Dame in Milwaukee thread

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I guess that could be a matter of interpretation, but how many other NBA examples since the arrival of social media do we have of so many stories coming from a player's camp of not only a trade request but a demand to be dealt to one other team?

I'm just not really sure how anyone cannot see that part. We had Dame's agent making statements. We had the people in the media closest to Dame making statements. They all were aligned.

Dame, at any point, could have taken to Twitter and set it straight but never did. That seemed really telling. He couldn't help but be aware of what was going on. It goes, I think, beyond the realms of belief to think his surrogates were making inflammatory statements on his behalf either trashing the team ("he gave them his last 10 years and they owe it to him") or threatening the team ("if the Blazers don't trade him to the Heat he won't play for whoever he's traded to" or allusions that other information detrimental to the organization would be revealed) without Dame's direction or at least approval, especially as long as it went on.

Obviously, we don't know what the Heat were offering, although most of the speculation and reports had Herro going to a third team for a first-round pick, a couple of picks (1R down the road and 2R) and pick swaps, one young talent (probably Jovic) and a combination of dumps to match salary (Duncan Robinson, Lowry). Caleb Martin was speculated early on but that seemed to get quashed. We had many indications that the Heat didn't feel the need to spend any more in compensation because the Blazers owed it to Dame/Dame had the Blazers over a barrel, and that narrative was leaned into heavily by Goodwin, Fentress and Haynes.

Then we have that neither Cronin nor anyone in the Blazers fired any public shots at Dame in response. Everything was complimentary of Dame and what he did in Portland but also that the Blazers were committed to getting fair compensation but would try to send him to a contender -- which they did.

Looking at that last part, I guess I just can't see any way someone can say "both sides." Only one side made this messy.

Fans can speculate on what Cronin did, but we don't have to speculate about what Dame's camp did, because they did it for everyone to see for weeks.

I loved Dame as a player and the face of the organization. That said, I can look at all the facts here as we know them and admit what his people did was dirty pool and his silence through it all didn't speak well for him.

It just looks to me like some fans love for Dame the Blazer blind them to the behavior of Dame the Trade Prospect. They can't bring themselves to call it like it is for the latter because they're so invested in the former.

If that part's incorrect, I'm open to hearing you or Wiz enlighten me how you reconcile how else you can feel the way you do beyond just an unconditional trust in Dame that requires an unreasonable distrust of Cronin.
Good post.

One correction, Dame could never have directly set the record straight on Twitter. Players are banned from directly publicly demanding trades or discussing them. The NBA had direct discussions with the Blazers and Dames camp warning of this.

But I agree to your larger point that Dame was primarily responsible for his camp making this messy, and the Blazers were not at fault.
 
100%. Fuck him and his agent for trying to force Joes hand. They put the Blazers in a tough spot
Ok I think I understand why you feel that way, though I don't feel the same.

I think of Dame messy trade request as greatly dimishing his Blazer legacy, he could've asked out in a professional respective way with the same result but gone down as possibly the best Blazer ever. Instead Clyde and Sheed are clearly above him, and he's probably tied with Roy and Walton.

But once he's gone I turned the page. Wish we could've seen him and Giannis healthy as Id have enjoyed them winning or losing more than this incomplete final grade to their season.
 
Good post.

One correction, Dame could never have directly set the record straight on Twitter. Players are banned from directly publicly demanding trades or discussing them. The NBA had direct discussions with the Blazers and Dames camp warning of this.

But I agree to your larger point that Dame was primarily responsible for his camp making this messy, and the Blazers were not at fault.

Being restricted from talking about the trade or possibilities doesn't prohibit him from saying his feelings for the Blazers organization were being misrepresented, though. He can do things to make that clear without specifically talking about trade prospects.
 
Ok I think I understand why you feel that way, though I don't feel the same.

I think of Dame messy trade request as greatly dimishing his Blazer legacy, he could've asked out in a professional respective way with the same result but gone down as possibly the best Blazer ever. Instead Clyde and Sheed are clearly above him, and he's probably tied with Roy and Walton.

But once he's gone I turned the page. Wish we could've seen him and Giannis healthy as Id have enjoyed them winning or losing more than this incomplete final grade to their season.

Kind of where I am.

People make mistakes, sometimes big mistakes, and are worthy of forgiveness. I'm not going to judge a potential Dame return at some point just by how things ended. That said, it's not something I'm actively hoping for. If it's in the best interest of the Blazers at the time, great. If not, fine. And it's definitely made me more indifferent to what happens to Lillard in the present. I'm not hoping he wins a ring. I won't be mad if he wins one, either. His outcomes just aren't that big of a deal for me.
 
Good post.

One correction, Dame could never have directly set the record straight on Twitter. Players are banned from directly publicly demanding trades or discussing them. The NBA had direct discussions with the Blazers and Dames camp warning of this.

But I agree to your larger point that Dame was primarily responsible for his camp making this messy, and the Blazers were not at fault.
But he set the record straight that he did in fact request a trade to the Heat in his interview with Marc Spears. The one where he said he didn't want to speak on the Blazers.
 
I was just having a discussion over on the Suns board. It got me thinking that Portland may have gotten screwed with the picks received in the Dame trade.

The new CBA (July '23) states that if a team is over the 2nd apron for 3 of the last 5 years - their pick automatically gets moved to the end of the first round.

The first time that can happen is for the '26 draft (23/24, 24/25, & 25/26). It would also immediately impact the '27 and '28 draft picks.

Portland received swaps with MIL in '28 and '30 and also the MIL '29 and BOS '29 picks.

Both BOS and MIL were over the second apron in 23/24. Both are likely going to be over the second in 24/25. Projecting too much further out is really difficult to do, but I'd put it as a real possibility that one/both teams cross the second apron a third time before the '28 season.

Definitely a risk here that I didn't see/realize before. Thoughts?

***EDIT*** -> I think MIL just barely ducked the 2nd apron by $500k. I guess it depends upon if the league uses the "Active" cap versus the "Cap Hold" numbers.
 
I would think that wouldn't apply to picks already traded before this goes into effect, otherwise you'll have teams who aren't penalized, being penalized
 
I was just having a discussion over on the Suns board. It got me thinking that Portland may have gotten screwed with the picks received in the Dame trade.

The new CBA (July '23) states that if a team is over the 2nd apron for 3 of the last 5 years - their pick automatically gets moved to the end of the first round.

The first time that can happen is for the '26 draft (23/24, 24/25, & 25/26). It would also immediately impact the '27 and '28 draft picks.

Portland received swaps with MIL in '28 and '30 and also the MIL '29 and BOS '29 picks.

Both BOS and MIL were over the second apron in 23/24. Both are likely going to be over the second in 24/25. Projecting too much further out is really difficult to do, but I'd put it as a real possibility that one/both teams cross the second apron a third time before the '28 season.

Definitely a risk here that I didn't see/realize before. Thoughts?

***EDIT*** -> I think MIL just barely ducked the 2nd apron by $500k. I guess it depends upon if the league uses the "Active" cap versus the "Cap Hold" numbers.

I didn't think of that either. Not sure it will be an issue....maybe. The cap/aprons will be increasing by 10%/year (aprons maybe more) when the new media deals start in 2025-26. I can't imagine Milwaukee going all in on their aging roster. Boston may though
 
I would think that wouldn't apply to picks already traded before this goes into effect, otherwise you'll have teams who aren't penalized, being penalized

that would be an interesting question to ask somebody who is a CBA expert. I'm not sure if Larry Coon is even paying attention anymore. He hasn't posted any revisions or update to his CBA FAQ since a year before the new CBA started last summer
 
I would think that wouldn't apply to picks already traded before this goes into effect, otherwise you'll have teams who aren't penalized, being penalized
I see more fairness issues (league wide) if they did NOT move the pick to the end of 1st round.

When a team accepts a future pick in a trade, you are gambling on how good that team will be. Sometimes the pick is late 20's other times it's lotto. That goes into the calculus of if you accept the trade.

With the league wanting to penalize the big tax teams - making their future picks worth less in trade value would accomplish this.

Also think of all the teams that would otherwise get one pick lower if the league did not apply the rule to traded picks... I think the impacted teams would be upset
 
I'm fairly positive the league can not do anything to traded picks. Since we currently own the picks, or options on the picks, the only adjustment would be to their picks after we made our decision to swap or not.
 
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I see more fairness issues (league wide) if they did NOT move the pick to the end of 1st round.

When a team accepts a future pick in a trade, you are gambling on how good that team will be. Sometimes the pick is late 20's other times it's lotto. That goes into the calculus of if you accept the trade.

But then they could say they're being unfairly punished for another teams missteps. I'm sure there would be repercussions to the league for doing this to teams that played by the rules.

I would bet the scenario would be like this.

Portland can swap picks with the Bucks in Year X. The Bucks pick is #4, and the Blazers is #19. Once the Blazers make the switch, the Bucks pick now goes to #30, and the Blazers pick (formerly the Bucks pick) stays at #4.

And if their pick is owed to another team, their pick stays at it's normal position and the next possible pick for them is dumped off to the end of the draft.

Otherwise, what punishment does the offending team get?

You've been a repeat offended for X years, so your pick is the last pick in the draft!

"Ha! our draft pick this year isn't even ours! So you're screwing over Portland, not us!"

Yeah, that's fair.
 
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I was just having a discussion over on the Suns board. It got me thinking that Portland may have gotten screwed with the picks received in the Dame trade.

The new CBA (July '23) states that if a team is over the 2nd apron for 3 of the last 5 years - their pick automatically gets moved to the end of the first round.

The first time that can happen is for the '26 draft (23/24, 24/25, & 25/26). It would also immediately impact the '27 and '28 draft picks.

Portland received swaps with MIL in '28 and '30 and also the MIL '29 and BOS '29 picks.

Both BOS and MIL were over the second apron in 23/24. Both are likely going to be over the second in 24/25. Projecting too much further out is really difficult to do, but I'd put it as a real possibility that one/both teams cross the second apron a third time before the '28 season.

Definitely a risk here that I didn't see/realize before. Thoughts?

***EDIT*** -> I think MIL just barely ducked the 2nd apron by $500k. I guess it depends upon if the league uses the "Active" cap versus the "Cap Hold" numbers.

After reviewing some posts over at Realgm - someone had the text of the CBA.
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=112918367#p112918367

It appears that teams over the 2nd Akron in '24/25 season gets their '32 pick (7-years out) frozen. If the team is over the apron in 2 if the subsequent 4 seasons -> then that pick in '32 moves to the end of the first round.

They can 'unfreeze' and remove the penalty by being below the 2 apron for sufficient time.

So the takeaways
1) does not impact picks already traded
2) earliest pick this may effect is '32
3) teams can have their frozen picks stack up (ie - '32, '33, & '34 picks)
 
I was just having a discussion over on the Suns board. It got me thinking that Portland may have gotten screwed with the picks received in the Dame trade.

The new CBA (July '23) states that if a team is over the 2nd apron for 3 of the last 5 years - their pick automatically gets moved to the end of the first round.

The first time that can happen is for the '26 draft (23/24, 24/25, & 25/26). It would also immediately impact the '27 and '28 draft picks.

Portland received swaps with MIL in '28 and '30 and also the MIL '29 and BOS '29 picks.

Both BOS and MIL were over the second apron in 23/24. Both are likely going to be over the second in 24/25. Projecting too much further out is really difficult to do, but I'd put it as a real possibility that one/both teams cross the second apron a third time before the '28 season.

Definitely a risk here that I didn't see/realize before. Thoughts?

***EDIT*** -> I think MIL just barely ducked the 2nd apron by $500k. I guess it depends upon if the league uses the "Active" cap versus the "Cap Hold" numbers.
As Julius said, this wouldn't apply to Milwaukee 2028-2030 picks, it would apply to seasons after that.
 
I didn't think of that either. Not sure it will be an issue....maybe. The cap/aprons will be increasing by 10%/year (aprons maybe more) when the new media deals start in 2025-26. I can't imagine Milwaukee going all in on their aging roster. Boston may though
It won't apply to 2029 or 2030 picks, it would be future seasons, I'm not sure about 2031 which will be eligible for trades in July.
 
After reviewing some posts over at Realgm - someone had the text of the CBA.
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=112918367#p112918367

It appears that teams over the 2nd Akron in '24/25 season gets their '32 pick (7-years out) frozen. If the team is over the apron in 2 if the subsequent 4 seasons -> then that pick in '32 moves to the end of the first round.

They can 'unfreeze' and remove the penalty by being below the 2 apron for sufficient time.

So the takeaways
1) does not impact picks already traded
2) earliest pick this may effect is '32
3) teams can have their frozen picks stack up (ie - '32, '33, & '34 picks)
Yes this aligns with other things I've read, frozen or picks moved to the back of the draft have no impact to 2028-2030 picks we've acquired.

Certainly something GMs will need to take into account once those picks are eligible for trades.
 
I understood conceptually the frozen picks would mean a team could never trade away a pick that might move back to the end of the draft. So a team that traded for a pick would never have to worry about a pick it acquired getting moved to the back of the draft, such picks would've never been eligible to we traded, as they were frozen.

So the only team that could have a pick moved to the back of the draft is the teams own pick when they are repeatedly above the second apron and for many years prior had that pick frozen.

I'm not 100% sure of the above but that was my understanding and assumptions from reviewing the new cba in detail last summer.

Sounds like it's expected a team will never stay above that second apron for that many consecutive seasons as there are so many penalties, but we'll just have to see.
 
I think I created a thread somewhere of the new cba when it was released, it's a big 1000+ page PDF out there somewhere but it's freely available for anyone to download and read.
 
Giannis in a recent interview said this off season he will spend a lot of time in Portland with Dame not just working out but hanging together...get Giannis to fall in love with Portland and see what happens down the road.
Actually a great point, if Milwaukee many years from now did decide to pivot and rebuild the #1 team they'd explore trades with is the one that controls 3 years of their picks.
 

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