Dame unfollows the Blazers on IG

[Propagandist]

What details have been shared from any of those things?

That he wants to be traded and traded to Miami. That his agent steered other teams away from making offers. His mother said he might be in Portland but not in uniform. So much stuff. I mean what details don't we know? True, Dame hasn't come out and said much, but is he even allowed to? The James Harden fine suggests, no.

If we are talking about where things went sour, I certainly don't think Dame is a reliable source. Those details of what Goodwin said from the time (post-Denver series a few seasons ago) when everyone suggested Dame wanted out seem to indicate that he did indeed want out. But Dame said no. And many people, myself included, just nodded and accepted that.

It's hard not to speculate, and I don't think it is unreasonable to do so. If you look at just what we know, both Dame and Cronin seem to be playing chess, as people say. Cronin seems to have sneaked a rebuild on us and Dame seems to have waited around for his last massive contract. Interestingly, Olshey mentioned the contract on his way out.

The thing that makes me think Cronin tried is probably Jerami Grant. Why on earth trade for Jerami or resign Jerami if you aren't looking to appease Dame?
(Incidentally, the timing of the trade request coming after Jerami signed his contract is interesting.)

But in the end, I'd still prefer Dame stay and retire a Trail Blazer.

 

[PCmor7]

I just really don’t care at this point. I don’t care what Joe did to Dame. I don’t care what Dame did to Joe. I just want to turn the page and move on. I want to be excited about Scoot and Shae. This divorce should have happened two years ago.

Just one question: Which Nate are you?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I just really don’t care at this point. I don’t care what Joe did to Dame. I don’t care what Dame did to Joe. I just want to turn the page and move on. I want to be excited about Scoot and Shae. This divorce should have happened two years ago.

If we get some real details of what actually happened; well I guess I'd be interested to hear it. But yeah I don't care about hearing a bunch of different fans opinions of who is right or wrong for communication they did not hear.

This is just a failed relationship, similar to a married couple that is now divorced. Yeah hearing one sides version of how they were wronged isn't productive nor enjoyable to follow.

Let's hear about how we divide the assets and get this split finalized.

 

[Natebishop3]

Just one question: Which Nate are you?

Always the best one.

 

[Propagandist]

If we get some real details of what actually happened; well I guess I'd be interested to hear it. But yeah I don't care about hearing a bunch of different fans opinions of who is right or wrong for communication they did not hear.

This is just a failed relationship, similar to a married couple that is now divorced. Yeah hearing one sides version of how they were wronged isn't productive nor enjoyable to follow

Let's hear about how we split up the assets and get this split finalized.

Exactly. This feels a lot like a divorce at this point. The goal here, like divorces, should certainly be to split on good terms.

The he said, he said would likely be unproductive, and honestly, perspectives are strange; people see things differently, sometimes very differently, from one another. A back and forth might be entertaining, but moving on, regrouping, and looking back with fondness has to be in everyone's best interest.

I'm with you and @Natebishop3 (what's with the 3 are you a third?) at this point; allow me to paraphrase: who gives a shit?

 

[PCmor7]

That he wants to be traded and traded to Miami. That his agent steered other teams away from making offers. His mother said he might be in Portland but not in uniform. So much stuff. I mean what details don't we know? True, Dame hasn't come out and said much, but is he even allowed to? The James Harden fine suggests, no.

If we are talking about where things went sour, I certainly don't think Dame is a reliable source. Those details of what Goodwin said from the time (post-Denver series a few seasons ago) when everyone suggested Dame wanted out seem to indicate that he did indeed want out. But Dame said no. And many people, myself included, just nodded and accepted that.

It's hard not to speculate, and I don't think it is unreasonable to do so. If you look at just what we know, both Dame and Cronin seem to be playing chess, as people say. Cronin seems to have sneaked a rebuild on us and Dame seems to have waited around for his last massive contract. Interestingly, Olshey mentioned the contract on his way out.

The thing that makes me think Cronin tried is probably Jerami Grant. Why on earth trade for Jerami or resign Jerami if you aren't looking to appease Dame?
(Incidentally, the timing of the trade request coming after Jerami signed his contract is interesting.)

But in the end, I'd still prefer Dame stay and retire a Trail Blazer.

I kind of think it's a case of rejecting reality and submitting one's own if someone's to say we know Cronin's side but don't know Dame's. It's Bizarro World, actually.

Dame has directly said very little. For one to believe his agent was putting all this stuff out there and Dame wasn't on board with something so antithetical to his Captain Loyalty persona but still was going to keep him (and not say a word to correct it) requires checking one's brain at the door, though.

I have no doubt Bones heard something, but I doubt Bones was privy to any conversations between Dame and the Blazers. At that point, you have to ask yourself who Bones' source was, and, unless he's going to come out and irrefutably show it was someone in the Blazers' side of things, I'm kinda going with the presumption it came from Dame's side or someone more sympathetic to Dame. Seeing how poorly Team Dame has handled this, even if it felt like he was done dirty or might be being done dirty, I'm not really inclined to think they're acting from a reasonable, stable frame of mind. Certainly, being so driven to hamstring the Blazers that they're actually making it harder on themselves is not intelligent or rational.

 

[Natebishop3]

If we get some real details of what actually happened; well I guess I'd be interested to hear it. But yeah I don't care about hearing a bunch of different fans opinions of who is right or wrong for communication they did not hear.

This is just a failed relationship, similar to a married couple that is now divorced. Yeah hearing one sides version of how they were wronged isn't productive nor enjoyable to follow.

Let's hear about how we divide the assets and get this split finalized.

Yeah, if there’s ever a true accounting it would be interesting to hear it, but at this point I don’t really care. I just want it to be done so we can move on. All this continued griping and drama is really harshing my vibe about next season.

 

[Propagandist]

I kind of think it's a case of rejecting reality and submitting one's own if someone's to say we know Cronin's side but don't know Dame's. It's Bizarro World, actually.

Dame has directly said very little. For one to believe his agent was putting all this stuff out there and Dame wasn't on board with something so antithetical to his Captain Loyalty persona but still was going to keep him (and not say a word to correct it) requires checking one's brain at the door, though.

I have no doubt Bones heard something, but I doubt Bones was privy to any conversations between Dame and the Blazers. At that point, you have to ask yourself who Bones' source was, and, unless he's going to come out and irrefutably show it was someone in the Blazers' side of things, I'm kinda going with the presumption it came from Dame's side or someone more sympathetic to Dame. Seeing how poorly Team Dame has handled this, even if it felt like he was done dirty or might be being done dirty, I'm not really inclined to their they're acting from a reasonable, stable frame of mind. Certainly, being so driven to hamstring the Blazers that they're actually making it harder on themselves is not intelligent or rational.

Well put.

The botched everything of the Dame side of this situation makes it hard not to agree with you. Like what magic explanation makes all this weird stuff make sense? 1. who cares? and 2. there is no such thing as magic.

 

[PCmor7]

You have a celebrity's publicist make a statement while the celebrity is right there to correct or refute it if it's wrong, but the celebrity just stands and nods in agreement, then you have to be waaaaay out there with the fine print to pull the "we don't know Dame's side of it" card.

Trust the actions, not the words. Dame's actions have spoken plenty.

And Bones hasn't ever shown himself as someone who could ever keep his passions from overriding his judgment. I don't doubt his heart has him thinking Cronin lied or Cronin's just a PR piece or whatever, but I think that's the Fox Mulder in him wanting to believe. The Blazer FO always has been the enemy keeping this team from contending. Give him a story and a source that agrees with that angle and, well, it's all settled.

 

[HansenYang]

I've heard stuff along the lines of what I shared below from guys on both sides (front office & Dame's camp).

- Cronin told Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season
- Cronin wanted to go young and wasn't serious about building around Dame even if there's a suitable offer.
- Cronin told Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this.
- Dame asked out privately after their long meeting June 26th and wanted Cronin to stop saying he was willing to build around him. Then Cronin went against that immediately after the meeting.

I trust where this stuff comes from. There's other anecdotal stuff that I've heard that I don't trust but is along these lines. But I don't like talking about it here because doing so gets me slandered. Instead I just try to share my opinion, pose this stuff as a possibility, and have an understanding of why people don't believe it or think differently.

I don't doubt that most of that is true.

- Cronin told Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season

This comes with an implicit caveat if 'assuming there is a suitable offer'.
I doubt we'll ever know for real what offers were out there.... but based on the rumored offers we have seen - Cronin made a good choice in passing.
I will say that it does not feel like Portland was being 'aggressive'. I really wish they would have targeted John Collins... but oh well.

- Cronin wanted to go young and wasn't serious about building around Dame even if there's a suitable offer.

This is hearsay and conjecture. No way to prove one way or another in it.

- Cronin told Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this.

Again this comes with an implicit caveat of 'assuming a suitable offer'...
IMO, this is the crux if the issue. Dame assumed that if he asked out, that there'd be no requirements.
Either Bam or Buttler gave an interview shortly after the news broke about the request. They stated that they were in touch with Dame for several weeks and notified Pat that Dame "needed to be the #1 priority this offseason because he will be available".
Its not a stretch to imagine that Dame told Bam/Jimmy that he could pick his team... so Heat thought that they could lowball Portland.


- Dame asked out privately after their long meeting June 26th and wanted Cronin to stop saying he was willing to build around him. Then Cronin went against that immediately after the meeting.

If true, that feels a bit petty on Dames side.


Ultimately I have no problem with Dame asking out. I do have a problem with the manner in which he did.
I do think he ends up in Miami. Portland just needs to extract every single asset available.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

How is it extortion when Joe himself said he was obligated to do so and wanted to build a winner around Dame? He specifically said he would be aggressive. Sounds like Cronin extorted himself.

Dame wanted to win. The organization hadn't taken productive steps towards that in years. Hard to blame him for wanting to be competitive.

Cronin was very blunt that he failed to build a contender around Dame the last two years in his summer league press conference. As others have said why would he acquire Grant or other moves if he had committed to misleading Dame all along.

I and many fans have zero issue with Dame asking out. In retrospect it would've probably been best if he or the team had decided to explore that path back when Olshey was fired. But Dame is responsible for this Miami or bust ultimatum, he is responsible for his agents comments as if he is an unrestricted free agent. He is not a free agent, he signed a contract that the Blazers would pay him a quarter billion regardless if he lost a leg, now he is going against the spirit of that agreement.

I don't understand how you can be surprised Blazers fans are siding with the team when Dame has decided to go against the team as well as go against the fans in a manner unlike any well respected NBA hometown player outside of Ben Simmons or James Harden.

Dame is showing no respect to Blazer fans in how he has allowed his agent to communicate publicly during this situation; so he rightly deserves no Blazers fan support in return.

 

[Propagandist]

Yeah, if there’s ever a true accounting it would be interesting to hear it, but at this point I don’t really care. I just want it to be done so we can move on. All this continued griping and drama is really harshing my vibe about next season.

Right? I was complaining about this earlier this month. We got Scoot! I want to talk Scoot and Shaedon. Half the reason I want the trade over with is so that we can know who we have coming in so we talk about them!

 

[Propagandist]

You have a celebrity's publicist make a statement while the celebrity is right there to correct or refute it if it's wrong, but the celebrity just stands and nods in agreement, then you have to be waaaaay out there with the fine print to pull the "we don't know Dame's side of it" card.

Trust the actions, not the words. Dame's actions have spoken plenty.

And Bones hasn't ever shown himself as someone who could ever keep his passions from overriding his judgment. I don't doubt his heart has him thinking Cronin lied or Cronin's just a PR piece or whatever, but I think that's the Fox Mulder in him wanting to believe. The Blazer FO always has been the enemy keeping this team from contending. Give him a story and a source that agrees with that angle and, well, it's all settled.

Fox Mulder lol

 

[PCmor7]

Well, again, I'm sure it's going to look like piling on Dame, but if Dame doesn't make this trade-me-to-the-contender-with-the-fewest-assets ultimatum, I think there's at least a 50% chance more that a trade would have been consummated by now.

And I don't think if Dame was traded to Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, etc. he'd really refuse to play, so I don't get the point of that posturing, either.

I want the Blazers to get the best return they can get for Lillard, so, as much as I'd like him to either just move on or have at least enough of a change of heart that he'd be a good soldier with the team while it worked to reward him with a suitable trade partner, I'm not going to just move him just to end the soap opera he's casting about the world.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I don't doubt that most of that is true.

- Cronin told Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season

This comes with an implicit caveat if 'assuming there is a suitable offer'.
I doubt we'll ever know for real what offers were out there.... but based on the rumored offers we have seen - Cronin made a good choice in passing.
I will say that it does not feel like Portland was being 'aggressive'. I really wish they would have targeted John Collins... but oh well.

- Cronin wanted to go young and wasn't serious about building around Dame even if there's a suitable offer.

This is hearsay and conjecture. No way to prove one way or another in it.

- Cronin told Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this.

Again this comes with an implicit caveat of 'assuming a suitable offer'...
IMO, this is the crux if the issue. Dame assumed that if he asked out, that there'd be no requirements.
Either Bam or Buttler gave an interview shortly after the news broke about the request. They stated that they were in touch with Dame for several weeks and notified Pat that Dame "needed to be the #1 priority this offseason because he will be available".
Its not a stretch to imagine that Dame told Bam/Jimmy that he could pick his team... so Heat thought that they could lowball Portland.


- Dame asked out privately after their long meeting June 26th and wanted Cronin to stop saying he was willing to build around him. Then Cronin went against that immediately after the meeting.

If true, that feels a bit petty on Dames side.


Ultimately I have no problem with Dame asking out. I do have a problem with the manner in which he did.
I do think he ends up in Miami. Portland just needs to extract every single asset available.

Good post. Yeah it's probably a "miscommunication" where Dame heard examples such as he could pick his team if he ever asked for a trade and believed that was 100% the case. Cronin assumed the Blazers would get a fair return of talent but send Dame to his preferred destination.

That's why in business even when you have a handshake deal you get the attorneys to write up a contract. Sometimes the specifics are very surprising to one side and it takes many revisions over many months to get that finalized.

Obviously Cronin and Dame didn't put any of this in a formal written agreement. But that's the problem when you later have a disagreement, each side assumed something different.

Since the relationship has apparently broken down, all those prior casual verbal agreements might be void. In that case both Dame and the Blazers are only bound by the written contract they do have as well as all the NBA CBA rules. If Dame didn't understand this situation was possible it's his own fault for assuming otherwise.

 

[PCmor7]

Good post. Yeah it's probably a "miscommunication" where Dame heard he could pick his team if he ever asked for a trade and believed that was 100% the case. Cronin assumed the Blazers would get a fair return of talent but send Dame to his preferred destination.

That's why in business even when you have a handshake deal you get the attorneys to write up a contract. Sometimes the specifics are very surprising to one side and it takes many revisions over many months to get that finalized.

Obviously Cronin and Dame didn't put any of this in a formal written agreement. But that's the problem when you later have a disagreement, each side assumed something different.

Yeah, but doesn't Dame have to be the most incredibly naive mid-30s millionaire in the world to actually think being told they'd trade him where he wanted didn't come with the caveat that the Blazers get something more than the other team's Keljin Blevinses?

I find that difficult to believe. I think that's more a case of Dame wanting it, knowing the Blazers always gave him pretty much what he wanted, and then being disappointed when the team did what was best for itself -- which was perfectly reasonable -- and not knowing how to deal with hearing "no" for the first time. Then he and his team are going around pinning their story to the fine print of an unwritten deal that no organized sports team other than the Oakland A's would have done. It's entirely unrealistic and shouldn't have to be spelled out.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Yeah, but doesn't Dame have to be the most incredibly naive mid-30s millionaire in the world to actually think being told they'd trade him where he wanted didn't come with the caveat that the Blazers get something more than the other team's Keljin Blevinses?

I find that difficult to believe. I think that's more a case of Dame wanting it, knowing the Blazers always gave him pretty much what he wanted, and then being disappointed when the team did what was best for itself -- which was perfectly reasonable -- and not knowing how to deal with hearing "no" for the first time. Then he and his team are going around pinning their story to the fine print of an unwritten deal that no organized sports team other than the Oakland A's would have done. It's entirely unrealistic and shouldn't have to be spelled out.

Really hard to know what Dame and his camp believe. I do know what actions they have taken and what public communications they have done. Those don't paint Dame in a good light, and he predictably as well as justifiably deserve the criticism he is getting for his camps behavior.

I guess I have been a little surprised the Blazers fan support has been so overwhelmingly in Cronin favor and so strongly against Dame.

But I look at that more as fans accurately and rationally reacting to Dame and his camps actions.

Yeah there's a minority of strong Dame supporters who view it differently.

 

[riverman]

Well I read that today the Blazers and Heat have started up trade talks again so hopefully this will be in the rear view mirror sooner rather than later.

 

[sheed30]

Well I read that today the Blazers and Heat have started up trade talks again so hopefully this will be in the rear view mirror sooner rather than later.

Lol. It’s a report from someone working in the Miami Herald. I wouldn’t take that report serious.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well I read that today the Blazers and Heat have started up trade talks again so hopefully this will be in the rear view mirror sooner rather than later.

I think shot starts to get real closer to training camp

 

[kjironman1]

What have you heard?
I'm sure there's stuff that you can share and keep the specifics confidential.

I was going to ask that question also but just decided to let that go. If he wanted to express what he had heard the first response would be "From who?"

 

[kjironman1]

Time for the "It's a Business" quote.

 

[julius]

One thing to consider is what hasn't happened.

As in brown wasn't traded.

Zion wasn't traded.

Bridges wasn't traded.

There wasn't a trade made that the team would have benefited from.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Always the best one.

The height of that's bar might make for an interesting debate....or even an entire thread..........

 

[BIG Q]

Joe was pretty loyal in terms of trading Norman Powell, CJ McCollum, and Gray Payton II where they wanted to be. But it's not about the team-building direction as much as it is about the way Cronin went about it (which is up for interpretation).

If Joe came out and said he wanted to go the youth route and took offers for Dame on draft night, I would've been mad but that would've been much more respectable to me than the way he's played it. He went the route that he knew (or should've known) would force Dame out but on June 26th was still saying he had a good dialogue with Dame and how he was committed to building around him. We're supposed to believe that was a true statement after an hours long meeting when Dame requested out less than a week later?

Sly had a tidbit about how Cronin was telling Dame he was working on deals for him that were actually long-dead. There's a few other things that are more than just simply choosing a direction that I think affects the viewpoints on this situation.
- Did Cronin tell Dame he'd trade the pick if it wasn't #1 to convince Dame to tank the rest of last season?
- Did Cronin actually want to trade the 3rd pick to build a winner around Dame? He said he was obligated to build a winner around Dame and said that's what he wanted.
- Did Cronin tell Dame he'd trade him where he wants to go if it ever came to this?
- Did Dame ask out privately on June 26th when he and Cronin had that long conversation? If so, did Cronin's statement afterwards force Dame to ask out publicly instead?

Some people think all these things are true including me. That's why I don't think Dame is breaking any sort of loyalty, because the way this situation was handled by the org was very bad.

Some people think they're all false and that Cronin's done nothing wrong and that Dame is screwing him.

You mention Joe traded players to destinations they preferred. You do understand that is only because the return was palatable to him and Jody. If they did not like the return there is no way in hell they would have pulled the trigger. Those just worked well for all. Not so much for Dame and his Miami or bust stance. You ask a lot of hypothetical questions that only Dame, Goodwin, Cronin and Jody can answer. But plans change as the assets change. Portland got lucky and got the 3rd pick. Who they drafted was based on who Charlotte took before them. I have no problem with understanding that Joe and Dame probably had many conversations about many things, but at the end of every conversation, they surely ended with the understanding that plans change, but as of this minute, this is the plan. After the draft order is set plans can change many times in a short amount of time. Everybody knows this. But paramount to everything, Joe owes his allegiance to Jody and the organization. And everybody knows this. And lets remember, in negotiating, silence is golden. Cronin has no duty to announce when/if Dame asked out. His leverage is at its highest if the other club he might be talking to does not know Dame has asked out, and he has no obligation to inform them he has asked out. We are fans, not management.

 

[Hoopguru]

I think shot starts to get real closer to training camp

Yeah, two months before season starts and much can happen.

 

[PCmor7]

You mention Joe traded players to destinations they preferred. You do understand that is only because the return was palatable to him and Jody. If they did not like the return there is no way in hell they would have pulled the trigger. Those just worked well for all. Not so much for Dame and his Miami or bust stance. You ask a lot of hypothetical questions that only Dame, Goodwin, Cronin and Jody can answer. But plans change as the assets change. Portland got lucky and got the 3rd pick. Who they drafted was based on who Charlotte took before them. I have no problem with understanding that Joe and Dame probably had many conversations about many things, but at the end of every conversation, they surely ended with the understanding that plans change, but as of this minute, this is the plan. After the draft order is set plans can change many times in a short amount of time. Everybody knows this. But paramount to everything, Joe owes his allegiance to Jody and the organization. And everybody knows this. And lets remember, in negotiating, silence is golden. Cronin has no duty to announce when/if Dame asked out. His leverage is at its highest if the other club he might be talking to does not know Dame has asked out, and he has no obligation to inform them he has asked out. We are fans, not management.

This is just Bones taking only the part of the facts that suit his narrative. Again, he's capable of bringing some good things to the forum, but he gets too emotionally involved and LETS it cloud his judgment.

Then he's staked his claim to a position and can't deviate from it after getting more information. Every bit of incoming stimuli has to support his first assertion or it's meaningless.

He has info and he gets upset if we don't draw the same conclusions from what he's offering or trust it on its face, overlooking that too many times the man who does the podcast and claims to have solid inside info has put himself out there as an advocate rather than a reporter. It's not much different than having Canzano come in here and tell us what we should feel or believe.

 

[kjironman1]

The height of that's bar might make for an interesting debate....or even an entire thread..........

Can we base it on Likes to Messages ratio?

 

[maxiep]

This has been the worst summer of my Blazer fandom. Period. And its soo weird because the future holds so much bright potential.
Dame broke my basketball heart.

im gonna go put this on repeat and sulk in my studio now…

Template public:_media_site_embed_youtube not found. Try rebuilding or reinstalling the s9e/MediaSites add-on.

Bill's departure was worse for me. Likely because we were at the mountaintop.

 

[maxiep]

Sorry... when could he have walked for nothing?

If he didn't sign the SuperMax. He could have stupped us like Aldridge did.