Dame asks for trade (And there it is) (9 Viewers)

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Pinwheel1 said:
The difference is he wanted Norm and CJ gone. He didn't care where they went as long as he got rid of their contracts. They wanted to go in a different direction. Should they have gotten an extra pick for Norm? Maybe but the goal was to get rid of them.

Their value was nowhere close to what Dame's is.
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Agreed that the value isn't the same. But we're making the assumption that he didn't want to lose Dame. I don't think we can say that for sure. You look at his moves the last two seasons, it mostly feels like Cronin always wanted Dame to ask out.
 
AmirIcon said:
Definitely intentional of Riley signing Jaquez as a deterrent to Portland.
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I like Jaquez and I like the value of Martin but if Miami would do what it takes to guarantee that the pick they owe OKC will convey 2026 then I would be just fine with this... even if the Spurs only threw in one pick instead of two.
upload_2023-7-4_13-39-21.png
 
AmirIcon said:
A first round pick is a guaranteed deal, as opposed to a second round pick which is not a guaranteed deal.
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There is a specific amount of money that each pick can sign for, but I'm not sure if the team HAS to offer them a deal. Do you have a link?
 
AmirIcon said:
Dude, I've gone in circles with you. He asked Norm where he wanted to go. He asked CJ where he wanted to go. Now he's not going to ask Dame where he wants to go? The reports are that he's going to Miami.

Try to keep up.
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Not necessarily...



Also, Norm and CJ were traded, Dame asked to be traded. Huge difference.
 
AmirIcon said:
That's literally the definition of a deterrent. Shitty or not.

If you don't have to sign 1st round picks before they can play summer league, it's probably intentional, considering Riley had a good idea they were going to make a play for Dame and Portland was going to be asking for rebuilding pieces.
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I don't agree.
Anyway, if you think Riley is making a Dame trade more difficult, he's not doing himself any favors.
 
AmirIcon said:
Do you know what a deterrent is? It's not full-proof. It's just a barrier. The barrier is that if Joe really wants to complete a deal, he can't unless he leaves Jaquez out of the deal. Or he waits 30 days.

It's literally a deterrent. Doesn't mean there aren't ways around it.
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Jaqquez contract is not that big, we have two TPE's, do the deal whenever its ready without Jaquez and finish the trade with Jaquez (send out worst second) when it can be done
 
Ed O said:
But he had barely been hurt before they acquired him from Boston... he has one year where he only played 1 game, and then he missed 30 games in his final year in Boston.

Compare that to my hypothetical where Zion would have played 58 games in four seasons, which is only six more than the final year Hayward was in Boston (he played in 136 in three years for the Celtics overall), and Gordon has played in 143 in his three years for the Hornets.

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but Zion (in that situation) would be historically injury prone and on an entirely different level at that then Hayward was/is (and, again, Charlotte hasn't been able to move his contract).
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We have different cutoff points i guess. I was very early to give up on D.Rose and I've been saying for more than a year now that the Grizzlies need to trade Morant.

I usually don't like to trust those kind of players, but the potential of Zion...that dominance, is very enticing.
 
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AmirIcon said:
Agreed that the value isn't the same. But we're making the assumption that he didn't want to lose Dame. I don't think we can say that for sure. You look at his moves the last two seasons, it mostly feels like Cronin always wanted Dame to ask out.
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Dont' agree. I am not saying every move Joe made was wise. But one can argue that every move was to get pieces to build around Dame. Even the tank the last two years.

He did not know they would move up in the lottery and he did not know Scoot would fall to 3. So those who say Joe drafted Scoot so Dame would want out are not thinking clearly IMO. He just was not willing to move #3, Sharpe, and Ant for 1 player. #3 yes, but he would be an idiot to give away Sharpe too.
 
Duckhook said:
Not necessarily...



Also, Norm and CJ were traded, Dame asked to be traded. Huge difference.
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That's from 3 days ago. Both Marc Spears and Mike Richman said otherwise today.

Cronin has lied in our faces for two years straight and NOW is the time you want to believe him?

Okay. Have at it.
 
AmirIcon said:
That's literally the definition of a deterrent. Shitty or not.

If you don't have to sign 1st round picks before they can play summer league, it's probably intentional, considering Riley had a good idea they were going to make a play for Dame and Portland was going to be asking for rebuilding pieces.
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But there is precendence to get around it.

It is like me putting up a sign on my car saying "don't steal this"

It could bring more attention to the asset which could mean you want it more.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Dont' agree. I am not saying every move Joe made was wise. But one can argue that every move was to get pieces to build around Dame. Even the tank the last two years.

He did not know they would move up in the lottery and he did not know Scoot would fall to 3. So those who say Joe drafted Scoot so Dame would want out are not thinking clearly IMO. He just was not willing to move #3, Sharpe, and Ant for 1 player. #3 yes, but he would be an idiot to give away Sharpe too.
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What is there to agree or disagree on? Dame saw what Cronin did the last two years and felt strung along. Cronin wasn't building around Dame. That's why he asked out. Regardless of the #3 pick, Dame gave Cronin a week to make a deal in other ways and he didn't do it.

If you want to believe that Cronin was building around Dame the last two years after giving GP2 and Hart away for draft picks then okay... no evidence will convince you otherwise.
 
Blazinaway said:
Jaqquez contract is not that big, we have two TPE's, do the deal whenever its ready without Jaquez and finish the trade with Jaquez (send out worst second) when it can be done
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Of course. Not sure we even care about Jaquez. A deterrent is just that. It's not full-proof.
 
I sure hope this organization doesn't plan on a 7-10 year rebuild with a plan of tanking for the next 2-4 years and picks way out. And any pick should be one owned by a team not in contention soon.
If all we get is a bunch of picks out to 2028,29 & 30 its going to be a long 6-8 years.
 
blazerkor said:
I like Jaquez and I like the value of Martin but if Miami would do what it takes to guarantee that the pick they owe OKC will convey 2026 then I would be just fine with this... even if the Spurs only threw in one pick instead of two.
View attachment 56639
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If it's 4 teams, I'm thinking something like this:

upload_2023-7-4_13-57-35.png

We get six picks. We get some young guys. We can kick the tires on Simmons.

Scoot/Simons
Sharpe/Thybulle/Keon
Grant/Martin/Jaquez/Rupert
Simmons/Jovic/Murray/Walker
Claxton/Badji/JBJ

I think we end up getting rid of Keon and JBJ. It would be really hard to figure out a rotation with all those young guys.
 
Natebishop3 said:
If it's 4 teams, I'm thinking something like this:

View attachment 56640

We get six picks. We get some young guys. We can kick the tires on Simmons.

Scoot/Simons
Sharpe/Thybulle/Keon
Grant/Martin/Jaquez/Rupert
Simmons/Jovic/Murray/Walker
Claxton/Badji/JBJ

I think we end up getting rid of Keon and JBJ. It would be really hard to figure out a rotation with all those young guys.
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I'd be surprised if Brooklyn sacrifices Claxton just to get rid of Simmons.
 
AmirIcon said:
What is there to agree or disagree on? Dame saw what Cronin did the last two years and felt strung along. Cronin wasn't building around Dame. That's why he asked out. Regardless of the #3 pick, Dame gave Cronin a week to make a deal in other ways and he didn't do it.

If you want to believe that Cronin was building around Dame the last two years after giving GP2 and Hart away for draft picks then okay... no evidence will convince you otherwise.
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I think (I've already said I think Hart was probably suboptimal) that there was only one way to get Dame help at the deadline or this summer--clear as much off the books and get as many firsts as possible. He did both. Did he fail to get a trade using all of those things ? Yep. Were we getting Zion for Hart and Simons and #3, but NOT for #23, Simons and #3)? I don't think so. But the process used was to clear salary and accumulate picks to get someone Dame wanted in here. The league didn't play ball with him, and he didn't want to waste Scoot for something lame and needle-stagnant. I don't know that that's "lying". Just like (until and if it comes out that the Vulcans said NO) I'm not mad that we couldn't get a S&T with one of the marquee free agents (like, say, Draymond). We didn't have the powder and/or Dame didn't have the juice. That's on Cronin, too...but I don't know that it means he lied and purposefully dissed Dame.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Here is Bobby Marks proposal..... straight up garbage.



View attachment 56641
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Yeah Marks is one of the most useless people they have at ESPN. His trades are always one sided and I heard him on a podcast say that he doesn't really stay in contact with anyone but just tries to look at things from each team's perspective when he posits this bullshit.
 
Here is my new batshit insane trade. Clears out some room on our team, brings in a ton of young talent, and we get an assload of picks.

upload_2023-7-4_14-24-19.png

Scoot/Lowry
Shaedon/Thybulle/Keon
Simmons/Martin/Jaquez/Rupert
Grant/Jovic/Clowney/Murray
Claxton/Collins/JBJ
 
BrianFromWA said:
We didn't have the powder and/or Dame didn't have the juice. That's on Cronin, too...but I don't know that it means he lied and purposefully dissed Dame.
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I have come to the conclusion that there is no use in trying to add logic to this topic. Some people think Joe is a liar. I actually would be impressed if he was that good of an actor. Maybe Olshey taught him a few of his soap opera tricks.
 
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