OT Charles Oakley arrested during Knicks game

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Oakley is banned from MSG

#terrorist #90 day ban
 
This is all staged so the Knicks can move from basketball into WWF cage fighting...Oakley will be the ambassador of the Smackdown in the Garden debut!
 
SlyPokerDog said:
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And that one was great as well.... That's the type of journalism I crave. Stick the knife in, and twist it (to the people that deserve it). Maybe Oakley brought the whole thing upon himself? Maybe not. It doesn't matter. Being such a legend for the Knicks fans(and others like myself), the whole situation should have been handled in a different manner. And, I feel bad for the security boss that got fired. Maybe I shouldn't, however it sure appears to me that Dolan is just trying to cover his ass....
 
oldfisherman said:
More Knicks drama.

"Knicks fire security chief after Charles Oakley incident."

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/knicks-fire-head-of-security-charles-oakley-incident/350314
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Bendetto, a former U.S. Secret Service official who worked for the White House under former presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama
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I personally can't think of anyone I'd want more as a security chief than this. The sheer amount of training, skills, calmness under pressure, organization, and discipline that it takes to be a Secret Service Agent, in any capacity (regardless of past scandals), is off the charts.

I think they fired him to cover their own ass. It was obvious that he was good enough to serve under (not one, but two) PRESIDENTS....now the guy gets fired because some belligerent idiot won't leave peacefully when told to?

I don't think so. This stinks to high heaven of the Knicks ownership being a dumpster fire. I hope Bendetto sues.

That being said, there is the possibility that Bendetto let his security personnel get lax in their training and how to handle situations like this. But this is the Knicks, so even if that is their reasoning, I'm not sure I'd believe it.

Since I'm the minority in this thread of thinking Oakley got what he deserved, then it's pretty pointless arguing logic here. It seems most of the answers in this thread use the same kind of logic that school children argue with.

But man.....watching the footage that's out there, may I just say how thankful I am that I got out of security when I did. Because even when you're right...you're wrong.
 
Jade Falcon said:
I personally can't think of anyone I'd want more as a security chief than this. The sheer amount of training, skills, calmness under pressure, organization, and discipline that it takes to be a Secret Service Agent, in any capacity (regardless of past scandals), is off the charts.

I think they fired him to cover their own ass. It was obvious that he was good enough to serve under (not one, but two) PRESIDENTS....now the guy gets fired because some belligerent idiot won't leave peacefully when told to?

I don't think so. This stinks to high heaven of the Knicks ownership being a dumpster fire. I hope Bendetto sues.

That being said, there is the possibility that Bendetto let his security personnel get lax in their training and how to handle situations like this. But this is the Knicks, so even if that is their reasoning, I'm not sure I'd believe it.

Since I'm the minority in this thread of thinking Oakley got what he deserved, then it's pretty pointless arguing logic here. It seems most of the answers in this thread use the same kind of logic that school children argue with.

But man.....watching the footage that's out there, may I just say how thankful I am that I got out of security when I did. Because even when you're right...you're wrong.
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Why do you think this? I can see why everyone else is siding with Oakley since he went on to do interviews and there is just a general disdain for everything James Dolan. We do not know what went on before Oakley is surrounded by 6 to 7 security members because none of the videos show the start of the altercations, unless of course the start is to send 6 to 7 people to remove Oakley which seems like it would be more likely start a big incident then sending one or two people to ask him to remove himself from the arena. So it just leaves me curious on to how you came to the conclusion you did regarding Oakley.
 
Rhal said:
Why do you think this? I can see why everyone else is siding with Oakley since he went on to do interviews and there is just a general disdain for everything James Dolan. We do not know what went on before Oakley is surrounded by 6 to 7 security members because none of the videos show the start of the altercations, unless of course the start is to send 6 to 7 people to remove Oakley which seems like it would be more likely start a big incident then sending one or two people to ask him to remove himself from the arena. So it just leaves me curious on to how you came to the conclusion you did regarding Oakley.
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Several things.

1) The MSG is PRIVATE property. Private. Dolan has THE sole authority to decide who comes in and leaves his arena. He can kick the Pope out if he wants to after blessing the crowd. He owns it, it's his decision. Do not let the fact that MSG is used for public venues fool you into believing that anyone can just come and go as they please. That is NOT the case, and there are extensive Private Property laws that explain this.

So the idea that Oakley had a RIGHT to be there because he bought a ticket, or because he's a "legend" or any of that other nonsense is irrelevant. Ultimately, DOLAN decides who comes into HIS arena. Period.

2) It matters not one bit how many security guards come and confront you. 100 or 3, it doesn't matter a bit. You were asked to leave, and I have NO doubt that he was asked peacefully to leave. Even the most incompetent group of security in the country knows that you approach things verbally and non-aggressively BEFORE you move to physical contact.

When you poke a man in the face...and I don't care if he called you every racial slur in the book, called your mother a fat whore, whatever....you have escalated that confrontation from verbal to physical. And then you follow it up with pushes......and you can't figure out why security had to get physical with you and literally drag you out of the building?

Come on man. This whole "well, he wasn't caught on camera before then being irrational" argument is bullshit. I can tell you what he WAS caught on camera being: belligerent and physical.

And that is why he was removed.

I didn't even know who Dolan and Oakley were before now (80s basketball was well before my time, and I never cared who owned MSG). But it sounds to me like Oakley has a history of getting into fights with people. This kind of behavior from him, therefore, should not come as a surprise, and it shouldn't come as a surprise when someone his size is confronted by security when he's standing yelling at someone.

Don't yell at someone, and sure as fuck don't get physical.....and you'll be fine. Not hard to do.

That being said, the Knicks were 9-40 something yesterday when I saw their record while looking for something unrelated. I can't imagine that is easy on anyone, and I have no doubt that it's most likely Dolan's fault.

But his team's record, and how he conducts the affairs of his building, are two separate issues.
 
Here's a more extensive, detailed article about the incident. I just found it; haven't read it yet.

http://deadspin.com/knicks-claim-charles-oakley-said-all-of-you-suck-dolan-1792234698

EDIT:

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Yep. Oakley was being a dick. Don't act like a dick, and you'll be fine.

It really isn't hard to do, folks. Real life is not the internet: there are rules and basic courtesy when you go out in public that you have to obey and follow.
 
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If every person that was acting like a loud mouth A-hole, possibly due to a few drinks, was removed from sporting events, all the stadiums would be half empty.

I am not condoning bad behavior, just making a point that Oakley was a target, not the real problem.

This was an abuse of power by Dolan. There is very little evidence to back up Dolan targeting of Oakley. What I do see in the video is a lot of people looking in Oakleys direction. But not one person that is behaving in a manner that indicates they feel threatened by Oakley, or that they are endanger. And this includes all of the fans that are standing very close to Oakley.

How many people would be standing so close to Oakley if they felt threatened? None, they all would be leaving the area. Dolan has an agenda against Oakley, and is abusing his power. Fuck Dolan.
 
oldfisherman said:
If every person that was acting like a loud mouth A-hole, possibly due to a few drinks, was removed from sporting events, all the stadiums would be half empty.

I am not condoning bad behavior, just making a point that Oakley was a target, not the real problem.

This was an abuse of power by Dolan. There is very little evidence to back up Dolan targeting of Oakley. What I do see in the video is a lot of people looking in Oakleys direction. But not one person that is behaving in a manner that indicates they feel threatened by Oakley, or that they are endanger. And this includes all of the fans that are standing very close to Oakley.

How many people would be standing so close to Oakley if they felt threatened? None, they all would be leaving the area. Dolan has an agenda against Oakley, and is abusing his power. Fuck Dolan.
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ummm, I guess I saw different things. Dolan maybe a super ass, I really don't know. Don't really care either. But he was not the guy shoving people around. I have no idea WTF is bothering Oakley, and again, don't really care either. I just have one question in my mind after viewing the incident, What the hell did Oakley think was going to happen when he starts shoving people around?
It looks like a reasonable projection happened! I just wonder if he saw it coming, or he maybe he doesn't much care either.
 
What I gather is Oakley told the guard not to touch him and the guard didn't listen...escalated from there. As for verbal abuse....it's New York City...that place loves verbal abuse at a Knicks game...Dolan acted like a mob boss
 
riverman said:
What I gather is Oakley told the guard not to touch him and the guard didn't listen...escalated from there. As for verbal abuse....it's New York City...that place loves verbal abuse at a Knicks game...Dolan acted like a mob boss
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What the fuck?

Am I the only one in this thread with an OUNCE of common sense and reason?

It's Security's JOB to remove the subject from the building when requested by ownership (Dolan). That is by any means necessary.

He obviously WASN'T going to leave, since he was already asked numerous times. What the fuck are they supposed to do? Just stand there and stare at him?

I swear to God....it's like some people just give a pass to others based on popularity, and then categorize everything else into a box of emotion based on what they FEEL is right or wrong. Instead of what the laws and procedures actually ARE.

THIS is why security and police never win. Even when they're right....they're somehow wrong.

I'm telling you right now: if Dame ever acts like this in the Rose Garden 25 years from now, I'll be embarrassed and ashamed; regardless of what the Blazers record is. And I sure as fuck won't be giving him a pass for ANYTHING.

This fucking clown yelled at people, brought race into the equation, poked a guy in the face, and then pushed several people..........and it's Security's fault?

Get the fuck outta here.
 
James Dolan does not own the Knicks or Madison Square Garden Company, he is the executive chairman.

Dolan probably does own some shares in this large publicly traded company. However, after doing a search of the major stockholders, I could not find his name on the list of owners with 1% or more.

In short, Dolan manages the company and the MSG, Knicks, Rangers, Radio City Music Hall, & Rockettes, but owns very little of them.

The largest stockholder is Lazard Asset Management LLC with 9.66% of the shares.
 
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oldfisherman said:
James Dolan does not own the Knicks or Madison Square Garden Company, he is the executive chairman.

Dolan probably does own some shares in this large publicly traded company. However, after doing a search of the major stockholders, I could not find his name on the list of owners with 1% or more.

In short, Dolan manages the company and the MSG, Knicks, Rangers, Radio City Music Hall, & Rockettes, but owns very little of them.

The largest stockholder is Lazard Asset Management LLC with 9.66% of the shares.
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Executive Chairman pretty much means it's his. When he's in the building, HE calls the shots. Not his shareholders. There's nobody higher in the company than him.

This is a mute point: private property is private property. Period. And MSG is private property. And Dolan, as the most Senior Executive in MSG, calls the shots on what happens with MSG on an event-by-event basis. This isn't a sit-down with the board of directors.

It's private property, and he calls the shots. Period. Trying to nitpick technicalities is pointless.
 
oldfisherman said:
Here is the link , since you do not believe me.

http://investors.morningstar.com/ow...MSG&region=usa&culture=en-US&ownerCountry=USA
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You didn't read the link from MSG Company that I posted....did you?

http://www.themadisonsquaregardencompany.com/our-company/leadership/james-l-dolan.html
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James L. Dolan is Executive Chairman of The Madison Square Garden Company (MSG)

In his role at MSG, Mr. Dolan is responsible for the Company's overall growth strategy and oversight of all of its operations. He also serves as governor to the National Basketball Association and the National Hockey League on behalf of the New York Knicks and New York Rangers.

In addition to its portfolio of landmark venues, MSG owns and operates professional sports teams, the New York Knicks
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Seems pretty clear cut to me. He runs the joint. He runs the team. He signs the pay checks.

"Shareholders" are not the same as being on the Board of Directors; of which he is also the most Senior member of. The Board of Directors call the shots; not the shareholders. The shareholders just own stock; they don't actually operate or run the company.

Think of it like a timeshare: yes, you have a contract that you can use your timeshare when you want....but you don't own the resort, or even your suite. And the resort/company that owns the resort can cancel your contract at any time they want.

DOLAN is the boss. Like him or not. He's. The. Boss.

The only way he's NOT the boss, is if the Board of Directors casts a vote and ousts him. But that's a complicated process, and he would most likely still retain primary shareholder assets
("Stock").
 
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Show me where Dolan owns any shares of Madison Square Garden Co stock. I will try to help you.

There are about $45 million MSGco in shares held by "insiders" (Which is probably Dolan and other family members, maybe). And about $4.6+ billion in publicly traded stocks, of which Dolan is not listed. At most, Dolan owns less than 1%.

Also, the large shareholder funds and institutions do have a say on the Board of directors.
 
Jade Falcon said:
AND he's the Founder of the company.
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From what I've read, his father founded the company. Dolan was basically just given the Knicks and some other properties to run--he had no hand in creating any of the value.
 
oldfisherman said:
Show me where Dolan owns any shares of Madison Square Garden Co stock. I will try to help you.

There are about $45 million MSGco in shares held by "insiders" (Which is probably Dolan and other family members, maybe). And about $4.6+ billion in publicly traded stocks, of which Dolan is not listed. At most, Dolan owns less than 1%.

Also, the large shareholder funds and institutions do have a say on the Board of directors.
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You're STILL not getting this. For God's sake, READ THIS:

In his role at MSG, Mr. Dolan is responsible for the Company's overall growth strategy and oversight of all of its operations. He also serves as governor to the National Basketball Association and the National Hockey League on behalf of the New York Knicks and New York Rangers.

In addition to its portfolio of landmark venues, MSG owns and operates professional sports teams, the New York Knicks
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Actually fucking READ that. Read it. You CANNOT possibly argue what is right there in plain English.

He is responsible for oversight of all of it's operations ("He is in charge of ALL event and company operations"), he serves as Governor to the NBA on behalf of the Knicks ("he represents the New York Knicks on behalf of the NBA"), and in his position as EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN ("Top Dog") of MSG Company, MSG Company OWNS AND OPERATES THE NEW YORK KNICKS.

Nowhere in there does it say ANYTHING about shareholders. And it's from their own goddamn company website!

And assuming that what you're saying is true, I will bet you $20 dollars that Dolan owns the majority of the stock, out of his own pocket through either his personal wealth or other owned companies ("shareholders") in MSG. Almost ALL Executive Officers, and especially Founders of companies, do this to consolidate power and control in the company when it goes Public.

Facebook is a public company with shareholders....but Mark Zuckerberg still owns the majority of the stock in the company.

Just stop this nonsense. For fuck's sake...do you believe the sky is blue or not?

I absolutely cannot break this down any more simply than that. At all. He's the head-haunch-o. What he says, goes. PERIOD. Especially when it comes to booting some irate idiot from MSG Arena.

Those security guards everyone keeps blaming? He signs their boss' boss' boss' paychecks.

And in fact...apparently, he fires them too!

Just stop this nonsense. You're trying to nitpick technicalities here because everyone hates Dolan. Stop this bullshit already. HE'S THE BOSS.

Minstrel said:
From what I've read, his father founded the company. Dolan was basically just given the Knicks and some other properties to run--he had no hand in creating any of the value.
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Fine. Whatever. HE'S STILL THE BOSS.
 
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