with him his comments on the USSR, Daniel Ortega, Castro all seem to be well sure we don't like violence, but if it gets us what we want then we can ignore it to talk about what we like to talk about. I'm just saying, if he wants a chance to win, he's probably going to have to curtail that habit he has. Cause whether you agree with the 'policy' or not people won't vote for that outside of the already blue states.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/po...0200224-a7weqx6emvf3bah6qh5mqqqgya-story.html

This is what's concerning about Bernie though. If he is the Nominee for the dems. He's going to have to stop building up guys like Castro. He needs states like FL to win, aren't going to get it like that.
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I agree very bad move talking up Castro. But, hey Trump switched his residency to Florida because he couldn't win his home state( well for tax reaaons, but also for this reason). It would be funny if Trump lost the state in which he resides again.
 
Chris Craig said:
I agree very bad move talking up Castro. But, hey Trump switched his residency to Florida because he couldn't win his home state( well for tax reaaons, but also for this reason). It would be funny if Trump lost the state in which he resides again.
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By the time this election is over. All the right will be convinced the left are communists and Bernie is the head man, and the left will be convinced Trumps - Hitler. That oughta make 2021 a good year for us when everyone's convinced the other-side is extremely against them, not that we aren't dangerously close to that now, but if I had one prediction to make 2021 is going to see a whole lot of violence as both sides will be convinced the other hates them. You know if Bernie gets the nomination he is gonna be hitting that "c" word on loop with Bernie, and Bernie's campaign will be hitting all the right notes too.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Sure all the people in FL who fled Castro and had family killed by his regime really care about his literacy program. Here's the issue though. It's a pattern with him his comments on the USSR, Daniel Ortega, Castro all seem to be well sure we don't like violence, but if it gets us what we want then we can ignore it to talk about what we like to talk about. I'm just saying, if he wants a chance to win, he's probably going to have to curtail that habit he has. Cause whether you agree with the 'policy' or not people won't vote for that outside of the already blue states.
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Ah, I see. I have not seen these comments you speak of. If they are as shallow of a comparison as the article you posted, they probably aren't much on substance then, sorry. America is the most violent regime on the planet, bar none. Yet, it's alright to support American presidents. We have a nice double standard built right into our way of thinking here in America. (Not a comment on you personally, just a general comment on what I see as flawed thinking.)
 
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Chris Craig said:
Yes. He won the moderate vote in Nevada. He has a much larger base then people give him credit for. People are voting for Bernie and its not just young people either. If he is the nominee, he will likely pick a moderate running mate like Klobuchar and have no trouble in the midwest and South East. He is not a communist...thats a low blow. Alot of his ideas are out there, but I think headed in the direction we need to go. With a moderate running mate that can all be balanced out.
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Chris, I didn't call him a communist just that he's complimented several communist countries ways and visited them. I think he is a demo socialist with a no idea how much everything is going to cost, he's making promises im not sure he can keep which is what most politicians do to get votes.
I don't think Amy or EW would couple up with him but I could be completely wrong.
 
Road Ratt said:
Ah, I see. I have not seen these comments you speak of. If they are as shallow of a comparison as the article you posted, they probably aren't much on substance then, sorry. America is the most violent regime on the planet, bar none. Yet, it's alright to support American presidents. We have a nice double standard built right into our thinking here in America. (Not a comment on you personally, just a general comment on what I see as flawed thinking)
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Well... I kind of agree, I don't think we come close to the death #'s of China's great leap forward and what happened there, estimates of 18-40m deaths is a lot of people and that party has reigned since Mao's death. My point is just if he wants to win I think he needs to distance himself from that stuff whether you're right or not about our double standards.
 
Minstrel said:
It's worth noting that a lot of analysis found that Sanders was drawing in people who don't usually vote Democratic (or, in many cases, don't vote at all) in 2016 and they didn't bother to vote for Clinton, because they were Sanders fans, not leftists or Democrats.

So, I don't think it's true that Sanders only appeals to hyper-partisan leftists. While I think Sanders is a completely different type of person from Trump, like Trump he appeals to "political outsiders," who otherwise wouldn't be Democratic voters. You may be significantly underestimating how many people he can draw under his banner.
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I could be wrong on it but so could everyone thats thinks he can provide Utopia. There is a cost tied to everything and it needs to be paid for.
To me at this point anyway I support Pete, Amy and Joe.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Well... I kind of agree, I don't think we come close to the death #'s of China's great leap forward and what happened there, estimates of 18-40m deaths is a lot of people and that party has reigned since Mao's death. My point is just if he wants to win I think he needs to distance himself from that stuff whether you're right or not about our double standards.
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That is the thing about Bernie. He isn't going to bend to the will of other people's interests. His message has been the same for decades, they aren't something new he conveniently chose just to impress a certain political ideology. I wouldn't want to back a politician who's opinion blows to the winds of his donors.
 
Road Ratt said:
That is the thing about Bernie. He isn't going to bend to the will of other people's interests. His message has been the same for decades, they aren't something new he conveniently chose just to impress a certain political ideology. I wouldn't want to back a politician who's opinion blows to the winds of his donors.
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I am not saying he needs to all of a sudden change his political ideology, but at some point, if he wants to win picking and choosing the words are important, and sometimes the wisest move of all is to not speak. Or if he's a populist like were saying he is and is asked about Cuba why not just stop at "the way Castro came into power was wrong" or something like that. Totally understand what you're saying but he's gotta win over people at the same time or he won't win.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I am not saying he needs to all of a sudden change his political ideology, but at some point, if he wants to win picking and choosing the words are important, and sometimes the wisest move of all is to not speak. Or if he's a populist like were saying he is and is asked about Cuba why not just stop at "the way Castro came into power was wrong" or something like that. Totally understand what you're saying but he's gotta win over people at the same time or he won't win.
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He's a wily one...

bernie-sanders-and-castro.jpg
 
Hoopguru said:
I could be wrong on it but so could everyone thats thinks he can provide Utopia. There is a cost tied to everything and it needs to be paid for.
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That's certainly true. We should always be conscious of the costs of things. That's why I never talk about "free health care" and "free college." It's not free--it's paid for by tax-payers. I just think that's the right move--I don't think we should socialize everything (as in communism), but I think we should socialize more than we do.

We currently socialize pre-university education and we socialize health care for the elderly and veterans. I don't think either of those things has been terrible for our nation--I think both have been huge positives. I think it's time to expand both those things--socialize university education and health care for everyone. The reason is that both health care and education are crucial in creating opportunity--it's much harder to be successful without access to education and it's much harder to be successful if you can't maintain your health (or have to go bankrupt to do so).
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I am not saying he needs to all of a sudden change his political ideology, but at some point, if he wants to win picking and choosing the words are important, and sometimes the wisest move of all is to not speak. Or if he's a populist like were saying he is and is asked about Cuba why not just stop at "the way Castro came into power was wrong" or something like that. Totally understand what you're saying but he's gotta win over people at the same time or he won't win.
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I am sorry, but we have a bit of different ideas on what winning over people are. His message is winning over people, or he wouldn't have won the popular vote in all of the first 3 states. Everyone is already sounding the alarm that Bernie may very well win the nomination, some people believe that it is already over and Bernie can't be stopped. His message is resonating, he draws the largest crowds to his rally's than any other politician running. If I remember correctly, he also has more individual contributions to his campaign than any other politician in history. That takes a hell of a lot of backing from the population to accomplish.

I think Bernie can hold his own. Besides, Trump has so much baggage and has told so many lies to states he needs to win to get re-elected. When they are exposed, and they will be, I can't see Trump surviving when he has no real dirt on Sanders, because just calling Bernie a communist isn't going to cut it in the long run, in my opinion.

I believe we will see a "blue wave" in November. But I guess, we will have to wait and see.

Edit: A breakdown of Sanders Nevada win.

 
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Minstrel said:
Despite all the niceties, Sanders didn't give squat to Castro.
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Nah, of course he didn't. But, the niceties may cost him Florida. We shall see.
 
ABM said:
Despite all the niceties, etc., Trump ain't giving squat to that guy.
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Despite the niceties Sanders didn't give Squat to Castro and can't...he's dead
 
Minstrel said:
Despite all the niceties, Sanders didn't give squat to Castro.
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He sure did with Ortega though... He also at one time said Kennedy wanting to deal with Castro made him want to puke.
"And I remember, again, very distinctly, a very distinct feeling. I was watching the debate, you remember the famous Nixon-Kennedy debate, that was the first time that presidential candidates actually debated. And I was becoming increasingly interested in politics, didn’t know much, but was interested.

"I remember sitting in the student lounge in a dormitory watching the debate, and at that time — well, I can’t talk about you, but I was very excited and impressed by the Cuban Revolution."

...

Actually, when you read novels, people say there’s a sick feeling in your stomach. Usually I’m sufficiently unemotional not to be sick, but I actually got up in the room and almost left to puke.

It really does sound kind of like the stuff Trump says, doesn't it?
 
Hoopguru said:
I don't think Amy or EW would couple up with him but I could be completely wrong.
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Not sure why they wouldn't. They'd have an good statistical chance of becoming president, assuming the ticket won.

But maybe you meant sexually. In which case, I'd guess you are right.

barfo
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
He sure did with Ortega though...
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What did he give Ortega?

It really does sound kind of like the stuff Trump says, doesn't it?
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Not really? Because he used the word "puke?" I mean, I think it's a bad thing for him to have said, I just don't see how it sounds "Trump-like."
 
Minstrel said:
That's certainly true. We should always be conscious of the costs of things. That's why I never talk about "free health care" and "free college." It's not free--it's paid for by tax-payers. I just think that's the right move--I don't think we should socialize everything (as in communism), but I think we should socialize more than we do.

We currently socialize pre-university education and we socialize health care for the elderly and veterans. I don't think either of those things has been terrible for our nation--I think both have been huge positives. I think it's time to expand both those things--socialize university education and health care for everyone. The reason is that both health care and education are crucial in creating opportunity--it's much harder to be successful without access to education and it's much harder to be successful if you can't maintain your health (or have to go bankrupt to do so).
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agree with socializing priority areas within reason and Im for progressive tax structure (even as somewhat a libertarian) to cover the cost.
But we need to stay a capitalist country to maintain free/mix markets that can propel innovation and opportunities. Im never for state own production or price controls as that is , where the powerful at the top live the life of riley at the expense of workers that basically have no incentive. So you like the idea of huge government providing for the mass? Why cant we have a small moderate size gov that helps those in need and some with more power to States.
Oh, we just had are taxes done by a couple we've used for a number of years, liberals and I asked what are they seeing in terms of who is realizing true benefits from the changes. They both enthusiastically convery younger people like those with families that are not huge income earners and that those with higher incomes are getting hurt because of the 10% max on prop taxes ect.
Im glad to hear that young families are benefitting in this regard. Now if we can address lower the cost of med care.
 
barfo said:
Not sure why they wouldn't. They'd have an good statistical chance of becoming president, assuming the ticket won.

But maybe you meant sexually. In which case, I'd guess you are right.

barfo
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lmao...not sexually I never even considered that, but you are probably right!
If they did and lose in the general it could hurt their future maybe? More so Amy?
If he wasn't so anti bridging the gap and wanting to compromise on some issues, maybe Amy or Pete would entertain in hopes of having influence make Pence does with Trumper. lol
 
barfo said:
Not sure why they wouldn't. They'd have an good statistical chance of becoming president, assuming the ticket won.

But maybe you meant sexually. In which case, I'd guess you are right.

barfo
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A 29% chance (14 Vice Presidents out of 48 have ascended to the presidency). A higher chance if you take Bernies age into account I guess.
 
Chris Craig said:
A 29% chance (14 Vice Presidents out of 48 have ascended to the presidency). A higher chance if you take Bernies age into account I guess.
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Yes, I meant both options for ascension. Although being VP and then getting elected President has seemingly fallen on hard times recently.

barfo
 
Hoopguru said:
So you like the idea of huge government providing for the mass?
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I like the idea of government making sure everyone has the most basic, necessary stuff that creates opportunity. As a society, we're much stronger when everyone is empowered with the opportunity to achieve what they can.

Equality of opportunity, not equality of results. There will always be more successful people and less successful people, richer people and poorer people. But the ideal should be that everyone gets all the things they need to actually have their chance at being successful. Then, those that do more with their opportunity get further ahead.
 
Minstrel said:
I like the idea of government making sure everyone has the most basic, necessary stuff that creates opportunity. As a society, we're much stronger when everyone is empowered with the opportunity to achieve what they can.

Equality of opportunity, not equality of results. There will always be more successful people and less successful people, richer people and poorer people. But the ideal should be that everyone gets all the things they need to actually have their chance at being successful. Then, those that do more with their opportunity get further ahead.
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Nice answer.
 
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