Comparing Asik and Lopez

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TowelBoy said:
If a team with an MVP-caliber center can trade a very good center for 2-3 good pieces they need more, they've improved their balance.
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Who is the "MVP-caliber center" in your scenario? You started the thread. Defend it.
 
PapaG said:
Asik isn't a defensive player. A rebound guy, yes, but on defense, he's not good.
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When I say that makes more sense, I'm talking about Houston would get value in return. Trading Lopez for asik still creates a problem for Houston. Guys like Ryan Anderson, gasol or jump shooting PFs make sense. Trading a center that doesn't get hardly any playing time for another center that will probably not get the same playing time is a lateral move for them. That makes no sense!
 
Haha, I promise I have no agenda. Part of my overwhelming exciting about this team is leading me to think "what if" and mentally explore plausible ways to raise the ceiling from "feel-good story suddenly likely to reach a top-4 seed" to "the title favorite."

I watch a lot of hoops but confess I've never been particularly bright about the Xs and Os. I don't have the "eye" for it. Writers I tend to believe in (Zach Lowe is my favorite) tell me Asik is a brilliant defender, so I assume he would do what Lopez does (who was brought in solely to be a defensive anchor center) only better.

I don't think that's a radical position.
 
magnifier661 said:
When I say that makes more sense, I'm talking about Houston would get value in return. Trading Lopez for asik still creates a problem for Houston. Guys like Ryan Anderson, gasol or jump shooting PFs make sense. Trading a center that doesn't get hardly any playing time for another center that will probably not get the same playing time is a lateral move for them. That makes no sense!
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Disagree. Actually many of the national writers I've seen discuss Asik have stated that Houston would need to at least get a replacement big in return. Presumably a poor man's Asik who would be more content with those minutes and bring similar things, which is why I think Lopez would be a good starting point. I imagine their ideal return would be a lesser (than Asik) center, a draft pick or two, and at least one other rotation player.
 
TowelBoy said:
Haha, I promise I have no agenda. Part of my overwhelming exciting about this team is leading me to think "what if" and mentally explore plausible ways to raise the ceiling from "feel-good story suddenly likely to reach a top-4 seed" to "the title favorite."

I watch a lot of hoops but confess I've never been particularly bright about the Xs and Os. I don't have the "eye" for it. Writers I tend to believe in (Zach Lowe is my favorite) tell me Asik is a brilliant defender, so I assume he would do what Lopez does (who was brought in solely to be a defensive anchor center) only better.

I don't think that's a radical position.
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To end this discussion.

Lopez and asik on our team, or no asik at all. It's really that simple.
 
TowelBoy said:
Haha, I promise I have no agenda. Part of my overwhelming exciting about this team is leading me to think "what if" and mentally explore plausible ways to raise the ceiling from "feel-good story suddenly likely to reach a top-4 seed" to "the title favorite."

I watch a lot of hoops but confess I've never been particularly bright about the Xs and Os. I don't have the "eye" for it. Writers I tend to believe in (Zach Lowe is my favorite) tell me Asik is a brilliant defender, so I assume he would do what Lopez does (who was brought in solely to be a defensive anchor center) only better.

I don't think that's a radical position.
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So, you're just wishy-washy brainstorming for a better team.

I'll remember not to take your ideas seriously in the future. Perhaps let's not start a thread with every brain fart idea for a trade? There have been plenty of Asik-Lopez ideas here proposed in the last month.
 
Strenuus said:
To end this discussion.

Lopez and asik on our team, or no asik at all. It's really that simple.
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Obviously I would love both on the team. But I'm not willing to trade McCollum, Robinson, or any starters either. No Asik may indeed be the right answer, but I don't think that's because he's inferior to Lopez straight up.
 
TowelBoy said:
Haha, I promise I have no agenda. Part of my overwhelming exciting about this team is leading me to think "what if" and mentally explore plausible ways to raise the ceiling from "feel-good story suddenly likely to reach a top-4 seed" to "the title favorite."

I watch a lot of hoops but confess I've never been particularly bright about the Xs and Os. I don't have the "eye" for it. Writers I tend to believe in (Zach Lowe is my favorite) tell me Asik is a brilliant defender, so I assume he would do what Lopez does (who was brought in solely to be a defensive anchor center) only better.

I don't think that's a radical position.
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But we've beaten some of the best teams in the league with the talent we have now. I don't get why you think we aren't capable of doing that now? You are basing talent on last season'a numbers.

Looking at asik now is pure lunacy. Winning clubs don't do mid season trades unless it's for a superstar. So until you give good reason asik could blossom into some superstar, this debate is over.
 
TowelBoy said:
Disagree. Actually many of the national writers I've seen discuss Asik have stated that Houston would need to at least get a replacement big in return. Presumably a poor man's Asik who would be more content with those minutes and bring similar things, which is why I think Lopez would be a good starting point. I imagine their ideal return would be a lesser (than Asik) center, a draft pick or two, and at least one other rotation player.
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Gasol is the bigger talent in return, that rebounds, can post up when needed, play the 5 in spurts and pass well. How can you disagree he isn't a good fit? Are you crazy?!
 
PapaG said:
So, you're just wishy-washy brainstorming for a better team.

I'll remember not to take your ideas seriously in the future. Perhaps let's not start a thread with every brain fart idea for a trade? There have been plenty of Asik-Lopez ideas here proposed in the last month.
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I'm sorry my thread wasn't up to your standards. Don't have as much time for message boards as I used to, but I've been so excited by the team this week I wanted to immerse myself in some fan chatter again.
 
magnifier661 said:
But we've beaten some of the best teams in the league with the talent we have now. I don't get why you think we aren't capable of doing that now? You are basing talent on last season'a numbers.

Looking at asik now is pure lunacy. Winning clubs don't do mid season trades unless it's for a superstar. So until you give good reason asik could blossom into some superstar, this debate is over.
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That's a fair position. You're acting like just because we're currently playing like arguably the best team in the league, it means our title is all but guaranteed. Even if we assumed for discussion we were THE BEST team and would continue to be throughout the season (which I think is a stretch, but not out of the realm of possibility), I still wouldn't automatically turn a blind eye to opportunities to make us an even heavier favorite.
 
magnifier661 said:
Gasol is the bigger talent in return, that rebounds, can post up when needed, play the 5 in spurts and pass well. How can you disagree he isn't a good fit? Are you crazy?!
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I must have missed where Gasol was discussed in this thread. Are you saying he's a better fit for Houston than Lopez? Or a better fit for us than Asik?
 
TowelBoy said:
That's a fair position. You're acting like just because we're currently playing like arguably the best team in the league, it means our title is all but guaranteed. Even if we assumed for discussion we were THE BEST team and would continue to be throughout the season (which I think is a stretch, but not out of the realm of possibility), I still wouldn't automatically turn a blind eye to opportunities to make us an even heavier favorite.
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If you were caught up in here, I've said were the best since day one. They are just doing what I already expected.
 
magnifier661 said:
Congrats man!!! Well you haven't posted in here like 6 years? How would any of us know?
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I went through a brief heavy posting phase in July during bar prep. There was a girl poster maxiep was convinced was faking it. Intriguing stuff.

I also wanted Portland to pursue Tyreke Evans and Jermaine ONeal. Olshey knows better.
 
TowelBoy said:
I must have missed where Gasol was discussed in this thread. Are you saying he's a better fit for Houston than Lopez? Or a better fit for us than Asik?
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Gasol is a better fit for Houston than Lopez. Also, the chatter was Lin + Asik + filler for Nash and gasol
 
TowelBoy said:
I'm sorry my thread wasn't up to your standards. Don't have as much time for message boards as I used to, but I've been so excited by the team this week I wanted to immerse myself in some fan chatter again.
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So, in your first post back to the boards, you wanted to start a thread that advocated trading Robin Lopez for Asik?

I do think you're using this as training for your new job as an ambulance chaser. Not a bad idea, IMO.
 
TowelBoy said:
I went through a brief heavy posting phase in July during bar prep. There was a girl poster maxiep was convinced was faking it. Intriguing stuff.

I also wanted Portland to pursue Tyreke Evans and Jermaine ONeal. Olshey knows better.
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I wanted Jerm too. Maxiep is actually a guy and Evans is grossly overpaid.
 
magnifier661 said:
Gasol is a better fit for Houston than Lopez. Also, the chatter was Lin + Asik + filler for Nash and gasol
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I would agree Gasol is a better fit. And I haven't looked at the numbers, but the Lakers could probably offer more than we're willing to, you're right about that.

In this thread I wasn't necessarily assuming we had the best Asik package on the market. I was wondering if it's a deal we should make if we could.
 
PapaG said:
So, in your first post back to the boards, you wanted to start a thread that advocated trading Robin Lopez for Asik?

I do think you're using this as training for your new job as an ambulance chaser. Not a bad idea, IMO.
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Re-read the OP. I wasn't advocating the trade; in fact I said I had mixed feelings about it. Moreover, the purpose of the thread was to compare Lopez's and Asik's defensive abilities.
 
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TowelBoy said:
I think I did answer the value added question. If a team with an MVP-caliber center can trade a very good center for 2-3 good pieces they need more, they've improved their balance. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that NBA teams often make trades for chemistry reasons, and they might value getting the malcontent Asik out of town.

I don't know what you want me to say about the opportunity cost of losing Lopez. That issue is inherent in my central question of which center is better and by how much. If Asik is better, then by trading Lopez you get more than you give up. That's the definition of being better.
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Verdict: Guilty of a horrible idea. Sentencing will begin within the month. And may God have mercy on your soul.
 
Damnit I made the mistake of reading this thread; its made me dumber. Someone please kill it.
 
A fair three-way deal.

Trade ID #6369367

Houston trades: Omer Asik
Houston gets: Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen, Allen Crabbe

Philadelphia trades: Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen
Philadelphia gets: Meyers Leonard, Joel Freeland

Portland trades: Meyers Leonard, Joel Freeland, Allen Crabbe
Portland gets: Omer Asik

Philly should get an extra 2nd rounder or two to complete this deal but since they got a new GM, nobody on that team feels safe except for MWC.
 
Asik for Leonar_....absolutely. As long as Asik is willing to come off the bench.....which he is not
 
AmirIcon said:
A fair three-way deal.

Trade ID #6369367

Houston trades: Omer Asik
Houston gets: Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen, Allen Crabbe

Philadelphia trades: Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen
Philadelphia gets: Meyers Leonard, Joel Freeland

Portland trades: Meyers Leonard, Joel Freeland, Allen Crabbe
Portland gets: Omer Asik

Philly should get an extra 2nd rounder or two to complete this deal but since they got a new GM, nobody on that team feels safe except for MWC.
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If Philly were willing to accept that (which I doubt), I'd rather just trade for Hawes.
 
BTW--the idea of LA trading Gasol for Lin/Asik is silly. Howard already spent a year playing alongside Gasol, and didn't like it. I seriously doubt that Morey would irritate his prized signing by reprising that combo.
 
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