Clingan poll

[Rastapopoulos]

Last game tonight.
Im actually expecting his best game yet. It seems he has improved every game snd im loving what be bring to the court.
He is actually quicker than he looks. He has great instincts which gives him that fast first step or lean. I think it makes up for his slower “Prodding” some seem to be concerned about and when he plays with real pga that understand the importance of his involvement? I see good things in the future.

Funny, I expect him not to play. Last game (unless it's the final) is traditionally when the guys who haven't had a chance to play get big minutes so they can show their wares to the non-NBA teams that send scouts to Summer League. I will be surprised if Clingan, Murray, Rupert and even possibly Minaya get minutes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

And if your best rebounder is out jacking threes he's not inside getting rebounds.

Well. yes, but it also means that THEIR best rebounder and shotblocker is sucked out of the paint to guard him.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Well. yes, but it also means that THEIR best rebounder and shotblocker is sucked out of the paint to guard him.

Not if I'm coaching against him and he's a 30%
3pt shooter. My big will be down grabbing those sweet rebounds.

 

[wizenheimer]

Well. yes, but it also means that THEIR best rebounder and shotblocker is sucked out of the paint to guard him.

that didn't happen, at all, when Nurkic was gunning up three's at a career high and shooting 36%. He was open all the time because Nurkic shooting three's was never a concern of any defense

 

[beast blazer]

Like weeks ago before the draft, everyone is acting like they figured it out about Clingan. Too slow. Won't be a great shot blocker. No passing ability. Sit back and enjoy the process of his development.

We got a really good one here.

He had an elite block % in college of 12.6%. It was more than double Zach Edey's.

For comparsion, Mutumbo's career single season high was 8.8%

 

[wizenheimer]

He had an elite block % in college of 12.6%. It was more than double Zach Edey's.

For comparsion, Mutumbo's career single season high was 8.8%

in his final year at Georgetown, Mutumbo averaged 5 blocks/36; last season Clingan averaged 4 blocks/36

* Adonal Foyle averaged 6.4 blocks/game his junior season. Yeah, 6.4
* Alonzo Mourning averaged 5.4/36 his senior year at Georgetown
* 6'9 Jarvis Varnado averaged 6 blocks/36 his junior year in the SEC
* Emeka Okafor averaged 5.1 blocks/36 his sophomore season at UConn
* Theo Ratliff average 5.6 blocks/36 his last season at Wyoming
* Hasheem Thabeet averaged 5.2 blocks/36 his sophomore season at UConn

looking at UConn history, Clingan isn't in the top-10 in blocks/game



yes, he had the 3rd highest block rate in UConn history but that is often a list filled with lower minute players who didn't have to pace themselves. Just about everybody I listed averaged in the 32-34 minute range. Clingan averaged 17.6 minutes over two seasons and 22.5 last season

all that's not to say he won't be the best rim protector Portland has had in a while, but he sure won't be posting the same block percentage in the NBA he had at UConn

 

[beast blazer]

in his final year at Georgetown, Mutumbo averaged 5 blocks/36; last season Clingan averaged 4 blocks/36

* Adonal Foyle averaged 6.4 blocks/game his junior season. Yeah, 6.4
* Alonzo Mourning averaged 5.4/36 his senior year at Georgetown
* 6'9 Jarvis Varnado averaged 6 blocks/36 his junior year in the SEC
* Emeka Okafor averaged 5.1 blocks/36 his sophomore season at UConn
* Theo Ratliff average 5.6 blocks/36 his last season at Wyoming
* Hasheem Thabeet averaged 5.2 blocks/36 his sophomore season at UConn

looking at UConn history, Clingan isn't in the top-10 in blocks/game

View attachment 65351

yes, he had the 3rd highest block rate in UConn history but that is often a list filled with lower minute players who didn't have to pace themselves. Just about everybody I listed averaged in the 32-34 minute range. Clingan averaged 17.6 minutes over two seasons and 22.5 last season

all that's not to say he won't be the best rim protector Portland has had in a while, but he sure won't be posting the same block percentage in the NBA he had at UConn

Maybe Donovan's block percentage will go UP in the NBA. But you want to be a "The Donovan Clingan Block Percentage Future is Half-Empty" kinda guy....

 

[kjironman1]

And if your best rebounder is out jacking threes he's not inside getting rebounds.

He should honestly probably be shooting 38% to 40% in competitive drills before they even consider having him out there.

It would be nice if he could guard a big on the perimeter though.

To me it's the position from which the shot is coming from. For an example take Jokic. He doesn't shoot 3's from the corner much. He does however shoot a high percentage from the top of the arc. This allows him to be in position to pass the ball and run the offense through the center. Lots of different looks can come from that area. Teams have to get someone out there to guard him because he's deadly from there. Then if and when he passes out of that position he can break towards the rim either for roll type plays and or be in position to rebound. This is actually flex/flow offense refined.

I say get Clingan comfortable taking shots from the top area and or just left or right and let the rest fall into place. We all have seen he can make good decisions with the ball and has the ability to pass. Denver also uses this tactic to get Jokic down the floor on defense quicker and it saves him some mileage.

 

[kjironman1]

I think the main thing for him now is to become a better FT shooter.

Absolutely!

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Funny, I expect him not to play. Last game (unless it's the final) is traditionally when the guys who haven't had a chance to play get big minutes so they can show their wares to the non-NBA teams that send scouts to Summer League. I will be surprised if Clingan, Murray, Rupert and even possibly Minaya get minutes.

Not funny.
Correct.
I didn't know thats how they typically do things but it makes sense.
I cant say I wasn't disappointed though.

 

[wizenheimer]

Maybe Donovan's block percentage will go UP in the NBA. But you want to be a "The Donovan Clingan Block Percentage Future is Half-Empty" kinda guy....

get a grip on reality, man

Clingan's 'career' block percentage at UConn was 12.6%. Here are the highest career block rates in NBA/ABA history



notice how most of those guys played when the average number of three's shot by a team in an NBA game was around 15 (or less). Last season, the average was 35. So, 20 more three's shot in a game means 15-20 fewer blockable shots (pace factor). But Clingan is going to land in the NBA and shatter the career blocked shot rate by over 60%?

if you want to just talk single season record, there have only been 4 times when an NBA player eclipsed the 10% mark:

 

[PtldPlatypus]

if you want to just talk single season record, there have only been 4 times when an NBA player eclipsed the 10% mark:

View attachment 65355

Rookie Wemby just put up the highest non-Manute block rate in NBA history? We're in for a long next 15 years...

 

[wizenheimer]

Rookie Wemby just put up the highest non-Manute block rate in NBA history? We're in for a long next 15 years...

it's crazy

he was called the best prospect since Lebron....a generational talent...a unicorn

ok then....but on top of all that, he has a rookie season than exceeds all those sky-high expectations....yikes!!

 

[Freshtown]

Reminder

 

[inconceivable]

it's crazy

he was called the best prospect since Lebron....a generational talent...a unicorn

ok then....but on top of all that, he has a rookie season than exceeds all those sky-high expectations....yikes!!

Watch the Spurs get Cooper Flagg and form another dynasty with him Castle and Victor

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Watch the Spurs get Cooper Flagg and form another dynasty with him Castle and Victor

I wouldn’t be surprised. I had a feeling in my jellies that Vic would be a Spur.

 

[blazerfan11]

Every Single Donovan Clingan Block From Summer League | Portland Trail Blazers

 

[BankTeller]

There's a major hitch in how you see things going if we put Clingan on the three point line. At that point a PF would be on him and a C would be on Ayton. These lineups with Ayton and Clingan that people keep fantasizing about don't work on defense and they don't really provide us with enough of an advantage on offense to balance that out.

Deandre is nowhere close to as mobile as KAT and Minny has had a lot of problems making the KAT/Gobert combo work when teams want to punish them for it on D. Also neither DA or Clingan have the kind of perimeter offensive repertoire that KAT does to try and balance things out and again teams were able to play Gobert off of the floor a lot last season or at least make Minny choose between KAT and Rudy.

If both Clingan and Ayton come out this season hitting efficient numbers from the three point line and doing it with a decent amount of volume then we might have something that gives opponents headaches, especially if I'm wrong and Ayton can defend really well on the perimeter against the second least mobile guy in an opponent's lineup. Both of those situations seem like they have long odds.

Oh no, I don’t expect him exclusively at the 3 pt line, if that’s what you thought I meant. The threat of him being a 3 pt shooter changes everything. A DA-Clingan lineup will happen for, what, maybe 6-8 mins max a night? All the things you say are true and are a worry if that is something we relied on heavily.

I’m just saying Clingan flashing the potential of becoming a decent shooter allows us to use a throwaway year on experimenting on the two-big lineup and thinking about what the next building pieces are.

My post was more about being more excited about Clingan as a prospect than I was prior, and the rest of my post was just thinking about the possibilities out loud.

 

[blazerkor]

Oh no, I don’t expect him exclusively at the 3 pt line, if that’s what you thought I meant. The threat of him being a 3 pt shooter changes everything. A DA-Clingan lineup will happen for, what, maybe 6-8 mins max a night? All the things you say are true and are a worry if that is something we relied on heavily.

I’m just saying Clingan flashing the potential of becoming a decent shooter allows us to use a throwaway year on experimenting on the two-big lineup and thinking about what the next building pieces are.

My post was more about being more excited about Clingan as a prospect than I was prior, and the rest of my post was just thinking about the possibilities out loud.

Yeah, I had you all wrong. I thought you were saying that we'd put Clingan in the corner and try to run those two together for like 20 minutes a game or something. You are right, if Clingan can just be a threat from deep it will make playing them together for limited minutes doable, whereas if he can't the spacing will be horrendous on offense. With defending the three point line being the biggest theoretical drawback when those guys together.

Still, this isn't a season where most of us are expecting a ton of wins so this is the season to figure this kind of stuff out in reality. Should be fun to see.

 

[BankTeller]

Yeah, I had you all wrong. I thought you were saying that we'd put Clingan in the corner and try to run those two together for like 20 minutes a game or something. You are right, if Clingan can just be a threat from deep it will make playing them together for limited minutes doable, whereas if he can't the spacing will be horrendous on offense. With defending the three point line being the biggest theoretical drawback when those guys together.

Still, this isn't a season where most of us are expecting a ton of wins so this is the season to figure this kind of stuff out in reality. Should be fun to see.

Absolutely. Most people aren’t going to care about anything out past the season, but I’ve always found it fun to be a bit forward thinking and explore what could happen.



Apparently, Schmitz agreed with the national consensus and people like me were wrong. This video has me hyped about what we landed with in a bad draft class.

Imagine this man with a 3 ball and shot 36% on high volume. Look at some of his passes from as far out as the 3 point line. Instead of these guys, he had Shae cutting to the basket with his 45”+ vertical. I also like the idea of having Clingan giving an entry pass to Avdija when he has a smaller guy in the post (who might give it back to Clingan if he sprints to the basket). And of course, any flashes of a 3 will rapidly speed up Scoot’s development. I haven’t been mad at the screen setting so far either.

I think the building blocks are there to make a play-in or maybe even playoff appearance in ‘25-‘26.

 

[wizenheimer]

I’m just saying Clingan flashing the potential of becoming a decent shooter allows us to use a throwaway year on experimenting on the two-big lineup and thinking about what the next building pieces are.

My post was more about being more excited about Clingan as a prospect than I was prior, and the rest of my post was just thinking about the possibilities out loud.

ok now...this is from summer league right, the "potential flashing" you saw??

In SL, Clingan shot 35.7% on FG's, 23% on three's, and 50% on FT's. Look at those numbers...they are bad. The sub 36% on FG's for a 7'2 C is bad. 23% on three's is bad. 50% on FT's is especially bad considering it is a pretty solid predictor of actual shooting skills. And Clingan didn't post those numbers against Jokic and Gobert and Saboni and AD. He posted them against SL bigs at the level of Duop Reath or worse

in terms of rebounding, rim protection, and paint defense, I thought Clingan looked better than my expectations. But his offense and shooting was miles behind those things

 

[HailBlazers]

ok now...this is from summer league right, the "potential flashing" you saw??

In SL, Clingan shot 35.7% on FG's, 23% on three's, and 50% on FT's. Look at those numbers...they are bad. The sub 36% on FG's for a 7'2 C is bad. 23% on three's is bad. 50% on FT's is especially bad considering it is a pretty solid predictor of actual shooting skills. And Clingan didn't post those numbers against Jokic and Gobert and Saboni and AD. He posted them against SL bigs at the level of Duop Reath or worse

in terms of rebounding, rim protection, and paint defense, I thought Clingan looked better than my expectations. But his offense and shooting was miles behind those things

You're right, he's so bad at free throws he should stop taking them. No sense in attempting to get better.

 

[wizenheimer]

You're right, he's so bad at free throws he should stop taking them. No sense in attempting to get better.

snark...I get it

but, I didn't say anything of the sort. Nor did I imply he shouldn't practice FT shooting. I simply questioned how shooting like he did in SL was flashing potential as a decent shooter

 

[blazerkor]

ok now...this is from summer league right, the "potential flashing" you saw??

In SL, Clingan shot 35.7% on FG's, 23% on three's, and 50% on FT's. Look at those numbers...they are bad. The sub 36% on FG's for a 7'2 C is bad. 23% on three's is bad. 50% on FT's is especially bad considering it is a pretty solid predictor of actual shooting skills. And Clingan didn't post those numbers against Jokic and Gobert and Saboni and AD. He posted them against SL bigs at the level of Duop Reath or worse

in terms of rebounding, rim protection, and paint defense, I thought Clingan looked better than my expectations. But his offense and shooting was miles behind those things

I agree with this second to last sentence and you don't say anything I disagree with in that last sentence but he also exceeded my expectations as a passer on offense and looks like he's going to be a really good screen setter. I would have liked to see him roll harder but there are a lot of things on offense I would have liked to see that I didn't... his passing and screen setting though are really nice.

 

[HailBlazers]

snark...I get it

but, I didn't say anything of the sort. Nor did I imply he shouldn't practice FT shooting. I simply questioned how shooting like he did in SL was flashing potential as a decent shooter

Not the analogy...

His mechanics look good and he hit some open threes. Might as well shoot as many as he can, see if it can become a thing. Stats be darned

 

[BankTeller]

ok now...this is from summer league right, the "potential flashing" you saw??

In SL, Clingan shot 35.7% on FG's, 23% on three's, and 50% on FT's. Look at those numbers...they are bad. The sub 36% on FG's for a 7'2 C is bad. 23% on three's is bad. 50% on FT's is especially bad considering it is a pretty solid predictor of actual shooting skills. And Clingan didn't post those numbers against Jokic and Gobert and Saboni and AD. He posted them against SL bigs at the level of Duop Reath or worse

in terms of rebounding, rim protection, and paint defense, I thought Clingan looked better than my expectations. But his offense and shooting was miles behind those things

Yeah, of course his offense and shooting is miles behind his offense. I didn’t disagree what anything you said.

He shot nine 3’s overall in college, and he shot more of them in SL. I don’t see a broken shot. I am assuming that if he’s willing to shoot them in SL, he’s going to not care about shooting them in the NBA and air-balling a few, maybe even a lot of 3’s. That’s the only way he’ll get better at them. Going from having assumptions that he would be no better than Rudy Gobert on offense to seeing him be able to do what he did, that’s enough flashes for me to be excited about. It’s not like those were his numbers half way through his rookie season. The numbers don’t particularly matter to me this early in his career, I’m just happy to see he is willing to try some of the things he’s done so far.

Yeah, you, in particular, dictate how you feel about a player or prospect based on numbers (imo anyway, correct me if you feel different). I’m kind of semi—the same way, relying on numbers, but I also use intangibles, work ethic, and things like that I see in a player to be a bit forward thinking to what a player can be when it matters, and that’s kind if how I judge a prospect.

It’d be like me and you arguing over any stock currently at the top of the NASDAQ ten years ago, where I go “yooo this company is going to be worth $___b in the future because I see *blah blah blah*” and you go “but it’s a shit company right now, look at the stock price”. Fine, but if I see potential in the technology, I trust the management team, and I already know it is being used in everyday life, I’m excited about the company regardless of the stock price.

But in the case your first question wasn’t rhetorical, yes, the flashing potential I saw was indeed what I see from SL lol. Do I think Clingan is going to shoot 35% half way through his rookie year? I do not. The other two shooting stats don’t matter to me as long as it gets better every year, and that is obviously a multi-year game. I honestly don’t mind him shooting 25% his first year as long as he has some volume. Have him shoot three 3’s a night. If he averaged 25% from 3 on 3PA, he would only have a 42% chance of missing all 3 per game lol.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah, of course his offense and shooting is miles behind his offense. I didn’t disagree what anything you said.

He shot nine 3’s overall in college, and he shot more of them in SL. I don’t see a broken shot. I am assuming that if he’s willing to shoot them in SL, he’s going to not care about shooting them in the NBA and air-balling a few, maybe even a lot of 3’s. That’s the only way he’ll get better at them. Going from having assumptions that he would be no better than Rudy Gobert on offense to seeing him be able to do what he did, that’s enough flashes for me to be excited about. It’s not like those were his numbers half way through his rookie season. The numbers don’t particularly matter to me this early in his career, I’m just happy to see he is willing to try some of the things he’s done so far.

Yeah, you, in particular, dictate how you feel about a player or prospect based on numbers (imo anyway, correct me if you feel different). I’m kind of semi—the same way, relying on numbers, but I also use intangibles, work ethic, and things like that I see in a player to be a bit forward thinking to what a player can be when it matters, and that’s kind if how I judge a prospect.

It’d be like me and you arguing over any stock currently at the top of the NASDAQ ten years ago, where I go “yooo this company is going to be worth $___b in the future because I see *blah blah blah*” and you go “but it’s a shit company right now, look at the stock price”. Fine, but if I see potential in the technology, I trust the management team, and I already know it is being used in everyday life, I’m excited about the company regardless of the stock price.

But in the case your first question wasn’t rhetorical, yes, the flashing potential I saw was indeed what I see from SL lol. Do I think Clingan is going to shoot 35% half way through his rookie year? I do not. The other two shooting stats don’t matter to me as long as it gets better every year, and that is obviously a multi-year game. I honestly don’t mind him shooting 25% his first year as long as he has some volume. Have him shoot three 3’s a night. If he averaged 25% from 3 on 3PA, he would only have a 42% chance of missing all 3 per game lol.

here's why I don't agree with the notion of Clingan shooting three's: I think it's a bad idea because it takes him out of offensive rebounding position and offensive rebounds are just about the most valuable possessions in the NBA



coincidentally, Jusuf Nurkic had his highest 3 pt shot rate in 2022-23 at 24%; and he shot 36% on three's. Yet, he was always open on his three's because defenses preferred him chucking from the line rather than being in offensive rebounding position; they encouraged it. And, that season when he had his highest rate of three point attempts was also the season when he had his lowest offensive rebounding rate

I want no part of Meyers Leonard creeping into Clingan's game

 

[BankTeller]

here's why I don't agree with the notion of Clingan shooting three's: I think it's a bad idea because it takes him out of offensive rebounding position and offensive rebounds are just about the most valuable possessions in the NBA

View attachment 65407

coincidentally, Jusuf Nurkic had his highest 3 pt shot rate in 2022-23 at 24%; and he shot 36% on three's. Yet, he was always open on his three's because defenses preferred him chucking from the line rather than being in offensive rebounding position; they encouraged it. And, that season when he had his highest rate of three point attempts was also the season when he had his lowest offensive rebounding rate

I want no part of Meyers Leonard creeping into Clingan's game

I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU’RE SAYING LOLOL.

The alternative to that isn’t to not let him shoot 3’s at all. Bigs have to be able to shoot 3’s in today’s game imo. I said nothing about spending 100% of their time on the floor exclusively behind the line.

You chose Meyers because it fits your argument.

“I want no part of Lopez, KP, JJJ creeping into Clingan’s game.”—you could’ve easily used any of those names, I don’t think any of those guys spend their time exclusively at the 3pt line either. Even the guys like Turner or Embiid, who actually do spend a bit too much time out there.

Yes, of course you don’t want your 7’2 center that far out all the time when he will almost always be one of the biggest guys when he is the paint. Players at every size now need to be multi-skilled, shooting is an incredibly valuable skill. To your point, yes we don’t want him to ever become a shoot first big. No shit about wanting no part of Leonard’s game creeping into Clingan LOL. Did you say something bold with that? No one is disagreeing with you dude.

I want many parts of Nikola Jokic’s game creeping into Clingan’s game.

 

[Hoopguru]

I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU’RE SAYING LOLOL.

The alternative to that isn’t to not let him shoot 3’s at all. Bigs have to be able to shoot 3’s in today’s game imo. I said nothing about spending 100% of their time on the floor exclusively behind the line.

You chose Meyers because it fits your argument.

“I want no part of Lopez, KP, JJJ creeping into Clingan’s game.”—you could’ve easily used any of those names, I don’t think any of those guys spend their time exclusively at the 3pt line either. Even the guys like Turner or Embiid, who actually do spend a bit too much time out there.

Yes, of course you don’t want your 7’2 center that far out all the time when he will almost always be one of the biggest guys when he is the paint. Players at every size now need to be multi-skilled, shooting is an incredibly valuable skill. To your point, yes we don’t want him to ever become a shoot first big. No shit about wanting no part of Leonard’s game creeping into Clingan LOL. Did you say something bold with that? No one is disagreeing with you dude.

I want many parts of Nikola Jokic’s game creeping into Clingan’s game.

Jokic is the middle school kid that was fat and slow but could shoot left open. BBB IQ, and he could also pass ,and had a good touch around the rim. He still cant get of the ground much and isn't real quick and sos so on the d side. Block Lobster, spend time learning to block out and block shots. It's pretty clear he was never asked to spend much time shooting fall aways or developing a touch.

 

[Whyachi]

ok now...this is from summer league right, the "potential flashing" you saw??

In SL, Clingan shot 35.7% on FG's, 23% on three's, and 50% on FT's. Look at those numbers...they are bad. The sub 36% on FG's for a 7'2 C is bad. 23% on three's is bad. 50% on FT's is especially bad considering it is a pretty solid predictor of actual shooting skills. And Clingan didn't post those numbers against Jokic and Gobert and Saboni and AD. He posted them against SL bigs at the level of Duop Reath or worse

in terms of rebounding, rim protection, and paint defense, I thought Clingan looked better than my expectations. But his offense and shooting was miles behind those things

swing swing shoot, swing swing shoot. It's the modern standard for NBA offense. Hart haters would get mad at Josh for breaking the chain of swing swing shoot.

"Get all the rebounds, guard the toughest players, pick up Anfernee's blown assignments, and gosh darnit shoot the 25 footer when you're open!"

the NBA is harder then it appears on TV. There's this thing called being gassed. When players are banging for positioning & boards, playing intense defense, that deep shot becomes tougher for the hustle guys, because they're trying to catch their breath.

Why did Hart's 3 point shooting instantly improve in New York? Ummm.. maybe his new teammates play better defense, and he wasn't stuck on an island wrestling with multiple scoring threats by himself ??

naaah, the boxscore doesn't say anything about players not offering defensive effort. It says 0-2 from deep. That should read at least 2-8 from distance every game, because I want those 2 bonus points for my fantasy team !!