Politics Can Sanders beat Trump? (1 Viewer)

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https://communitynewspapers.com/fea...-bernie-sanders-remarks-on-the-castro-regime/

Congresswoman Donna Shalala (D -FL-27) released the following statement:

“Senator Sanders’ comments on the Castro regime are misguided, ill-informed, and unacceptable. Over the last six decades, hundreds of thousands of Cubans have risked their lives to escape the tyranny of the Castro regime – a reign of fear, paranoia, and oppression that regularly abuses human rights in order to stifle free thought and democracy in Cuba to this very day.

“I believe Senator Sanders would benefit from taking time to meet with the many survivors of Castro’s Cuba who now live in South Florida. My hope is that after meeting with the exile community, he will recognize that the Cuban regime – and other similar authoritarian regimes across Latin America – are instruments of evil and are not worthy of his praise.”
 
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Ain't nothing new about these supposed progressive minds...

New Harmony: America's failed 19th-century socialist experiment
By Charles Creitz, Samuel Chamberlain | Fox News
Get Fox Nation

(Ed. note: This article has been adapted from the six-part Fox Nation series "The Unauthorized History of Socialism," hosted by Bret Baier.)

The history of socialism in America did not begin with Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Rather, it began in 1825 on the banks of the Wabash River in Indiana.

On April 27 of that year, Robert Owen, a Welsh textile manufacturer-turned-philanthropist, welcomed 800 eager arrivals to the settlement he had christened New Harmony.

New Harmony was to be a "community of equality" heralding a new way of life. Owen's followers would soon coin a new name for his vision: "utopian socialism."

On July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Owen issued his own variation, what he called the "Declaration of Mental Independence." From that day forward, Owen proclaimed, men would be free from what he called a "trinity of the most monstrous evils that could be combined to inflict mental and physical evil upon the whole race ... I refer to private property, absurd and irrational systems of religion and marriage founded upon individual property."

The quest to do away with private property would animate the philosophy of socialism for the next 150 years.

Intellectuals were drawn to Owen and the promise of New Harmony, but managing the community's resources without individual ownership proved highly inefficient. One New Harmony member wrote that "even salads were deposited in the store to be handed out, making 10,000 unnecessary steps [and] causing them to come to the tables in a wilted, deadened state."

"In the end, I think one of the problems in New Harmony was that it was a big group of idealists in one place -- in a very isolated place," says Connie Weinzapfel, longtime director of the Historic New Harmony site. "They spent a lot of time thinking about the idea of a perfect community. Ultimately you had a lot of thinkers and not enough doers."

After two years, several re-organizations, and seven different constitutions, Owen's great experiment collapsed.

"Owen had a very hard time acknowledging that there was a failure at New Harmony," says Joshua Muravchik, author of the 2003 book "Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism." "And through a period of many months when everyone around him, including his sons, was saying, 'Things are falling apart,' Owen was saying, 'Things are going great here.'

"But eventually, he couldn't keep up that pretense any longer because everyone was leaving," Muravchik adds. "And so Owen found a kind of alibi, I think, in blaming the people who came to New Harmony as being poor human material for his experiment."

Owen's son, Robert Dale Owen, stayed at New Harmony after its collapse and went on to serve two terms in Congress. He had a different assessment of his father's experiment, writing: "All cooperative schemes which provide equal remuneration to the skilled and industrious and the ignorant and idle must work their own downfall. For by this unjust plan they must of necessity eliminate the valuable members and retain only the improvident, unskilled and vicious."
 
Minstrel said:
I like the idea of government making sure everyone has the most basic, necessary stuff that creates opportunity. As a society, we're much stronger when everyone is empowered with the opportunity to achieve what they can.

Equality of opportunity, not equality of results. There will always be more successful people and less successful people, richer people and poorer people. But the ideal should be that everyone gets all the things they need to actually have their chance at being successful. Then, those that do more with their opportunity get further ahead.
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Nearly everyone is born with that, the most basic, necessary stuff that creates opportunity, barring a physical or mental handicap.

You can't steal ambition, determination, ingenuity, personal sacrifice, adaptability and a lifetime of hard work from successful people and make it your own.

Opportunity is there for every American, through personal freedoms guaranteed by The Constitution and The Bill of Rights, and Real Americans rise to the challenge and seize it.

It is why over 90% of all advances in industry, science, medicine, invention, the arts in the last 150 years began in America.
 
MARIS61 said:
Because he's an arrogant, power-hungry misogynist who would diminish and demean their place on the ticket? :dunno:
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Good point. They both do have a lot more dignity than Mike Pence.

barfo
 
MARIS61 said:
You can't steal ambition, determination, ingenuity, personal sacrifice, adaptability and a lifetime of hard work from successful people and make it your own.
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That's true. So you don't have to worry about all the successful people out there. Government isn't going to steal any of those things from them. You've nicely made the case that none of these social programs that Democrats are advocating can negatively affect successful people, they'll be just fine.

I knew you'd come around, MARIS61.
 
Hoopguru said:
Do you think the Dems will come out in recvord numbers if Bernies the nominee?
I just cant see it, I think there will be those on the fence that vote for Trump rather than Bernie, especially in midwest and SE/South. I might be wrong, but there are huge patriotic, flag waving numbers in those and I don't see them embracing democratic socialism with a guy that has been cozy with communist regime ways. I might be wrong, but I think the reason Trump won was because many dems/inde. voted for him, as a vote against Hillary and I see the same with Sanders.
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The South? Who cares. That's as red as red can be. Democrats should just move on.
 
Lanny said:
The South? Who cares. That's as red as red can be. Democrats should just move on.
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If you want Bernie to win the Presidency he's going to need some support from the south, regardless how red it is. The ONLY reason Kennedy selected Johnson as his running mate was Bobby & John knew just how important it was to win over support in the region. Bobby couldnt stand Johnson but he didn't let that get in their way.
 
Minstrel said:
What did he give Ortega?



Not really? Because he used the word "puke?" I mean, I think it's a bad thing for him to have said, I just don't see how it sounds "Trump-like."
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Because Trump glosses over how guys are maniac killers to get to the part where he 'admires' the things they've done. It isn't hard at all to find that pattern with both of these individuals and they sound very similar. Ah sure they killed people, but look at how good they are. It's the same crap with two 'ideologies' who want the same thing - power.
If it costs people's lives in the process well that's either ok or were just going to push on past that to talk about how much we like them.
When Trumps telling us how amazing Kim is or Putin and what he thinks their accomplishments are the lefts response look at the people they killed - AND IT SHOULD BE.
When Sanders does it with Ortega, Castro or whoever, the response should be the same and honestly, I am glad that other democrats are calling him out for it (even if I think it's mostly politics cause he's the front runner now).
 
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Lanny said:
The South? Who cares. That's as red as red can be. Democrats should just move on.
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You might want to rethink that. I don't believe that there's a likely route to a Dem win in the Electoral College that doesn't include winning Florida.
 
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e_blazer said:
You might want to rethink that. I don't believe that there's a likely route to a Dem win in the Electoral College that doesn't include winning Florida.
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Most people exclude Florida from "The South". It's its own separate entity, unrelated to the rest.
 
e_blazer said:
With the healthcare industry (predominantly pharmaceutical companies) donating $112 million to federal political candidates and 56% of the money going to Dem candidates, I think Bernie is going to find it a bit tougher to tackle this issue than he anticipates.

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=H
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Ah capitalism, where healthcare is a business with such massive profits that the companies can buy politicians. Truly the best economic system humans could devise!
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Ah capitalism, where healthcare is a business with such massive profits that the companies can buy politicians. Truly the best economic system humans could devise!
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Then why dont people flock to Cuba or Venezuela for socialized medicine. Why do Canadians come here for special procedures or simply cannot wait for long delays to see the doc.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Ah capitalism, where healthcare is a business with such massive profits that the companies can buy politicians. Truly the best economic system humans could devise!
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I didn't say it was. Sometimes reality sucks. Bernie has a wish list of the way he thinks things should be, but if he's elected he's going to find it much harder to convince Washington's career politicians than he is folks on the campaign trail.
 
Minstrel said:
That's true. So you don't have to worry about all the successful people out there. Government isn't going to steal any of those things from them. You've nicely made the case that none of these social programs that Democrats are advocating can negatively affect successful people, they'll be just fine.

I knew you'd come around, MARIS61.
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LOL.

Regardless of opportunity, no creation happens without incentive.

Government taxation eliminates the incentive for them to succeed.

Government handout/redistribution of wealth eliminates the necessity/desire to strive to succeed.
 
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Hoopguru said:
If you want Bernie to win the Presidency he's going to need some support from the south, regardless how red it is.
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Have you forgotten about the electoral college? States are winner-take-all, it's worthless to have 'some support' in a state.

barfo
 
In the last few years Ive had cancer surgery and two knee replacements and couldn't be happier with my insurance/medicare. and the out of pocket it cost me. I was able to get right in doc of my choice, and be in control rather than the government dictating the approach and who I should see and when. Yep I pay for Medicare Advantage, have good insurance on my vehicles and house, and even pay for insurance on my new apple I phone 11, but not for long.
Im all for having social medical coverage programs for those that need it and even don't mind contributing. Just don't make it a total government plan for all. I just don't want government run everything, that takes away my freedom of choice and what I want to spend my money on.
A healthy competitive market place with consumer awareness better now than ever, companies wont last long if they cannot offer an solid product with great service ant a competitive price.

Should the government tell Lanny he shouldn't purchase a top line Volvo that meets his needs, but require him to buy a smart car or motor electric motor scooter, no freaking way.
Not everyone can afford a Lexus but as long as there are viable mid/low end markets with affordable products, that's great.
One of my younger grandsons wanted a cell phone and was hoping to get the latest greatest like many of his 13 year old buds have, but he couldn't afford it so he went with a plan that offered a freebie phone and is happy. I told him if its, a priority to have the latest greatest save your money, then decide if its worth spending your savings on.
 
barfo said:
Have you forgotten about the electoral college? States are winner-take-all, it's worthless to have 'some support' in a state.

barfo
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True, but he or whomever will need support from the regions. Ask Hillary.
I'm just thinking a non socialist would have an easier time in those areas and more. I know I could be completely wrong but we will see.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Most people exclude Florida from "The South". It's its own separate entity, unrelated to the rest.
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Most people exclude Florida from normal human society. It's its own separate entity, unrelated to the rest.
 
MARIS61 said:
LOL.

Regardless of opportunity, no creation happens without incentive.

Government taxation eliminates the incentive for them to for them to succeed.

Government handout/redistribution of wealth eliminates the necessity/desire to strive to succeed.
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It's a truly myopic viewpoint that isolates financial reward as the only incentive for ingenuity.
 
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