Did Brandon Roy Game the System?

[e_blazer]

Okay, this has been bugging me since I heard that Brandon's planning on making a comeback this year. It occurs to me that Brandon and his agent may have intentionally played the system to make more money in whatever amount of career he may have left.

As you'll recall, the discussion prior to the season was that the Blazers would likely use the amnesty provision on Roy because of his knees. Then we heard just prior to the start of camp that he was looking good and the Blazers were leaning towards keeping him. The next thing we hear, seemingly out of left field, is that Brandon is retiring on the advice of his doctors. This essentially forces the Blazers to use the amnesty provision in order to fill out the roster. A month or two later we hear that Brandon's getting some treatments, his knees are feeling great and he might consider a comeback. Now it sounds like almost a certainty that he'll be back and teams are lining up to use their MLE money to sign him. So, now, in addition to the rest of his existing max contract being paid by the Blazers, he'll probably get a 3 year deal for another $15-$16 million or so. Although I don't really want to believe it, it seems to me there's certainly a reasonable chance that Brandon and his agent decided that the best thing for him was to take off last year with its cramped schedule and play the system so Brandon could essentially double dip on salary.

What say you? Do you think there's anything to this and would your opinion of Brandon be diminished if it were true?

 

[PapaG]

Roy will only get paid his max contract amount until it ends. The difference is that whatever team picks him up will pay their portion of the max contract out of the contract (likely vet minimum) that he signs for.

I thought that was how it worked, right?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Someone needs to call Jeff Gillooly and put an end Roy's games.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Roy will only get paid his max contract amount until it ends. The difference is that whatever team picks him up will pay their portion of the max contract out of the contract (likely vet minimum) that he signs for.

I thought that was how it worked, right?

That's correct. The only thing working to Roy's benefit is he is making max money and can go anywhere he wants to go.

 

[e_blazer]

Roy will only get paid his max contract amount until it ends. The difference is that whatever team picks him up will pay their portion of the max contract out of the contract (likely vet minimum) that he signs for.

I thought that was how it worked, right?

That would have been the way it worked if he had been claimed off of waivers once the Blazers used the amnesty clause. However, because everybody thought he was really retiring, nobody claimed him. Now, as I understand it, he'll be able to double dip.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

That would have been the way it worked if he had been claimed off of waivers once the Blazers used the amnesty clause. However, because everybody thought he was really retiring, nobody claimed him. Now, as I understand it, he'll be able to double dip.

If this is true, this is not how some of the local media has explained it. But they (shockingly) could be wrong.

 

[PapaG]

That would have been the way it worked if he had been claimed off of waivers once the Blazers used the amnesty clause. However, because everybody thought he was really retiring, nobody claimed him. Now, as I understand it, he'll be able to double dip.

No, that's not the case as I understand it. Plus, how did Roy "game" the system? Portland didn't have to amnesty him.

 

[Minstrel]

Okay, this has been bugging me since I heard that Brandon's planning on making a comeback this year. It occurs to me that Brandon and his agent may have intentionally played the system to make more money in whatever amount of career he may have left.

As you'll recall, the discussion prior to the season was that the Blazers would likely use the amnesty provision on Roy because of his knees. Then we heard just prior to the start of camp that he was looking good and the Blazers were leaning towards keeping him. The next thing we hear, seemingly out of left field, is that Brandon is retiring on the advice of his doctors. This essentially forces the Blazers to use the amnesty provision in order to fill out the roster. A month or two later we hear that Brandon's getting some treatments, his knees are feeling great and he might consider a comeback. Now it sounds like almost a certainty that he'll be back and teams are lining up to use their MLE money to sign him. So, now, in addition to the rest of his existing max contract being paid by the Blazers, he'll probably get a 3 year deal for another $15-$16 million or so. Although I don't really want to believe it, it seems to me there's certainly a reasonable chance that Brandon and his agent decided that the best thing for him was to take off last year with its cramped schedule and play the system so Brandon could essentially double dip on salary.

What say you? Do you think there's anything to this and would your opinion of Brandon be diminished if it were true?

I can't comment on whether it's true, but I don't think the litany of events you lay out clearly shows deviousness. I think Roy could very well legitimately have retired due to how he was feeling and what doctors were telling him and then, later, after some work decided he actually could give it another go. I mean, we see this from time to time with athletes who retire due to age, like Favre or Jordan. They figure it's time to hang it up and then suddenly decide later that actually they still have something left.

It may work out to Roy's advantage to have a change of mind, but that doesn't mean he planned it that way.

 

[e_blazer]

Read FAQ #67:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67

Brandon cleared waivers, so none of the provisions about the Blazers having the amount of his salary reduced by the amount of his new contract is applicable.

Intentional or not, Brandon will get to double dip.

 

[e_blazer]

I can't comment on whether it's true, but I don't think the litany of events you lay out clearly shows deviousness. I think Roy could very well legitimately have retired due to how he was feeling and what doctors were telling him and then, later, after some work decided he actually could give it another go. I mean, we see this from time to time with athletes who retire due to age, like Favre or Jordan. They figure it's time to hang it up and then suddenly decide later that actually they still have something left.

It may work out to Roy's advantage to have a change of mind, but that doesn't mean he planned it that way.

I can't disagree with any of what you're saying, Minstrel. It could very well simply be that Brandon's going to be the fortunate recipient of a quirk in the system. OTOH, you have to admit it would be a pretty smooth move to play it that way intentionally. Announce you're retiring knowing that the Blazers will almost certainly waive you and that no other team is going to pick you up off of waivers. Take a year off, get some therapy and convince another team to pay you again for your services.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Does that include amnestied players?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Will Conroy tweeted that Roy hasn't shown up to the last four charity games he committed to then he deleted his tweet.

Kind of sounds like Roy's rehab might not be going as planned.

 

[PapaG]

Does that include amnestied players?

Yeah, that's the real question.

 

[PapaG]

Will Conroy tweeted that Roy hasn't shown up to the last four charity games he committed to then he deleted his tweet.

Kind of sounds like Roy's rehab might not be going as planned.

Roy's knees are a mess. I can understand how frustrating it would be at age 28 to be "retired" from a job that you're world class in, but hopefully somebody can talk some sense into him soon.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Yeah, that's the real question.

Yeah, my understanding was the same as yours. And that's how local media has portrayed it.

 

[PapaG]

I can't disagree with any of what you're saying, Minstrel. It could very well simply be that Brandon's going to be the fortunate recipient of a quirk in the system. OTOH, you have to admit it would be a pretty smooth move to play it that way intentionally. Announce you're retiring knowing that the Blazers will almost certainly waive you and that no other team is going to pick you up off of waivers. Take a year off, get some therapy and convince another team to pay you again for your services.

As I understood it, Roy met with the Blazers, they had a serious discussion about his future, and after that discussion, found it best to part ways.

Of course, that doesn't fit into the 'greedy Roy' meme that many here seem to subscribe in.

I'd be outraged if Roy was still worthy of a max contract, and if giving Roy the amnesty did give the Blazers cap space, but he'll be lucky to latch on for a vet minimum, and it won't be for more than next year. What team would tie up real money in Roy at this point? Hell, if somebody gives him the MLE, that's one less team with cap space to be concerned about.

 

[Minstrel]

I can't disagree with any of what you're saying, Minstrel. It could very well simply be that Brandon's going to be the fortunate recipient of a quirk in the system. OTOH, you have to admit it would be a pretty smooth move to play it that way intentionally. Announce you're retiring knowing that the Blazers will almost certainly waive you and that no other team is going to pick you up off of waivers. Take a year off, get some therapy and convince another team to pay you again for your services.

Yeah, it would be quite clever if he planned it that way. Of course, if he really doesn't have anything left, it's not going victimize Portland in any way (I believe) as they were anyway going to be on the hook for the full salary. I wouldn't necessarily feel negatively to Roy...he was the victim of some bad luck which is going to cheat him out of most of his career, I can fully understand him wanting to make use of a quirk in his favor. If he has something left and tricked Portland into letting a useful player go to do this, then it's a lot more morally ambiguous.

 

[e_blazer]

Does that include amnestied players?

Read the FAQ. It specifically addresses the amnesty situation. The compensation to the prior team only occurs if the player is picked up off of waivers. Nobody claimed Brandon off of waivers. He's a UFA and the Blazers won't see any offset from any contract he signs.

 

[e_blazer]

Of course, that doesn't fit into the 'greedy Roy' meme that many here seem to subscribe in.

Check out my avatar. I've always been a huge Brandon fan. I don't think he's a greedy SOB and most likely what I'm suggesting is off target. I'm just saying that it's possible that Brandon played the system to his advantage.

 

[jlprk]

Since Roy will make more than the max, he will be the highest-paid NBA player.

No, that's not the case as I understand it. Plus, how did Roy "game" the system? Portland didn't have to amnesty him.

He didn't "retire" in the conventional definition. That means he quit and would no longer be paid. He came to a friendly agreement with Allen to find a medical reason to leave, which meant Allen still had to pay him. So amnesty was an inevitable follow-on to his departure.

 

[PapaG]

Read the FAQ. It specifically addresses the amnesty situation. The compensation to the prior team only occurs if the player is picked up off of waivers. Nobody claimed Brandon off of waivers. He's a UFA and the Blazers won't see any offset from any contract he signs.

Well, hopefully some team signs Brandon to a max contract, then.

How that applies to the Blazers, I don't really understand. Roy didn't have an offer last year, and he could have had one. At best, he'll get a vet minimum deal, and even that is a risk for good teams.

If Roy returns to being an All-Star, and some team pays him for being an All-Star right now, well, that's apparently the risk you take.

Are you saying Roy deliberately sat out a year, from a team and city that adores him, to double-dip on some big new contract? That seems ridiculous to me.

I see a 28 year-old man who is trying everything to do what he does best, and the fact he amicably agreed to amnesty with the Blazers, freeing up cap space for the team, is fantastic. Not that he had a choice, but Brandon could have said via the media that he wasn't done, and that the Blazers did him wrong. He's never said anything like it.

 

[jlprk]

Will Conroy tweeted that Roy hasn't shown up to the last four charity games he committed to then he deleted his tweet.

Kind of sounds like Roy's rehab might not be going as planned.

It kind of makes him sound fraudulent when he makes no pre-game announcement that he knew all along he wouldn't play, while fans travel hundreds of miles to buy tickets to see him one last time, when he plans to re-enter the NBA.

30 years ago, at their "Last Concert" tours, at least the Rolling Stones showed up and played. Like Roy, they lied they were retiring, but unlike him, they didn't disappoint the audience by not playing.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

No.

 

[e_blazer]

Well, hopefully some team signs Brandon to a max contract, then.

Why do you say that? It doesn't save the Blazers any money. Brandon would just make double the maximum amount until his contract with the Blazers runs out.

Are you saying Roy deliberately sat out a year, from a team and city that adores him, to double-dip on some big new contract? That seems ridiculous to me.

I'm saying that Brandon and his agent knew prior to the start of this past season that whatever amount of time he might have left to play in the NBA, it wouldn't be long. His doctors were telling him that he should consider retiring. Brandon also knew that the upcoming compressed schedule of the shortened season would be awful for his knees. Given those factors, a smart agent certainly could have suggested to Brandon that the amnesty provisions offered a chance for him to maximize his income for whatever remaining amount of time he had left. Retire, get amnestied because it's the only smart play for the Blazers, and clear waivers before talking about a comeback. That may be pure fiction on my part, and probably is, I'm just saying it also would have been a pretty slick thing to do if you only look at the dollars.

I see a 28 year-old man who is trying everything to do what he does best, and the fact he amicably agreed to amnesty with the Blazers, freeing up cap space for the team, is fantastic. Not that he had a choice, but Brandon could have said via the media that he wasn't done, and that the Blazers did him wrong. He's never said anything like it.

Nobody significant would have said anything bad about the Blazers amnestying Roy prior to him announcing his retirement. Most people were calling the amnesty the Roy provision because he was the most likely player for it to be used on. The Blazers had decided that they weren't going to use it until Brandon announced he was retiring.

Look, I think you're probably right. I'm just saying it is also possible that Brandon pulled a pretty slick cross-over dribble on the Blazers.

 

[RoyToy]

[video=youtube;JDZBgHBHQT8]

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

No, that's not the case as I understand it. Plus, how did Roy "game" the system? Portland didn't have to amnesty him.

Yeh, I think the Blazers knew there was a good chance he would be back; but they weren't sure when or exactly what Roy would be back, so they took the opportunity to clear cap space without the fans being angry about ditching Roy.

 

[Reep]

If any of this was planned, it was likely agreed between the Blazers and Roy. As was mentioned above, this benefits both Roy and the Blazers. Roy wasn't the man, but wants to play. Blazers can't move forward with him in that position. Best for both parties.

 

[Draco]

I don't doubt Roy considered that he might come back to the NBA when he "retired" in December. But I don't think he orcestrated all of these events to get more money, I think he did it so he was in control of dictating the team he went to and the amount of rest he could get away from basketball before returning. His knees are totally fucked up, he was never the same after the injury with Artest back when he was still on his rookie contract. He knew the short season would be just ludicrous for someone with his degenerative knee injuries to attempt to work through.

When your thinking about not walking again, and not being able to play basketball again, and already have $80 million in the bank, the last thing on your mind is going to be double dipping for a mini-MLE!

Before the lockout ended but when the amnesty rules were ironed out Roy was having discussions with the players union about his options. I remember one report where he was very concerned about being claimed off amnesty for some franchise he doesn't want to play for. Minnesota was specifically mentioned as a city he didn't want to go to. Its so shocking to hear he is now actually considering signing there outright!

 

[jlprk]

Minnesota was specifically mentioned as a city he didn't want to go to. Its so shocking to hear he is now actually considering signing there outright!

What a coincidence!

<innocently flutters eyelashes>

 

[Mediocre Man]

No. Brandon didn't make the Blazers amnesty him. I hope things work out for him. I am really happy we moved on, and hopefully someday soo some of the fans can also