Zombie Derrick Jones to Portland

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craigehlo said:
Don't worry about his motor, he's like Shawn Marion Jr on the fast break. And like Marion, he's a dude that likely has some room to grow with the outside jumper as he gets more usage.
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Love your Avatar. :)
 
It will be interesting to see how he fits and performs. There will be a climate change shock that for sure!
 
With the ball going through Nurk at the high post is where a guy like DJJ can be effective, much like Walton made players around him better with his passing from the high post. Gross moved well without the ball and was always cutting and looking for back doors. Looking for the same with DJJ
 
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Note: This was filmed before Olshey's presser. I'm a little more hopeful we might utilize him correctly now. For our thoughts on that presser and how it pertains to Derrick Jones Jr, we discussed it as our first topic during Blazers Uprise Live last night.

 
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Natebishop3 said:
At the end of the day it's all going to hinge on Stotts. If they want to try him out as a starter with RoCo at power forward, that's fine, but the problem with Stotts in the past is that he was way too slow to adapt. In the playoffs it took him forever to start playing Rodney and Zach instead of Hark and Aminu. He's so stubborn about his lineups and he clings to some players like they're his binky.

We have the depth to change things up if something isn't working. Will Stotts utilize that? I have my doubts.
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Good question. One of my biggest questions going into this season, after all of the roster reconstruction, is who will be proven to be most guilty of rigid thinking. The prevailing thoughts about the Blazers backcourt by a lot of folks on this board seem to be:

1. Dame and CJ can't work together because....blah, blah, blah...we've discussed it a million times.
2. Ant is not a "true playmaker point guard" and the Blazers screwed up in not signing another vet PG.
3. Stotts is too rigid in his rotations and won't make the adjustments needed to win. (A statement that, IMO, has no doubt been true in the past, but is it because of his innate unwillingness to make adjustments or the limitations of previous rosters?)

Olshey has given Stotts a Swiss Army knife of a roster. He can mix and match the post players, wings and guards so interchangeably that there's no excuse for not making adjustments on the fly as warranted during every individual game. CJ getting killed by his man? Slip in Trent. Opposing guards too big? Move Hood to the 2. Ant still playing like a wide-eyed rookie? Bench him and play Dame and CJ exclusively at the point and let Trent & Hood have the 2G minutes. If Stotts will make those kinds of moves, there's absolutely no reason that any of the complaints listed above need to be true. So, in my opinion, either Stotts is will be proven too rigid in his thinking as a coach, or a lot of folks around here are going to be proven to be to rigid in their thinking about him and the Blazers' backcourt. Frankly, I don't know which way it's going to go, but it's one of the things I'll be watching for.
 
Tince said:
Ideally, this would be the case. This assumes Nurk's defender isn't in the key. I suspect Nurk will actually be the one throwing the most lobs to DJJ of anyone. Dame isn't known for being a terrific lob passer, but maybe that's due to a lack of targets.

Time well tell if we can put together a system where he deserves to be a full time starter and/or play 24+mpg. Obviously Miami and Phoenix did not feel that way.
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Even if Nurk’s defender is in the key, it won’t matter.

A dunk champion with a running start vs. a stationary big man trying to cover two people... I like DJJ odds.

And dame doesn’t need to throw a terrific lob. A great part of having freak athletes is you just need to get the ball in the same atmosphere as the rim. As long as he isn’t lobbing into the 200 section they’ll be ok.

Before injury he was averaging almost 24mpg.

I don’t think DJJ is the missing piece or anything like that, but it seems like you think he’s unplayable.
 
When we had Mo Harkless I used to get frustrated as he would not use his athletic ability to get more opportunities. He mentioned as the fourth option he would often find himself bored on the court and stop moving without the ball. He had some of the same attributes as DJJ athletically. If Dames continues to slowly bring the ball up court looking for seams or a shot or giving it the ball to CJ to do the same thing, without getting Nurk involved looking for cutters DJJ wont work well.
The ball must be moving within a motion offense for a slasher like him to capitalize. Dame & CJ with Nurk must make this happen.
 
BonesJones said:


Note: This was filmed before Olshey's presser. I'm a little more hopeful we might utilize him correctly now. For our thoughts on that presser and how it pertains to Derrick Jones Jr, we discussed it as our first topic during Blazers Uprise Live last night.

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Torey in 2 months:
"DJJ gives us dimensions our team never had. Opponents have a whole new set of things to worry about."
 
JoshuaHall said:
Even if Nurk’s defender is in the key, it won’t matter.

A dunk champion with a running start vs. a stationary big man trying to cover two people... I like DJJ odds.

And dame doesn’t need to throw a terrific lob. A great part of having freak athletes is you just need to get the ball in the same atmosphere as the rim. As long as he isn’t lobbing into the 200 section they’ll be ok.

Before injury he was averaging almost 24mpg.

I don’t think DJJ is the missing piece or anything like that, but it seems like you think he’s unplayable.
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Great post, I agree with most of it. I did not think Harkless was unplayable and he was the person I compared DJJ to (yes, I know they have differences). I did think Harkless hampered our offense to a certain degree that many people here harped on endlessly saying we need a better starting forward - which led to my original question here.

I think DJJ is a fine role player, but I wanted a player with the MLE that you'd feel good about having in at the end of games; maybe that guy wasn't available to us.
 
Natebishop3 said:
At the end of the day it's all going to hinge on Stotts. If they want to try him out as a starter with RoCo at power forward, that's fine, but the problem with Stotts in the past is that he was way too slow to adapt. In the playoffs it took him forever to start playing Rodney and Zach instead of Hark and Aminu. He's so stubborn about his lineups and he clings to some players like they're his binky.

We have the depth to change things up if something isn't working. Will Stotts utilize that? I have my doubts.
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I agree it's unlikely for Stotts to make changes to switch out 40% of his starting lineup in the playoffs. Frankly, very few coaches does this, and for good reason that I think people often gloss over:

Rotations are far more difficult to build than peope think, especially when you have a bunch of specialists on your roster. Switching two guys in your starting lineup might completely take away functionality of your bench, as they need some ability to score and defend as well. I would challenge anyone here to actually build a rotation with this Blazers roster that the majority of the people don't see any issue with.

I do agree with you that having guys like DJJ will put Stotts in a position where he will have to jerk around with the rotations a lot more.
 
seems like if the Blazers really want to capitalize on Jones, they need to first, ramp up their transition offense dramatically. Which means they need defensive rebounding, outlet passes, and guards who push the pace. That's a tall order considering the past

they also need to run more high post sets with Nurkic and Kanter to open baseline drives for Jones. And Dame needs to work on lobs
 
Tince said:
I think DJJ is a fine role player, but I wanted a player with the MLE that you'd feel good about having in at the end of games; maybe that guy wasn't available to us.
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This is why I'm fine with the deal. I'm looking at other players that I wanted and were given similar money and this is what I see:

JaMychal Green - 15/2 years. Better shooter, but more of a 4-5 instead of a 3-4. Duplicates Zach's skill set somewhat, and not really a great defender. I would have been okay with this, but it's the same level player as DJJ.

Jae Crowder - 30/3. Better fit for sure, but shooting is suspect in the same way that Aminu was. Also he slots into a larger role in Phoenix and it's a larger contract, so I can see why he chose them over us.

Serge Ibaka - 19/2. Yeah, was not going to pick us over Clippers or Toronto.

Christian Wood - 41/3. Could not match that offer with what we had.

Danilo Gallinari - 60/3. Could not match that offer with what we had.

Paul Millsap - 10/1. Chose a larger deal and turned down other teams to return to Boston, probably turned us down as well.

Only thing that I think we could have done different is maybe sign two depth pieces instead of just one. Harkless and Bradley for example signed for the same total amount, but Harkless was rumored to have turned down less money, and Bradley has a bigger projected role in Miami.
 
Tince said:
I get what you're saying... you have confidence we will have enough spacing on the floor that teams won't dare him to shoot/be a play maker?

He's a well below average shooter and ball handler for his position. I fear the Covington/DJJ tandom will look a lot like Aminu/Harkless and I don't want our playoff hopes to depend on them hitting 3's.
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But that's going to happen, if Stotts doesn't improve his schemes drasticly. But given the fact that he hasn't adjust or hasn't find a solution for this problem for 5 years you can assume that teams will use the same strategie over and over again
 
Labinot41 said:
But that's going to happen, if Stotts doesn't improve his schemes drasticly. But given the fact that he hasn't adjust or hasn't find a solution for this problem for 5 years you can assume that teams will use the same strategie over and over again
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If you're saying we've attacked double teams in the playoffs the same way for 5 years, I strongly disagree. Having said that, there are only so many things you can do when you have 6'3" under guards being trapped by players with much greater length. When a defense is comfortable trapping and sagging off your post/forwards, dunks and layups are not going to be an option.

I think you saw us have the most success against the double when Seth and Hood were on the wings and teams either had to give them wide open threes or provide much wider lanes in an attempt to cover two people. Ideally, you would like to have a play-maker with above average height and length be your outlet, but this roster does not have that guy.
 
Tince said:
If you're saying we've attacked double teams in the playoffs the same way for 5 years, I strongly disagree. Having said that, there are only so many things you can do when you have 6'3" under guards being trapped by players with much greater length. When a defense is comfortable trapping and sagging off your post/forwards, dunks and layups are not going to be an option.

I think you saw us have the most success against the double when Seth and Hood were on the wings and teams either had to give them wide open threes or provide much wider lanes in an attempt to cover two people. Ideally, you would like to have a play-maker with above average height and length be your outlet, but this roster does not have that guy.
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Alright then, how'd we setup the floor to try to beat the trap this year? Because the whole "Can't do anything about the trap" mindset is the wrong mentality to have if your the coach/team. But beyond that, our setup against the trap was terrible as well, compounding any pre-existing issues. Those guys wouldn't have made much of a difference against the trap given how we set ourselves up against it this year.

We saw success against OKC and DEN because they had plodding centers and they didn't commit to the trap as heavily as other teams. Gonna be harder against guys like Davis, Bam, Ibaka, Wood, etc.
 
Tince said:
"... but Stotts doesn't utilize him correctly."
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If Stotts doesn't utilize him correctly, I'll point it out.

No idea what you're trying to get at. Seems like you're implying I'll just make up critiques just to criticize Stotts, which is bullshit. Even Olshey said yesterday that we need to change up some schematic things, echoing the sentiments I had all season.
 
B-Roy said:
This is why I'm fine with the deal. I'm looking at other players that I wanted and were given similar money and this is what I see:

JaMychal Green - 15/2 years. Better shooter, but more of a 4-5 instead of a 3-4. Duplicates Zach's skill set somewhat, and not really a great defender. I would have been okay with this, but it's the same level player as DJJ.

Jae Crowder - 30/3. Better fit for sure, but shooting is suspect in the same way that Aminu was. Also he slots into a larger role in Phoenix and it's a larger contract, so I can see why he chose them over us.

Serge Ibaka - 19/2. Yeah, was not going to pick us over Clippers or Toronto.

Christian Wood - 41/3. Could not match that offer with what we had.

Danilo Gallinari - 60/3. Could not match that offer with what we had.

Paul Millsap - 10/1. Chose a larger deal and turned down other teams to return to Denver, probably turned us down as well.

Only thing that I think we could have done different is maybe sign two depth pieces instead of just one. Harkless and Bradley for example signed for the same total amount, but Harkless was rumored to have turned down less money, and Bradley has a bigger projected role in Miami.
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FTFY.

I'm not a Crowder fan so meh.

Ibaka is interesting. He likely didn't have that deal on the table day one, since the Clippers probably don't sign him if they keep Harrell. Granted, maybe Ibaka goes to the Lakers then, but I have to wonder if we actually pursued him day one.
 
BonesJones said:
FTFY.

I'm not a Crowder fan so meh.

Ibaka is interesting. He likely didn't have that deal on the table day one, since the Clippers probably don't sign him if they keep Harrell. Granted, maybe Ibaka goes to the Lakers then, but I have to wonder if we actually pursued him day one.
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Right brain fart. Maybe we made the same offer to Ibaka, maybe not, but the reports were that he had a 1 year/12 milion deal from Toronto from day one. So he would have had to like us a lot more than returning to Toronto to even consider us.

He also projects into a larger role in both Toronto and LAC (or LAL).

All speculation of course, but if I was Ibaka, I would choose one of the other 3 teams over Portland as well.
 
JoshuaHall said:
Even if Nurk’s defender is in the key, it won’t matter.

A dunk champion with a running start vs. a stationary big man trying to cover two people... I like DJJ odds.

And dame doesn’t need to throw a terrific lob. A great part of having freak athletes is you just need to get the ball in the same atmosphere as the rim. As long as he isn’t lobbing into the 200 section they’ll be ok.

Before injury he was averaging almost 24mpg.

I don’t think DJJ is the missing piece or anything like that, but it seems like you think he’s unplayable.
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If Dame drives into a clogged paint, there's a likely chance he won't have a passing window to DJJ. Can't just assume he'd be able to deliver DJJ the ball when he's surrounded by multiple defenders.

But I agree in terms of him being good as a cutter/diver/lob target, which goes directly back to the main point: His offensive productivity will depend on two things, his jumpshot and if he's utilized correctly.
 
B-Roy said:
Right brain fart. Maybe we made the same offer to Ibaka, maybe not, but the reports were that he had a 1 year/12 milion deal from Toronto from day one. So he would have had to like us a lot more than returning to Toronto to even consider us.

He also projects into a larger role in both Toronto and LAC (or LAL).

All speculation of course, but if I was Ibaka, I would choose one of the other 3 teams over Portland as well.
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He might've prefered a 2-year, $19M deal over a 1-year, $12M deal. Same with Millsap. But we'll never know if we offered him.
 
A couple of guys who gave Dame trouble with the trap are now his teammates and it's fair to say they gave other teams problems with the trap as well....good defenders pick up the pt guard before he crosses half court. Stotts coached a Lamarcus led team which had a top 10 defense before Wes injury....now with an improved roster he can hopefully get us back there again
 
BonesJones said:
Alright then, how'd we setup the floor to try to beat the trap this year? Because the whole "Can't do anything about the trap" mindset is the wrong mentality to have if your the coach/team. But beyond that, our setup against the trap was terrible as well, compounding any pre-existing issues. Those guys wouldn't have made much of a difference against the trap given how we set ourselves up against it this year.

We saw success against OKC and DEN because they had plodding centers and they didn't commit to the trap as heavily as other teams. Gonna be harder against guys like Davis, Bam, Ibaka, Wood, etc.
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Sounds like we agree, personnel can restrict a coaches ability to impliment specific schemes, as you noted with OKC and Denver.

We used a few 2-1-2 attacks against the Lakers. I thought I recalled you being happy with the options in Game 1. Do you have a non 2-1-2 scheme that you think is more effective?

As you know, when a defense traps, you don't get to decide who you pass it to ahead of time, instead you have to try and give your team as many options to be successful depending on who the defense decides to leave open. Thus, the issue we've had when teams have had the option to lay off players who are below average shooters, play-makers, and finishers at the room.

Of course, when you are 6'8" and have a more clear line-of-sight to your options, that will allow you to make better reads, throw a more direct pass, and in turn increase the pressure on the defense. Sadly for us, the guys the get doubled on our roster are 6'3" and under.
 
wizenheimer said:
seems like if the Blazers really want to capitalize on Jones, they need to first, ramp up their transition offense dramatically. Which means they need defensive rebounding, outlet passes, and guards who push the pace. That's a tall order considering the past

they also need to run more high post sets with Nurkic and Kanter to open baseline drives for Jones. And Dame needs to work on lobs
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This sounds a lot like Walton (outlet passes & high post), Lucas (rebounding), Twardzik, Hollins (pushing the pace), and Gross (cutter).

That strategy may work. We have a lot of the players with the right skill sets.
 
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B-Roy said:
This is why I'm fine with the deal. I'm looking at other players that I wanted and were given similar money and this is what I see:

JaMychal Green - 15/2 years. Better shooter, but more of a 4-5 instead of a 3-4. Duplicates Zach's skill set somewhat, and not really a great defender. I would have been okay with this, but it's the same level player as DJJ.

Jae Crowder - 30/3. Better fit for sure, but shooting is suspect in the same way that Aminu was. Also he slots into a larger role in Phoenix and it's a larger contract, so I can see why he chose them over us.

Serge Ibaka - 19/2. Yeah, was not going to pick us over Clippers or Toronto.

Christian Wood - 41/3. Could not match that offer with what we had.

Danilo Gallinari - 60/3. Could not match that offer with what we had.

Paul Millsap - 10/1. Chose a larger deal and turned down other teams to return to Boston, probably turned us down as well.

Only thing that I think we could have done different is maybe sign two depth pieces instead of just one. Harkless and Bradley for example signed for the same total amount, but Harkless was rumored to have turned down less money, and Bradley has a bigger projected role in Miami.
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returned to Denver
 
Tince said:
Sounds like we agree, personnel can restrict a coaches ability to impliment specific schemes, as you noted with OKC and Denver.

We used a few 2-1-2 attacks against the Lakers. I thought I recalled you being happy with the options in Game 1. Do you have a non 2-1-2 scheme that you think is more effective?

As you know, when a defense traps, you don't get to decide who you pass it to ahead of time, instead you have to try and give your team as many options to be successful depending on who the defense decides to leave open. Thus, the issue we've had when teams have had the option to lay off players who are below average shooters, play-makers, and finishers at the room.

Of course, when you are 6'8" and have a more clear line-of-sight to your options, that will allow you to make better reads, throw a more direct pass, and in turn increase the pressure on the defense. Sadly for us, the guys the get doubled on our roster are 6'3" and under.
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Huh? You design ways to outlet the ball out of the trap into a situation where you can attack the 4v3 advantage. The coach is literally supposed to design who to pass it to ahead of time.
 


This guy has the most flat personality I've ever seen. I thought Aminu was a bad interview but damn.....DJJ brings it to a whole nother level.
 
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