Dame asks for trade (And there it is) (1 Viewer)

[Whyachi]

I like the plan...

My plan would've also been to get better players, make better trades, and force players to sign for less money, all while hiring the deepest coaching staff ever assembled.

That's what I would've done. Easy peasy!

Kevin Costner mode. Chop down the corn field and even Darth Vader will come out of retirement to be a Blazer.

 

[Natebishop3]

I was going to say Vegas...... but Seattle is at least still within driving distance!

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Of course Dame is going to lessen his trade value. He wants the team he goes to to have the strongest chance of winning with him. The more value he has, the more the acquiring team gives up, and the weaken that new team’s roster.

 

[THE HCP]

You know it's times like this when I realize how lucky were are to have so many insiders and experts on the game that are never wrong. Man them letting us in on that behind the scenes details that only THEIR sources share with them.....FAMS...... so lucky.

 

[Whyachi]

starters:
Scoot
Simons
Thybulle
Herro
Grant

bench:
Sharpe
Murray
Little
Walker
Jovic ?
Jaquez ?

the Blazers just need to be entertaining enough to make it to trade deadline. I'm sure Blazer fans will be spoon fed rumors about all the improvements Cronin could make, but unfortunately none of them will pan out. Therefore it will be smart to throw in the towel, rest the starters, and engage the super duper tank.

 

[Strenuus]

 

[ehizzy3]

Mods should remove the (and there it is) from the thread title

 

[beast blazer]

See, if I say that I'll have five people come in here saying it's wrong and that I don't know shit so there's really no point.

Also, he could've tried to make moves outside of trading #3. He did nothing.

No one except a few insiders know the details of the trades that were discussed. So how do you evaluate a GM on trades not made unless you know what the options were. I'm glad that he didn't make a stupid trade, like trading for Gerald Wallace in exchange for a pick that turned into Damian Lillard.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don't know that's an accurate summary of what has happened. Certainly don't know that describes Cronin as a person.

I love Dame. When he said he was committed to this city and he was going to try to bring a championship here, I believe he tried (but I don't know). Now that he's asking for a trade and didn't bring the championship, I don't think that makes him a liar or a bad person. The same holds true for Cronin. He has failed on what I believe was his #1 goal, but I don't feel comfortable saying he didn't try. I certainly haven't seen anything that warrants calling him a liar.

He said the effort was there and he seemed optimistic that something would get done, that they had 12 deals they were looking at. Then he say's we couldn't get it done. Maybe it was for good reason and maybe didn't negotiate enough or was hesitant to push his chips?
Joe to me, doesn't come across like he's a capable negotiator, he will acknowledge giving it a try but seems to quickly state he can't get it done. Super guy, love his humbleness, but I just feel he'd much rather go young and start over.
He needs to learn to keep his cards close in the future.

 

[PCmor7]

Joe to me, doesn't come across like he's a capable negotiator

Not saying you are right or wrong, but on what do you base that assessment? Is it personality you see Cronin show at press conferences or the trades he did and didn't make over the past 18 months?

 

[GoBlazersGo]

Not saying you are right or wrong, but on what do you base that assessment? Is it personality you see Cronin show at press conferences or the trades he did and didn't make over the past 18 months?

Just his colon speaking.

 

[TBpup]

You know it's times like this when I realize how lucky were are to have so many insiders and experts on the game that are never wrong. Man them letting us in on that behind the scenes details that only THEIR sources share with them.....FAMS...... so lucky.

And yet some people have at times had details when they weren't available to the general public. I don't recall any of them indicating they were never wrong. Perhaps a screen shot or link to a thread would be helpful.

I appreciate when some people have shared what they could that turned out to be correct. It's fun. Isn't that supposed to be what this is? Did you not get any from Mrs. HCP this morning and woke up a little cranky?

 

[Hoopguru]

Not saying you are right or wrong, but on what do you base that assessment? Is it personality you see Cronin show at press conferences or the trades he did and didn't make over the past 18 months?

A combination and it's just my gut feeling. I just dont see him as the type to work the phones aggressively and create deals. Thats not a slam on him at all, everyone has strengths and areas for improvement. After spending 40 plus years with a large corporation you can get a feel for who has the talents in negotiating and pro active individuals. Some are more cautious and methodical and some are more aggressive, creative and willing to take risk.

 

[PCmor7]

A combination and it's just my gut feeling. I just dont see him as the type to work the phones aggressively and create deals. Thats not a slam on him at all, everyone has strengths and areas for improvement. After spending 40 plus years with a large corporation you can get a feel for who has the talents in negotiating and pro active individuals. Some our more cautious and methodical and some are more aggressive, creative and willing to take risk.

That's fair. The only thing I'd say is to be careful of judging someone's negotiating abilities based on public demeanor, and I say this as someone who's been a working professional for just about as long as you. Yes, boisterous gets attention, but usually I find calculated wins the day.

The book definitely still is out on his trade skills. How the whole thing with Dame plays out will be defining for him.

 

[Hoopguru]

That's fair. The only thing I'd say is to be careful of judging someone's negotiating abilities based on public demeanor, and I say this as someone who's been a working professional for just about as long as you. Yes, boisterous gets attention, but usually I find calculated wins the day.

The book definitely still is out on his trade skills. How the whole thing with Dame plays out will be defining for him.

Good points, and it's just based on my experience within the Industry I worked. And I agree about boisterous individuals can draw attention but may be lousy negotiators or managers, because they turn people off.
I hope Joe succeeds in every way and he has acknowledged that he's learning the ropes. Just learning to deal with agents and other GM's can take time. When a person starts a new position dealing with procedures, policy and people it can take some time to get comfortable/confident and familiar with areas of strengths and weakness's.

 

[PCmor7]

Good points, and it's just based on my experience within the Industry I worked. And I agree about boisterous individuals can draw attention but may be lousy negotiators or managers, because they turn people off.
I hope Joe succeeds in every way and he has acknowledged that he's learning the ropes. Just learning to deal with agents and other GM's can take time. When a person starts a new position dealing with procedures, policy and people it can take some time to get comfortable/confident and familiar with areas of strengths and weakness's.

And he didn't exactly enter a great situation with the resources left to him after Olshey, the team kind of stuck in neutral (not good enough to challenge for the West, not bad enough for great draft positioning without tanking), the national pressure for Dame to move and the ownership uncertainty. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. Starting with that Clippers trade was bad and the Pelicans trade wasn't much better, so he put himself in a hole to start. I was encouraged that he got Grant for a song, Thybulle for nothing, a first-round pick and a chance to evaluate a former lottery player for a player who was likely to leave at the end of the season and got the Warriors so mad about extracting five second-rounders from them for GPII that they had their proxies put out the ridiculous Toradol story. From what we've heard of the potentialities regarding the eventual Scoot pick, it seems like not trading that was the way to go (the caveat there being we don't know exactly what deals were being offered).

All in all, when you put everything in the ledger, he seems to be getting it. He's probably won five trade negotiations, got routed in one and lost a seventh somewhat convincingly, but the losses came right at the beginning.

 

[illmatic99]

To TOR:
- Dame

To ORL:
- Trent ( Magic apparently were really intersted in him before he opted in)
- Nurk

To POR:
- Barnes
- Carter Jr.
- Boucher
- Issac
- 2 picks from TOR unprotected
- Protected first from ORL

Scoot / Simons
Simons / Sharpe
Barnes / Thybulle
Grant / Issac
Carter / Boucher

That team could win 40 games if we tried. Bring Sharpe off the bench and feed him 25-30mpg for one more yr before either moving Grant or Simons next yr to open up a starting spot for Shaedon. This roster is way more balanced than anything Crolshey has put together in the past decade and also reinforces a young core of guards AND wings.

 

[Graduate32]

To TOR:
- Dame

To ORL:
- Trent ( Magic apparently were really intersted in him before he opted in)
- Nurk

To POR:
- Barnes
- Carter Jr.
- Boucher
- Issac
- 2 picks from TOR unprotected
- Protected first from ORL

Scoot / Simons
Simons / Sharpe
Barnes / Thybulle
Grant / Issac
Carter / Boucher

That team could win 40 games if we tried. Bring Sharpe off the bench and feed him 25-30mpg for one more yr before either moving Grant or Simons next yr to open up a starting spot for Shaedon. This roster is way more balanced than anything Crolshey has put together in the past decade and also reinforces a young core of guards AND wings.

Love that for the Blazers, but that seems more than a little far-fetched for both the Raptors and the Magic. Given what we know about Masai, it seems very unlikely he give up Barnes, Trent, AND two picks for Dame. And while the Magic like Trent, do they like him enough to give up Carter and a first?

I get worried with these trade proposals that we are setting our expectations up way too high.

 

[illmatic99]

Love that for the Blazers, but that seems more than a little far-fetched for both the Raptors and the Magic. Given what we know about Masai, it seems very unlikely he give up Barnes, Trent, AND two picks for Dame. And while the Magic like Trent, do they like him enough to give up Carter and a first?

I get worried with these trade proposals that we are setting our expectations up way too high.

The Raptors were this close to losing Trent for nothing in FA before he opted back in last month.

Magic also jettison an albatross in Issac in the deal.

The picks here are fairly interchangebale in my mind. Can haggle out of one or two of them. I'm just thinking of the framework for a Dame deal:

1. One top prospect with all star potential at wing/big.

2. One starting caliber player at a position of need who is < 25.

3. Picks. Amenable to how many depending on the guys we get with above conditions.

4. The team has to on Nurk.

I don't think this is too much to ask. It is essentially the template for most recent star trades.

 

[B-Roy]

To TOR:
- Dame

To ORL:
- Trent ( Magic apparently were really intersted in him before he opted in)
- Nurk

To POR:
- Barnes
- Carter Jr.
- Boucher
- Issac
- 2 picks from TOR unprotected
- Protected first from ORL

Scoot / Simons
Simons / Sharpe
Barnes / Thybulle
Grant / Issac
Carter / Boucher

That team could win 40 games if we tried. Bring Sharpe off the bench and feed him 25-30mpg for one more yr before either moving Grant or Simons next yr to open up a starting spot for Shaedon. This roster is way more balanced than anything Crolshey has put together in the past decade and also reinforces a young core of guards AND wings.

Carter + 1st to take on Nurk???? And get an expiring Trent who is reported to be working on an extension with Toronto?

I wouldn't trade Carter by himself for Trent and Nurk. And yes I know they're moving Isaac. I don't think Isaac is that negative on this contract. Partially guaranteed this year, nonguaranteed next. He's functionally an expiring.

 

[Graduate32]

The Raptors were this close to losing Trent for nothing in FA before he opted back in last month.

Magic also jettison an albatross in Issac in the deal.

The picks here are fairly interchangebale in my mind. Can haggle out of one or two of them. I'm just thinking of the framework for a Dame deal:

1. One top prospect with all star potential at wing/big.

2. One starting caliber player at a position of need who is < 25.

3. Picks. Amenable to how many depending on the guys we get with above conditions.

4. The team has to on Nurk.

I don't think this is too much to ask. It is essentially the template for most recent star trades.

Again, I completely understand the Blazers perspective here. If they were ever offered this, they should sign immediately. It fits the template (though I am not sure Dame has the market of the previous stars). I am of the belief that Masai wouldn't include Barnes in any Dame deal, but I'd love to be wrong.

What if it were Barnes, Trent, and filler for Dame straight across, no picks? Do you like that better than the Miami package?

 

[illmatic99]

Again, I completely understand the Blazers perspective here. If they were ever offered this, they should sign immediately. It fits the template (though I am not sure Dame has the market of the previous stars). I am of the belief that Masai wouldn't include Barnes in any Dame deal, but I'd love to be wrong.

What if it were Barnes, Trent, and filler for Dame straight across, no picks? Do you like that better than the Miami package?

Maybe, but we have no use for Trent. Need to move him for more liquid assets. But this is far less than the packages other stars got back their respective teams.

Still better than the pupu platter from MIA, imo.

 

[illmatic99]

Carter + 1st to take on Nurk???? And get an expiring Trent who is reported to be working on an extension with Toronto?

I wouldn't trade Carter by himself for Trent and Nurk. And yes I know they're moving Isaac. I don't think Isaac is that negative on this contract. Partially guaranteed this year, nonguaranteed next. He's functionally an expiring.
View attachment 56920

Perhaps ORL needs to send back less. But really their inclusion here is only a destination to move Trent to. Can try to find others better suited. The main point of the post is a Dame for Barnes framework.

 

[wizenheimer]

wait....has Toronto given any indication at all they are interested in Dame?

 

[illmatic99]

wait....has Toronto given any indication at all they are interested in Dame?

No. It's the hopeful Dame destination du jour cuz we all hate the nonsense from Miami.

 

[wizenheimer]

No. It's the hopeful Dame destination du jour cuz we all hate the nonsense from Miami.

ok...understood....for a minute there....

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You know it's times like this when I realize how lucky were are to have so many insiders and experts on the game that are never wrong. Man them letting us in on that behind the scenes details that only THEIR sources share with them.....FAMS...... so lucky.

I know a video dude for the team. He contributes nothing, though.

(Kidding, brah.)

 

[illmatic99]

 

[blazerfan11]

Every single team in the Eastern conference is a "win now" team. By that I mean, they seriously want to make the playoffs. Remember what a huge deal that was for Sacramento.

 

[illmatic99]

Amick:

Cronin was known to be spending summer league getting a fuller understanding of the market for Lillard, including among teams that might make a play for him despite his well-known Miami wishes. But the pressure will grow in the coming months, when the spotlight surrounding Lillard and Harden brightens yet again and their impatience inevitably grows along the way.