OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (3 Viewers)

[magnifier661]

One issue with this ... people travel over these county borders. Opening businesses completely in a neighboring county without taking some reasonable precautions, like masks, for instance, seems to open the strong possibility that the infection could be brought right back there.

I don't know. I think we just have to be more consistent, because people are going to go where the opportunities are and they're going to take the infection with them.

I think it’s absolutely healthy to be concerned and to question every government policy.

I think Phase 1 and phase 2 are still highly strict guidelines for those that have higher risk. In the end, there has to be a slow reopening and policies in place to mitigate, contact trace and test hot spots.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yeah. And taking this a step further ... if you own a business or an apartment complex, you don't want to lose customers. It's better, IMO, to push back payments than to say if you don't pay by the 5th you have to leave ... you don't know under those conditions whether or not you will be able to replace them.

You go from having something to nothing.

My car insurance gave us a 50 percent cut in premiums for the foreseeable future. I think that's sensible. Their workers are in the same boat as the people that are paying their salaries.

I thought a moratorium on these things made so much sense. I've heard people discuss it, but not much of our leadership. I wondered if I was missing something.

I kinda feel for the complexes though, since they also weren't getting a break of any kind on their mortgages. For rents to be forgiven, mortgages would have had to be delayed as well.

The credit union that holds my car payments extended offers to skip payments during the crisis (I declined; I'm still employed)--but I certainly saw nothing of the sort from our mortgage company. Real estate is such a foundational element of our economy that it should have been the first place governments should have looked to provide relief to the populace. Unfortunately, the banks have so much influence on the politicians that I don't think it was ever a legitimate consideration.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Thanks for taking the time to reply with something to actually discuss.

I'm not saying that there isn't a reason to be concerned over the economy. I don't believe that's what I said, and I apologize if it came off that way. I think actually being alive and being healthy supersede the economy, and that I don't think eliminating six figures of our population through death or disability is going to benefit the economy, either. I don't believe a few months of enduring a contracted economy in the interest of safety and health is a big price to pay for that. And I thought the things I suggested would keep individuals and small businesses afloat during the down turn, although, TBH, I live in Pennsylvania, where we've been shut down more than some states, and when I get to town once or twice a week, it seems about as busy as usual.

I checked the S&P before I posted this. It's down 10 percent this year, which isn't a lot considering what's been going on, to my way of thinking. I've read that

I guess I'm not a big believer in deficits being a huge issue. I follow a Keynesian approach. In addition, seeing how little regard our government has had to operating at a deficit and that we (and I believe most other countries) have been in debt for almost our entire history, that's not a big concern to me. It certainly isn't enough to override my concerns over people dying or becoming disabled.

Our country has money. Our government chooses to continue to lower taxes on those who benefit the most from what the United States has to offer (IMO) and who can most afford to contribute more, like we did in the 1950s and 60s. We had more than 600 billionaires in our country last year and 100 businesses made at least a billion in revenue.

Bankruptcies are concerning, except, in a lot of cases, many of the employees stay on and wind up becoming creditors or the company. When the economy comes back on, there still will be a need for what that company offered, meaning, to my way of thinking, either that business probably would return or another business offering a similar service would replace it.

I guess I think jobs are easier to replace than one's health or life. I think jobs return, but you can't resurrect people or heal their disability.

Thanks for actually engaging me on this.

First, No need to thank me. Its a breath of fresh air to be able to engage with someone of potential opposing viewpoints in a respectful manner.

So, I can agree with you on the deficit, though I acknowledge we seem to go on and on with it without real ramifications, even when we lost our top credit rating for a bit a couple years back (don't recall the year off hand). But at some point, there will be a collapse, no? The other factor to that is other countries buying up our debt. Countries we don't want to be in debt to. The larger our debt, the more we could potentially be wrapped into dealing with countries we do not want to deal with in that manner, like China.


See my thought is not any one of the above concerns I referenced I think can have real life effects, but when combining them all, the poverty level, I think will skyrocket. Unemployment already has. So one of two things in my opinion will need to happen in order to avoid a mass populous truly moving onto the side walks in the coming months.

1. Either the country will need to foot all their bills and send our deficit into a space unprecedented and likely not even thought possibly in years past.

2. Millions of people will go into a starving state, with no medical insurance. This will affect their health and some will die. but the bigger concern, is how many will die as those who become desperate start taking from others in order to feed themselves? The potential for civil unrest escalating into civil war/anarchy is a real concern I have in my opinion.


When people cant eat, they become desperate. History has proven this. So I suppose my real concern to not opening up, is not the deficit and the economical fall out itself, but what that fallout will means to the average person who cant pay rent, has no supplemental income(stimulus), ends up on the streets and cant eat.


Now regarding the phasing plan, I'm open to that, however currently the decisions being made of what to close vs what to leave open is a complete mess of contradictions. For example: not being able to fish in your own boat on a river. but being able to buy liquor.

When decisions like that are made, it makes the general public toss hands in the air and say, screw this. WTH, i'm going about my day. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling this is part of the issue protestors have in regards to the lockdown.



PS: the pointed fingers and accusational/insulting posts are prevalent here as well. However here it might be the opposite.

 

[PCmor7]

I believe, at least from reporting, that states re-opening are not opening without restrictions or social distancing guidelines. And there is evidence (NY) that more than 60% of the hospitalizations from covid were from people that have stayed in home and do not have essential jobs. That questions the validity of mitigation actually slowing the spread of hospitalizations.

The entire premise of stay at home was to slow the spread so hospitals aren’t overrun with covid patients. The states opening have policies in place that they have the necessary beds and testing needed to mitigate spikes. The guidelines can move up or down a phase, depending on the results. That is a logical way of opening the country back up again.

Personal distancing typically is the most effective way of containing something like this if there aren't vaccines or treatments, though, wouldn't you think? I'd be curious if a lot of these people didn't actually become infected before the quarantines went into effect, or if these people weren't really adhering to safe measures ... they were going out more than they should and/or they weren't taking precautions when they did.

It definitely bears study. But we might find out that the quarantine measures actually did exactly what they were supposed to do in mitigating spread. NYC is almost the perfect petri dish for something like this: An enormous travel and sightseeing hub that relies significantly on mass transit.

 

[Orion Bailey]

One other thing that has bothered me allot is sending infected or recovered seniors back to nursing homes of which they came, I realize there is monetary issues here, but its crazy and its being done and thats why so many nursing homes represent a large percentage of deaths, in Oregon its near 50%. I though the whole idea about the military setting up hospitals and bringing ships was to isolate some of the seniors that were hit with the virus. Very sad and inexcusable, imo.

Having a mother in aq nursing homw that has had multiple deaths, this is very real for me.

Another reason i'm skeptical of how the Gov. is handling the closures/lockdowns.

It makes no sense to me to free prisoners because of their closed quarters, much the same as retirement communities. But yet, lets not separate infected from non infected in retirement homes. My mother has not been tested. Why not test everyone in these homes and separate asap?

So things like this and my other references, make me not trust the government on this lockdown. Let people continue with life, use common sense and what happens happens.

The virus is global. No stopping it. And we stemmed the speed of it already to allow for emergency services to get caught up and not be overwhelmed. It we play it safe, I don't see why we cant open up ion phases asap.

All just my opinion though.

 

[BigGameDamian]

There breaking news about one of Trump's personal valets who has tested positive for covid-19...Trump is said to be pissed.

One of Trump's personal valets has tested positive for coronavirus

A member of the US Navy who serves as one of President Donald Trump's personal valets has tested positive for coronavirus, CNN has learned Thursday, raising concerns about the President's possible exposure to the virus.

The valets are members of an elite military unit dedicated to the White House and often work very close to the President and first family. Trump was upset when he was informed Wednesday that the valet had tested positive, a source told CNN, and he was subsequently tested again by the White House physician.
In a statement, the White House confirmed CNN's reporting that one of the President's valets had tested positive.
"We were recently notified by the White House Medical Unit that a member of the United States Military, who works on the White House campus, has tested positive for Coronavirus," deputy White House press secretary Hogan Gidley said in a statement. "The President and the Vice President have since tested negative for the virus and they remain in great health."
A White House source said the valet, a man who has not been identified, exhibited "symptoms" Wednesday morning, and said the news that someone close to Trump had tested positive for coronavirus was "hitting the fan" in the West Wing.
Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and the senior staffers who regularly interact with them are still being tested weekly for coronavirus, two people familiar told CNN. The White House is continuing to use the rapid Abbott Labs test, which provide results in about 15 minutes. Several officials who have received the test said it's often administered in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, next door to the West Wing on the White House grounds. A medical official swabs the staffer's nostrils and informs them that they'll be notified within the next several minutes if it's positive.

I don't think that Trump would ever admit to getting tested positive for the Coronavirus.

 

[PCmor7]

First, No need to thank me. Its a breath of fresh air to be able to engage with someone of potential opposing viewpoints in a respectful manner.

So, I can agree with you on the deficit, though I acknowledge we seem to go on and on with it without real ramifications, even when we lost our top credit rating for a bit a couple years back (don't recall the year off hand). But at some point, there will be a collapse, no? The other factor to that is other countries buying up our debt. Countries we don't want to be in debt to. The larger our debt, the more we could potentially be wrapped into dealing with countries we do not want to deal with in that manner, like China.


See my thought is not any one of the above concerns I referenced I think can have real life effects, but when combining them all, the poverty level, I think will skyrocket. Unemployment already has. So one of two things in my opinion will need to happen in order to avoid a mass populous truly moving onto the side walks in the coming months.

1. Either the country will need to foot all their bills and send our deficit into a space unprecedented and likely not even thought possibly in years past.

2. Millions of people will go into a starving state, with no medical insurance. This will affect their health and some will die. but the bigger concern, is how many will die as those who become desperate start taking from others in order to feed themselves? The potential for civil unrest escalating into civil war/anarchy is a real concern I have in my opinion.


When people cant eat, they become desperate. History has proven this. So I suppose my real concern to not opening up, is not the deficit and the economical fall out itself, but what that fallout will means to the average person who cant pay rent, has no supplemental income(stimulus), ends up on the streets and cant eat.


Now regarding the phasing plan, I'm open to that, however currently the decisions being made of what to close vs what to leave open is a complete mess of contradictions. For example: not being able to fish in your own boat on a river. but being able to buy liquor.

When decisions like that are made, it makes the general public toss hands in the air and say, screw this. WTH, i'm going about my day. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling this is part of the issue protestors have in regards to the lockdown.



PS: the pointed fingers and accusational/insulting posts are prevalent here as well. However here it might be the opposite.

All fair points and concerns, IMO. It seems like we just think in similar ways but there's nuance in it and maybe a difference in what we prioritize and therefore address the issues.

TBH, this might be the best thing in some ways for the healthcare industry and the rising costs there. I already see people I haven't seen before saying we need to look at this ... and we already had a pretty strong tide of people wanting to make bigger changes in how we handle it.

Things like this usually bring about sweeping changes. In an election year, I definitely could see that. I think leadership has been ineffective and probably made an already bad situation worse. People want to at least feel someone cares and is looking out for them. We've had so many mixed messages, and that's not good.

 

[Hoopguru]

COVID-19 Daily Update

Less than 1% of all er visits are virus related.
Look at the age's of those most effected.
There has been a decline for the last 30 days.

 

[PCmor7]

I kinda feel for the complexes though, since they also weren't getting a break of any kind on their mortgages. For rents to be forgiven, mortgages would have had to be delayed as well.

The credit union that holds my car payments extended offers to skip payments during the crisis (I declined; I'm still employed)--but I certainly saw nothing of the sort from our mortgage company. Real estate is such a foundational element of our economy that it should have been the first place governments should have looked to provide relief to the populace. Unfortunately, the banks have so much influence on the politicians that I don't think it was ever a legitimate consideration.

I would think a moratorium would have to be placed on all of them for say three-four months. That means even the mortgages of the complexes.

Again, to me, you either can approach that as altruism or sound business practice. It just seems the sensible approach ... to not do it seems to lack foresight and to be blindingly selfish.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't think that Trump would ever admit to getting tested positive for the Coronavirus.

This is a silly comment. Of course he would admit to it because he would need treatment for it. There would be no way he could hide being infected.

 

[yankeesince59]

I don't think that Trump would ever admit to getting tested positive for the Coronavirus.

Well if he ever did contact the virus you and I know that he'd find a way to spin it in his favor.

Just saw a video of him visiting a plant that is making masks...this knucklehead wore safety glasses but refuses to wear a mask.

His idiocy knows no bounds.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Corona virus news and discussions thread.

Take the hate trump posts to the Anti trump thread please.....

 

[Hoopguru]

Just got back from Rite Aid and there was a Jeep in the parking lot with "Spread Love The Media Is The Virus" painted all over. With flowers like the ones in the 60"s.
I grew up in the 60's so it brought back some memories, back then it would have been "Spread Flower's & Beads, The Government Is the Virus" Man have things changed....

 

[magnifier661]

“We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country,” said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

Let that sink in... The incompetence of Governor Cuomo, New York City Mayor Di Blasio is responsible for the majority of mortalities in the United States.

 

[ehizzy3]

“We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country,” said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

Let that sink in... The incompetence of Governor Cuomo, New York City Mayor Di Blasio is responsible for the majority of mortalities in the United States.

are you dizzy

 

[CupWizier]

I think it’s absolutely healthy to be concerned and to question every government policy.

I think Phase 1 and phase 2 are still highly strict guidelines for those that have higher risk. In the end, there has to be a slow reopening and policies in place to mitigate, contact trace and test hot spots.

The virus has no boundaries. Opening up certain areas and then having people traveling to and from areas is how the virus spreads. trump and his group came up with guidelines and now thay have essentially thrown those out the door. What a clusterfuck this has become as trump is only concerned about one thing and it's not the lives of individuals. He considers deaths of citizens like they are collaterasl damage and part of the process for his reelection.

 

[BigGameDamian]

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/costcos-sales-fall-for-first-time-in-nearly-a-decade-11588806906

Costco’s Sales Fall for First Time in Over a Decade

Fewer shoppers visited stores in April amid coronavirus pandemic, while low gas prices also ate into sales

 

[magnifier661]

are you dizzy

February 12, 2020: https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/02/12/campaign-to-support-chinatown-amid-coronavirus-fears/

“It’s very slow, like 60% down,” Szu Liow, of Mama Eatery on Mulberry Street, told CBS2’s Reena Roy. “My owner, yeah, very sad about the business.”

City officials want to remind people it’s safe to enjoy all the neighborhood has to offer. So today they’re kicking off a campaign, called “Show Some Love to Chinatown.”

“We want to make sure New Yorkers know that they can come out and support all these small businesses, because they are the backbone of the city’s economy,” Department of Small Business Services Commissioner Gregg Bishop said.

Health officials also say it is important to keep the numbers in perspective, with the flu much deadlier this winter.

March 2, 2020: https://www.govtech.com/em/safety/A...-in-New-York-Gov-Cuomo-Urges-Deep-Breath.html

“It wasn’t a question of if, but when," Cuomo said of the virus coming to New York. Officials stressed that New Yorkers should not be afraid to shop in stores or take public transit.

"Once you know the reality, it is reassuring. And we should relax," Cuomo says of virus concerns. He noted that 80% of positive virus cases get "self-resolved" and that the mortality rate of coronavirus is estimated at 1.4%, compared to a 0.6% rate for the seasonal flu.

Cuomo said the state is working with private labs and hospitals across the state so that the capacity for testing the virus will reach 1,000 per day within a week; the current system can handle a couple of hundred tests per day. He also said new cleaning protocols – a bleach-based approach – is being developed for schools and other big institutions in the state.

"We have gone through this before," Cuomo said of virus outbreaks. He recalled the 2009 swine flu period, in which more than 100 schools in New York were temporarily shuttered. And the Ebola virus was "much more frightening,'' he said.

March 2, 2020: Bill Di Blasio tells New Yorkers to go out in town.


March 5, 2020: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-cases.html
Mayor tells New Yorkers not to change their behavior.

Senior Centers were mandated by the State to take in Covid-19 patients.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...home-forced-take-recovering-patients-n1191811
and they just added an additional 1,700 new deaths from nursing homes.
https://time.com/5832141/new-york-nursing-home-death-toll/

Yeah, my head is spinning

 

[Hoopguru]

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/costcos-sales-fall-for-first-time-in-nearly-a-decade-11588806906

Costco’s Sales Fall for First Time in Over a Decade

Fewer shoppers visited stores in April amid coronavirus pandemic, while low gas prices also ate into sales

Knowing how Costco rolls.their margins have stayed te same or increased even w

February 12, 2020: https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/02/12/campaign-to-support-chinatown-amid-coronavirus-fears/


March 2, 2020: https://www.govtech.com/em/safety/A...-in-New-York-Gov-Cuomo-Urges-Deep-Breath.html


March 2, 2020: Bill Di Blasio tells New Yorkers to go out in town.


March 5, 2020: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-cases.html
Mayor tells New Yorkers not to change their behavior.

Senior Centers were mandated by the State to take in Covid-19 patients.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...home-forced-take-recovering-patients-n1191811

Yeah, my head is spinning

The senior issue shows complete ignorance on the Gov's behalf. That one pisses me off as it could have been avoided.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

New York and New Jersey account for 36% of all COVID cases AND deaths in the US. They should have dropped a blanket around those two states early on.

 

[yankeesince59]

Before or after Trump finally took action?

 

[BigGameDamian]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.or...ed-because-of-coronavirus.html?outputType=amp

Washington County Fair canceled because of coronavirus concerns

 

[magnifier661]

Before or after Trump finally took action?

After Trump took action.

 

[yankeesince59]

Trump was weeks late.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Before or after Trump finally took action?

Whenever they were breaking out in larger numbers than the other 48 states.

 

[yankeesince59]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/14/what-trump-said-did-coronavirus-186464

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...coronavirus-response-is-increasingly-damning/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/20/what-trump-did-about-coronavirus-february/

 

[yankeesince59]

Whenever they were breaking out in larger numbers than the other 48 states.

Hmmm, and exactly when was that...and please don't cherry pick because I can too.

Using your logic, the very first state that reported a case they "should have dropped a blanket over" that state.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Hmmm, and exactly when was that...and please don't cherry pick because I can too.

On or around March 15th. When the cases spiked.

EDIT: This is just for NYC though. But whenever that trend started with the spike in cases.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

 

[BigGameDamian]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/neiman-marcus-bankruptcy-chapter-11-filing/

Neiman Marcus declares Chapter 11 bankruptcy

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Here is the NY map: