Politics Can Sanders beat Trump? (1 Viewer)

[Shaboid]

Most people exclude Florida from normal human society. It's its own separate entity, unrelated to the rest.

Living here for the last 2ish years has definitely been a trip. I've seen some things. Thankful that my brother graduates next month and I have nothing tying me down to stay past that.

On that note, anybody want to hire me back in Oregon???

 

[Road Ratt]

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Then why dont people flock to Cuba or Venezuela for socialized medicine. Why do Canadians come here for special procedures or simply cannot wait for long delays to see the doc.

Why do Americans go to Canada for prescription drugs? Why do Americans go to Mexico (yes, Mexico) to have surgeries or treatments? Because they can't afford it here.

Also it's not just Cuba and Venezuela that have socialized medicine, it's basically all of the developed world. Most of them are doing fine with it, and their citizens don't go bankrupt paying to stay alive. Socialized medicine is not the problem in Venezuela.

 

[GhostOfPGA]

Ok here is a very valid question... say Bernie is elected, pushes his agenda through and then the billionaires say “fuck this shit” and leave? You can’t stop them from leaving, I know I would leave if some jackass was taxing me 90%.

 

[barfo]

Ok here is another very valid question... say aliens land, insert anal probes into 24% of the population, and then electrify them? How will that affect the median reading level of 8th graders?

barfo

 

[ABM]

Ok here is a very valid question... say Bernie is elected, pushes his agenda through and then the billionaires say “fuck this shit” and leave? You can’t stop them from leaving, I know I would leave if some jackass was taxing me 90%.

I'm already working on The Azores Coalition Project. Gonna be wildly popular! (Green font for yankeesince59's sake)

 

[barfo]

Then why dont people flock to Cuba or Venezuela for socialized medicine.

Cuba attracts about 20,000 paying health tourists, generating revenues of around $40 million a year for the Cuban economy. Cuba has been serving health tourists from around the world for more than 20 years. The country operates a special division of hospitals specifically for the treatment of foreigners and diplomats. Foreign patients travel to Cuba for a wide range of treatments including eye-surgery, neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease, cosmetic surgery, addictions treatment, retinitis pigmentosa and orthopaedics.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

Why do Americans go to Canada for prescription drugs? Why do Americans go to Mexico (yes, Mexico) to have surgeries or treatments? Because they can't afford it here.

Also it's not just Cuba and Venezuela that have socialized medicine, it's basically all of the developed world. Most of them are doing fine with it, and their citizens don't go bankrupt paying to stay alive. Socialized medicine is not the problem in Venezuela.

I realize that there are socialized programs throughout the world.
Like I said Im not opposed to tax payer funded medical social program just not that it's the only one offered. And that its managed properly.

 

[Hoopguru]

Cuba attracts about 20,000 paying health tourists, generating revenues of around $40 million a year for the Cuban economy. Cuba has been serving health tourists from around the world for more than 20 years. The country operates a special division of hospitals specifically for the treatment of foreigners and diplomats. Foreign patients travel to Cuba for a wide range of treatments including eye-surgery, neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease, cosmetic surgery, addictions treatment, retinitis pigmentosa and orthopaedics.

barfo

That I wasn't aware of, Im all for paying for service as long as its superb!
Again, I favor an option like Pete and Amy propose, im not for one size fits all, lie it or not. Freedom of choice. Just like abortions should be.

 

[ABM]

Cuba attracts about 20,000 paying health tourists, generating revenues of around $40 million a year for the Cuban economy. Cuba has been serving health tourists from around the world for more than 20 years. The country operates a special division of hospitals specifically for the treatment of foreigners and diplomats. Foreign patients travel to Cuba for a wide range of treatments including eye-surgery, neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease, cosmetic surgery, addictions treatment, retinitis pigmentosa and orthopaedics.

barfo

Indeed.

Furthermore, most patients are from Latin America, Europe and Canada, and a growing number of Americans also are coming. By 1998, according to the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean, the Cuban health sector had risen to occupy around 2 percent of total tourism. Some of these revenues are in turn transferred to health care for ordinary Cubans, although the size and importance of these transfers is both unknown and controversial. At one nationally prominent hospital/research institute, hard currency payments by foreigners have financed the construction of a new bathroom in the splenic surgery wing; anecdotal evidence suggests that this pattern is common in Cuban hospitals.

ABM

 

[Hoopguru]

Cuba attracts about 20,000 paying health tourists, generating revenues of around $40 million a year for the Cuban economy. Cuba has been serving health tourists from around the world for more than 20 years. The country operates a special division of hospitals specifically for the treatment of foreigners and diplomats. Foreign patients travel to Cuba for a wide range of treatments including eye-surgery, neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's disease, cosmetic surgery, addictions treatment, retinitis pigmentosa and orthopaedics.

barfo

Cuban doctors drive cabs and work abroad to compensate for ...www.statnews.com › 2017/02/08 › cuba-doctors-meager-pay

I think I would still prefer our current health care to Cuba's. I understand why they want to promote private procedures at a high cost.

 

[barfo]

Cuban doctors drive cabs and work abroad to compensate for ...www.statnews.com › 2017/02/08 › cuba-doctors-meager-pay

I think I would still prefer our current health care to Cuba's. I understand why they want to promote private procedures at a high cost.

Yes, one of the reasons health care costs so much here is that we pay doctors so much. You can decide whether that's fair or not.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

The American health care system, like America in general, is fantastic if you're rich and pretty not-so-great if you're not rich, compared with the rest of the developed world. So, it's not surprising that Canadians come to the US to get costly, potentially optional surgeries faster. If everyone in America was rich, there'd be no problem with the system. Ask most Canadians if they'd trade their health care system for ours. I've had a lot of Canadian friends and acquaintances, and not a single one thinks the US system is better. In fact, most are confused as to why our system is so terrible.

 

[Hoopguru]

Yes, one of the reasons health care costs so much here is that we pay doctors so much. You can decide whether that's fair or not.

barfo

and tickets to an NBA game are expensive too. People running around with $800 cell phones.
Do owners of sporting franchises make to much money? Probably, but if they didn't Dame Dolla wouldn't be making the haul that he does.
My wife as a career retired teacher was probably underpaid compared to some professions, and later in her tenure even working basically 9 months.
The Pers retirement is nice but nothing compared to Mike Belotti's.

Have you gone to Killer Burger? I left when I discovered they wanted $10 to eat the fear the cow between two slices of bread. I get a kick out of how people line up to spend big bucks on foo foo coffee and it doesnt matter their income in fact many low income earners prioritize their boutique java over anything else to start their day. I keep drinking MGB or Folgers!

This country is driven by marketing thats why we are on this site. The NBA is FANtastic!

 

[Hoopguru]

Yes, one of the reasons health care costs so much here is that we pay doctors so much. You can decide whether that's fair or not.

barfo

Barfo, what line of work are you in? Just curious...

 

[noknobs]

Can't plan your life around stupid.

Yet you support Sanders?

 

[crandc]

I don't get the freakout over Sanders saying what is a recognized fact. Illiteracy under Batista was over 50%, up to 90% in rural areas. Cuba now has near 100% literacy, not just basic can you write your name but equivalent of high school education. It's one thing to criticize, another to demonize. Also true that Cuba has best health care system in Latin America and infant mortality better than that of Black women in the US. And best hurricane preparedness. Those things are simply facts.

I remember during Reagan years some right wingers wanted to change a social studies book because it said the then-Soviet Union was one of the world's top energy producers.

The former Soviet Union was one of the world's top energy producers. Fact.

This "electable" at some point, does it become self fulfilling? You know, keep hearing someone isn't electable and folks figure they shouldn't vote for him/her? The person with most votes is by definition electable. Reminds me of how we kept hearing Hillary Clinton was not "likable" (unlike pathological lying racist misogynist schoolyard bully, but hey, a man doesn't have to be nice) until people who had thought she was just fine started thinking they must be wrong because all they heard was she was not likable.

 

[barfo]

Barfo, what line of work are you in? Just curious...

I am not a medical doctor, thus I feel completely free to suggest that they should be paid less

barfo

 

[ABM]

Barfo, what line of work are you in? Just curious...

If his guy or gal gets elected...

 

[Hoopguru]

I am not a medical doctor, thus I feel completely free to suggest that they should be paid less

barfo

gotcha! Undercover cop

 

[barfo]

gotcha! Undercover cop

I do my best work under the covers.

barfo

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I do my best work under the covers.

barfo

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yet you support Sanders?

You've convinced me. I now support this guy:

 

[noknobs]

You've convinced me. I now support this guy:

What does that idiot have to do with the idiot I was talking about?

 

[Orion Bailey]

https://news.yahoo.com/sanders-admi...s-021852309.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=fb

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Calm down, establishment Democrats. Bernie Sanders might be the safest choice.

 

[barfo]

Calm down, establishment Democrats. Bernie Sanders might be the safest choice.

The problem with that theory is it might be right.

The American system doesn't easily enable a revolution, so we'll wind up with people looking for more and more extreme candidates to change the system.

Not looking forward to Trump Jr. or the Infowars guy getting elected in 2024.

barfo

 

[andalusian]

Why do Canadians come here for special procedures or simply cannot wait for long delays to see the doc.

Why do we spend more than twice as much per person on healthcare than Canada and our healthcare is ranked #27 in the world vs. #12 for Canada? (WHO, 2018)

There will always be anecdotal instances - but successful management of large systems that ignores overall performance for anecdotal evidence is a losing proposition, and healthcare, quite frankly, is a large system to manage.

I am certain that there are things that the US healthcare is better at than the Canadian one, one of them is time for operation for specialist procedures, on the other hand, the wait time for initial visit on average in the US is 3 times longer (24 days vs. 8) than Canada. So, is it important that in the US you wait 2 days for specialist procedure vs. 10 days in Canada, if the average wait time from initial visit to procedure is likely longer in the US (24 + 2 > 8 + 10)?

The numbers for the US healthcare system when you look at cost/value are not good, if you look at them objectively, and a large portion of the extra costs is the huge amount of overhead in the US system. Many hospitals in the US, for example, have more than 1 administrative clerk per hospital bed - because dealing with insurance claims for the patients is a nightmare. In Canada they average about 0.15 administrative clerks per hospital bed.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Why do we spend more than twice as much per person on healthcare than Canada and our healthcare is ranked #27 in the world vs. #12 for Canada? (WHO, 2018)

There will always be anecdotal instances - but successful management of large systems that ignores overall performance for anecdotal evidence is a losing proposition, and healthcare, quite frankly, is a large system to manage.

I am certain that there are things that the US healthcare is better at than the Canadian one, one of them is time for operation for specialist procedures, on the other hand, the wait time for initial visit on average in the US is 3 times longer (24 days vs. 8) than Canada. So, is it important that in the US you wait 2 days for specialist procedure vs. 10 days in Canada, if the average wait time from initial visit to procedure is likely longer in the US (24 + 2 > 8 + 10)?

The numbers for the US healthcare system when you look at cost/value are not good, if you look at them objectively, and a large portion of the extra costs is the huge amount of overhead in the US system. Many hospitals in the US, for example, have more than 1 administrative clerk per hospital bed - because dealing with insurance claims for the patients is a nightmare. In Canada they average about 0.15 administrative clerks per hospital bed.

We spend more because too many people want their hands in making money off of it. There are too many middle-men in the US version of Health care. Government is one of those hands though. But what it has created is an artificial price gauging from the hospitals and Doctors offices to try to make money. In a system where there is actually a free market, no Insurance companies, no middlemen there would actually be posted prices, and fewer "mouths" to feed off of you and I going to the doctor. Right now our "spending per capita" is out of control because prices are out of control, and the reason for that IMO boils down everyone is trying to gain from it. Pharma, the Government, Insurance, Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals, etc. If the medical industry was more direct and had less write-offs and doctors not getting paid for their actual services the bills would be a lot less.

 

[andalusian]

We spend more because too many people want their hands in making money off of it. There are too many middle-men in the US version of Health care. Government is one of those hands though. But what it has created is an artificial price gauging from the hospitals and Doctors offices to try to make money. In a system where there is actually a free market, no Insurance companies, no middlemen there would actually be posted prices, and fewer "mouths" to feed off of you and I going to the doctor. Right now our "spending per capita" is out of control because prices are out of control, and the reason for that IMO boils down everyone is trying to gain from it. Pharma, the Government, Insurance, Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals, etc. If the medical industry was more direct and had less write-offs and doctors not getting paid for their actual services the bills would be a lot less.

Government will always have a hand in anything you want regulated - and without regulation you will get scammers selling you miracle drugs, unaccredited people posing as health professionals etc...

The very idea that the government is trying to gain from the system is absurd - the US government health services are not run as a profit center.

The issue we have, quite frankly, is that there is not enough regulation - and that's why there are so many private insurance companies with very complicated schemes that make it so complicated and require the administrative overhead, the runaways pharma costs etc...

The very fact that the system in countries like Canada, UK, Japan and the Nordic countries with more regulation are so much more efficient go directly against your claim that the issue is government inefficiency.

The fact is, you need regulation because of the obvious risks that non-regulated large scale systems poses for critical services. What you want is to find some kind of a trade-off between regulation and innovation that brings to maximum efficiency. The problem in the US (and the numbers prove that it is an inefficient mess) is not because of over-regulation - we have more healthcare providers, insurers and schemes than any other modern country - yet we are the most inefficient of the lot. This shows that we err on the side of 'innovation' to a detriment of the system.

Frankly, if we look at healthcare as a closed system and think of it as a very big company - we would all decry it as an inefficient mess where management (the government) does an awful job of regulating how all it's departments operate - and because of that it provides awful service at an exorbitant price. Better management would certainly improve this system - and suggesting that removing regulation from a failing system with less regulation than elsewhere would make it better is not likely to be effective.