Zombie Derrick Jones to Portland

[TBpup]

In response to the OP,

.... but maybe not for long.

 

[PCmor7]

According to Stotts, Melo is also useful if the game is tied and you need a stop. Brad Stevens agrees.

Little, even when he plays I feel like he doesn’t get used or involved enough in the offense. He seems like a great finisher around the rim and through contact.

Nas is in his second year, got spotty minutes in his one year of college, barely played last year, missed all sorts of time with a variety of ailments. I'd like to see him play more, too. But the realist in me doesn't think he's consistent enough and probably confident enough to play bigger minutes and fill a bigger role just yet. Part of him disappearing offensively isn't the other guys on the floor with him. It's him, too.

 

[Tince]

Hollinger before free-agency began put Jones in a category of what type of contract he should get:

Less than the max but more than the MLE.

Yikers

He got the first half right!

 

[AldoTrapani]

Hollinger before free-agency began put Jones in a category of what type of contract he should get:

Less than the max but more than the MLE.

Yikers

Omg somebody take him then. He’s not even that great. Miami use to DNP him all the time

 

[Scalma]

Hollinger before free-agency began put Jones in a category of what type of contract he should get:

Less than the max but more than the MLE.

Yikers

he also thought whiteside was worth like 18m

 

[James lamphear]

I think Stotts fazing Jones not because of his defense because he is decent defender but is his offense he doesn't fit Stotts offense that puzzle me he started Jefferson because he definitely don't fit in Stotts offense. Stotts offense is basically screen for the guards or they try to iso that's it basically for iso type of players like Dame CJ Melo. The other guys are outlets for those type of players. Remember when Nurk use get 13-15 opportunities in PNR before he broke his leg what does he gets now maybe 7-8 opportunities. Look Roco was going strong for awhile there having some big games all sudden he doesn't even get any opportunities when he does it from other players that's not name Dame CJ and Melo and same with the other guys when they get opportunities. I am sorry the problem is not the other guys on this team the problem rely on four people Dame CJ Melo and Stotts. When you notice when we really good in the offense everyone touches the ball with ball movement and player movement then all the sudden one of the 3 brings the ball and either go iso toward the hoop or they shoot 36 footer that if ball don't go through the hoop and leads to fast break the other way. Some of you guys don't like but it's there in plain site. Yes I do believe if someone gets really hot like the old saying continue to feed the horse. But overall this don't play has a unit on offense and especially not on defense. This might the reason why others players don't want to come to Portland because they see it too. 3 things needs to happen 3 of those 4 must go in the off season. More what see happening CJ trade because I don't think any new coach going to correct what kind player he is and Melo must not be resign due he can't move on defense plus he taking away the younger guys development and Stotts because he know accountable of the other 3. Dame stay because he has shown that he can lead a team the moves the ball.

 

[Natebishop3]

We need to fire Stotts so we can at least TRY to include DJJ before the season ends. If he leaves we lose him AND we lose the MLE.

 

[wizenheimer]

We need to fire Stotts so we can at least TRY to include DJJ before the season ends. If he leaves we lose him AND we lose the MLE.

???

I'm pretty sure the MLE resets every year for each team. If Jones stays or leaves wouldn't have any bearing on Portland being able to offer an MLE to another player this summer, providing their cap-situation qualifies

 

[Natebishop3]

???

I'm pretty sure the MLE resets every year for each team. If Jones stays or leaves wouldn't have any bearing on Portland being able to offer an MLE to another player this summer, providing their cap-situation qualifies

Supposedly some members of the media have said that if Jones opts out, we lose the MLE this summer. I think someone said Dan Marang had mentioned it. Not sure how to confirm it.

 

[RR7]

Supposedly some members of the media have said that if Jones opts out, we lose the MLE this summer. I think someone said Dan Marang had mentioned it. Not sure how to confirm it.

That's not the case. You get the MLE every year. Whether it's normal or tax payer changes, but losing your mle player doesn't effect anything.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's not the case. You get the MLE every year. Whether it's normal or tax payer changes, but losing your mle player doesn't effect anything.

I don't know man

Just repeating what I heard

 

[RR7]

I don't know man

Just repeating what I heard

Yeah, sorry,, not meant as an attack on you. Whoever said it was wrong.

 

[B-Roy]

We will have the taxpayer MLE this off-season most likely. Unless some drastic salary shuffling goes down.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, sorry,, not meant as an attack on you. Whoever said it was wrong.

No worries. Not sure how to confirm what he said. Maybe tweet him? I don't use twitter at all though.

 

[Natebishop3]

We will have the taxpayer MLE this off-season most likely. Unless some drastic salary shuffling goes down.

Maybe that's what he meant. We lose the better of the two MLEs if Derrick opts out.

 

[Tince]

Maybe that's what he meant. We lose the better of the two MLEs if Derrick opts out.

Another way to look at it is: A good GM could probably get a better player with the TP-MLE than we got with the full one and we would be spending less to get greater production.

 

[tester551]

Supposedly some members of the media have said that if Jones opts out, we lose the MLE this summer. I think someone said Dan Marang had mentioned it. Not sure how to confirm it.

They're wrong.

Wiz is correct... It resets every year. Portland can use the MLE (depending upon the cap situation). Portland will almost assuredly be in the tax, so we'll get the Tax-MLE for ~$6M instead of the Full-MLE for ~$10M. This has no bearing on if DJJ is on the team or not.

Having said all that - the desire for Portland to use the Tax-MLE given the financial constraints is an entirely separate discussion.

 

[julius]

They're wrong.

Wiz is correct... It resets every year. Portland can use the MLE (depending upon the cap situation). Portland will almost assuredly be in the tax, so we'll get the Tax-MLE for ~$6M instead of the Full-MLE for ~$10M. This has no bearing on if DJJ is on the team or not.

Having said all that - the desire for Portland to use the Tax-MLE given the financial constraints is an entirely separate discussion.

I thought they weren't going to be in the tax this year?

 

[Natebishop3]

They're wrong.

Wiz is correct... It resets every year. Portland can use the MLE (depending upon the cap situation). Portland will almost assuredly be in the tax, so we'll get the Tax-MLE for ~$6M instead of the Full-MLE for ~$10M. This has no bearing on if DJJ is on the team or not.

Having said all that - the desire for Portland to use the Tax-MLE given the financial constraints is an entirely separate discussion.

After listening to several posts, I think what he meant is that we lose the ability to sign someone to that $10m contract. So we can't, in theory, offer Derrick's contract to another player. We can only offer the lower MLE, so we don't have as much buying power.

 

[tester551]

I thought they weren't going to be in the tax this year?

For the '20-'21 season, Portland will avoid the tax.
For the '21-'22 season - there is almost no way for Portland to avoid it. Therefore, Portland will have the Tax-MLE at their disposal to use this summer during FA.

 

[wizenheimer]

For the '20-'21 season, Portland will avoid the tax.
For the '21-'22 season - there is almost no way for Portland to avoid it. Therefore, Portland will have the Tax-MLE at their disposal to use this summer during FA.

probably, but not certain:



start with the 131.5M number. Than assume both Powell and Jones opt-out. That would put the Blazers at 110M in guaranteed salary. Nurkic's salary is non-guaranteed so the Blazers are at about 98M in guarantees. But they won't waive Nurkic so it's back to 110M

the tax line will be around 36M and the Apron will be around 142M. So, theoretically, Portland has 32 million in room. But that would only be if they renounced all of Powell, Jones, Zach, Kanter and Melo....which wouldn't happen. So, cap-holds alone would push Portland over the apron (Powell, Kanter, and Zach have over 30M in cap-holds). And that's probably true even if there is a mutual parting of the ways between Jones and the Blazers
*************************

but I still question the sustainability here. If Portland goes over the tax line next season, then they'd be liable for repeater tax in the 2022-23 season (taxpayers in 3 of the 4 previous seasons). And look at what their situation is that year (last column)



88M for three players. Call it 91-92M for 4 players as they'd have their 1st round pick. And say Powell has been re-signed for 20M. So then Portland is at 111-112M for 5 players. That would be about 30M margin, maybe less, between the tax line and guaranteed salary. 30M to sign 9 players. It could be a 20M margin if Olshey has re-signed Zach...and we all know he wants to.

so, 20-30M between where they are and the repeater tax; and they'd be looking at re-signing Nurkic, RoCo, Simons, and Little, plus at least 4 other players. I just can't see this ending well. The only path is to say, all-or-nothing next season and if they don't win it all...go full rebuild.

but whichever way it goes, fucking Olshey shouldn't be in charge of it

 

[Scalma]

No worries. Not sure how to confirm what he said. Maybe tweet him? I don't use twitter at all though.

Just ignore marangatan

 

[James lamphear]

probably, but not certain:

View attachment 38140

start with the 131.5M number. Than assume both Powell and Jones opt-out. That would put the Blazers at 110M in guaranteed salary. Nurkic's salary is non-guaranteed so the Blazers are at about 98M in guarantees. But they won't waive Nurkic so it's back to 110M

the tax line will be around 36M and the Apron will be around 142M. So, theoretically, Portland has 32 million in room. But that would only be if they renounced all of Powell, Jones, Zach, Kanter and Melo....which wouldn't happen. So, cap-holds alone would push Portland over the apron (Powell, Kanter, and Zach have over 30M in cap-holds). And that's probably true even if there is a mutual parting of the ways between Jones and the Blazers
*************************

but I still question the sustainability here. If Portland goes over the tax line next season, then they'd be liable for repeater tax in the 2022-23 season (taxpayers in 3 of the 4 previous seasons). And look at what their situation is that year (last column)

View attachment 38141

88M for three players. Call it 91-92M for 4 players as they'd have their 1st round pick. And say Powell has been re-signed for 20M. So then Portland is at 111-112M for 5 players. That would be about 30M margin, maybe less, between the tax line and guaranteed salary. 30M to sign 9 players. It could be a 20M margin if Olshey has re-signed Zach...and we all know he wants to.

so, 20-30M between where they are and the repeater tax; and they'd be looking at re-signing Nurkic, RoCo, Simons, and Little, plus at least 4 other players. I just can't see this ending well. The only path is to say, all-or-nothing next season and if they don't win it all...go full rebuild.

but whichever way it goes, fucking Olshey shouldn't be in charge of it

Majority teams will be in the same boat unless in next couple year margin goes way up. These owners in the last negotiation with players wasn't the smartest and there going to loose big. But will this money you have to throw out to the players and the owners get ding big time will this lead to Jody to sell the club.

 

[Natebishop3]

When was the last time we had a free agent whiff this hard?

The funny thing is that if you go back and look through this thread, you'll see a bunch of people who are unhappy with the signing because we didn't think DJJ fit our system. I'm still not convinced that DJJ couldn't be useful if he was used correctly, but this sure seems like another example of Neil being terrible at free agency.

 

[Scalma]

When was the last time we had a free agent whiff this hard?

The funny thing is that if you go back and look through this thread, you'll see a bunch of people who are unhappy with the signing because we didn't think DJJ fit our system. I'm still not convinced that DJJ couldn't be useful if he was used correctly, but this sure seems like another example of Neil being terrible at free agency.

Olsheys misses in free agency outnumber the hits, by a lot. And his additions almost never seem to line up with what Stotts prefers. No way Stotts would want guys like Jones, Aminu, and Turner if it were up to him. He has no idea how to use non shooters/scorers; I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the only recent free agents that didn’t bust were Melo and Seth Curry.

I doubt Jones will opt out, so hopefully the new coach (assuming we don’t make a deep run) can better utilize him, or Olshey can use the expiring in a trade.

 

[illmatic99]

When was the last time we had a free agent whiff this hard?

The funny thing is that if you go back and look through this thread, you'll see a bunch of people who are unhappy with the signing because we didn't think DJJ fit our system. I'm still not convinced that DJJ couldn't be useful if he was used correctly, but this sure seems like another example of Neil being terrible at free agency.

The Jones benching was predictable. It's partly why I was so skeptical in this thread initially.

But we SAW him flourish in some games and it was obvious that Terry didn't know how to maximize him. That's a coaching problem because Jones' strengths PERFECTLY align with what this team needs most. Our dumbass coach doesn't understand any system except his own antiquated one. Don't put this one on Neil at all.

 

[Natebishop3]

Don't put this one on Neil at all.

How can you not put it on Neil when it's Neil who employs the coach? He signed DJJ knowing full well how limited Terry is. If a lot of people on this board could see it coming, how could the guy being paid to know this shit not know it?

 

[Scalma]

The Jones benching was predictable. It's partly why I was so skeptical in this thread initially.

But we SAW him flourish in some games and it was obvious that Terry didn't know how to maximize him. That's a coaching problem because Jones' strengths PERFECTLY align with what this team needs most. Our dumbass coach doesn't understand any system except his own antiquated one. Don't put this one on Neil at all.

yes, Terry could’ve done more to get Jones involved, but let’s not pretend that he’s some super talent waiting to be unleashed. He was still a net negative offensively in Miami who got benched in the playoffs. There’s always optimism from me when a guy first signs, shit I even hoped Hezonja would contribute, but Jones just isn’t very good. With a new coach he can maybe be a little less shitty, but he’s still not someone I’m dying to have in the rotation. Neil whiffed.

 

[illmatic99]

How can you not put it on Neil when it's Neil who employs the coach? He signed DJJ knowing full well how limited Terry is. If a lot of people on this board could see it coming, how could the guy being paid to know this shit not know it?

Maybe he thought Terry would change. That was the discussion early in the season. Terry himself said he'd change

 

[Scalma]

Maybe he thought Terry would change. That was the discussion early in the season. Terry himself said he'd change

then he realized Kanter and Melo are awful fits for the defense they originally wanted to run. That’s on Olshey as well.