Don't trade the pick

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Bingo Bango said:
The “golden opportunity” is trading Lillard when he has a lot of value and will bring us a very good return. He’s our strongest trade chip by far. Trading him will not guarantee a championship, of course, but on the other hand how many more years do you want to watch him keep trying and failing to win a title? I don’t believe we have enough assets to get the pieces we need this summer for a title team, but I could be wrong. If Cronin can pull off some magic and build a championship team in one fell swoop, then I’ll be tickled pink. But I’m not holding my breath.
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that tells me nothing

what if the "golden opportunity" is Dame for Tobias Harris, Tyrese Maxey, and Philly's 2030 1st round pick. When would Portland be better then?

or for Jaylen Brown who then signs with another team in 2024. when would the Blazers be better after that?

I think people imagining the Blazers getting some godfather return from trading dame are fooling themselves

there is only one real opportunity I see in trading Dame and that's if the Blazers also trade Nurk, Simons, and Grant at the same time. Trade every asset that would bring back draft capital. Then field a crappy team for 2-4 seasons and load up on more high lottery picks and roll the dice. If Dame asks to be traded and the Blazers don't do that they are totally mismanaged under terrible ownership
 
wizenheimer said:
that tells me nothing

what if the "golden opportunity" is Dame for Tobias Harris, Tyrese Maxey, and Philly's 2030 1st round pick. When would Portland be better then?

or for Jaylen Brown who then signs with another team in 2024. when would the Blazers be better after that?

I think people imagining the Blazers getting some godfather return from trading dame are fooling themselves

there is only one real opportunity I see in trading Dame and that's if the Blazers also trade Nurk, Simons, and Grant at the same time. Trade every asset that would bring back draft capital. Then field a crappy team for 2-4 seasons and load up on more high lottery picks and roll the dice. If Dame asks to be traded and the Blazers don't do that they are totally mismanaged under terrible ownership
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Dame for Knicks unprotected 2024 2026 2028 2030 picks, unprotected swaps in 2025 2027 2029 and salary filler (Fournier etc) I've had Knick fans tell me they'd do it.

Dame for Ben Simmons(salary filler only) and every one of the Nets valuable picks unprotected, they have some great ones from Durant trade and have freed up their own 2028 2030 ones

Dame for #4 and salary filler and two future firsts. Houston wants to win now with Ime. Maybe they aim to sign Harden too.

These are just a few rough ideas, also see Paul George, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, and Kevin Durant trades for examples of teams that got a nice haul.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Dame for Knicks unprotected 2024 2026 2028 2030 picks, unprotected swaps in 2025 2027 2029 and salary filler (Fournier etc) I've had Knick fans tell me they'd do it.

Dame for Ben Simmons(salary filler only) and every one of the Nets valuable picks unprotected, they have some great ones from Durant trade and have freed up their own 2028 2030 ones

Dame for #4 and salary filler and two future firsts. Houston wants to win now with Ime. Maybe they aim to sign Harden too.

These are just a few rough ideas, also see Paul George, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, and Kevin Durant trades for examples of teams that got a nice haul.
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Ghastly
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Dame for Knicks unprotected 2024 2026 2028 2030 picks, unprotected swaps in 2025 2027 2029 and salary filler (Fournier etc) I've had Knick fans tell me they'd do it.

Dame for Ben Simmons(salary filler only) and every one of the Nets valuable picks unprotected, they have some great ones from Durant trade and have freed up their own 2028 2030 ones

Dame for #4 and salary filler and two future firsts. Houston wants to win now with Ime. Maybe they aim to sign Harden too.

These are just a few rough ideas, also see Paul George, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, and Kevin Durant trades for examples of teams that got a nice haul.
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I do not believe, for a single second, that any of those trades would be offered. Not for one damn second. It's just hopium propaganda by the trade-Dame narrative
 
Now if the Blazers do trade Dame, yes it makes sense to trade Nurk too, although I'm not sure he has much value at his overpaid contract. If you can get a 1st round pick or a young player yes do that trade. If not then keep him and hope he gains value closer to the end of his contract.

Ant you could flip for value, but without Dame he might have a bigger role on the offense and increase his value a lot in the months ahead. So I'd explore trade options, especially if we draft Scoot, but there is no urgency to trade him.

Grant can't be traded as a free agent for much value, if Dame were gone then I think contract negotiations with him need to be more strict as its more important he is signed at a reasonable rate where he has positive trade value. Try to be open with him that you want to sign him to a good deal to teach the young guys the first few months of the season, then look to explore trading him to a winner by the deadline assuming the Blazers are expectedly out of the playoffs. If he walks in free agency to another team then so be it, that is better then the Blazers having him on an overpaid contract with negative trade value.

Another advantage to going for a rebuild I don't hear, is the Blazers don't have to do anything to free up the pick owed to Chicago. There actually starts to be a chance that it won't convey. Think of that as a downside risk protection, if the Blazers rebuild gets stalled and takes a few more years to get back to the playoffs than we'd like, at least the Blazers would eventually get their first round pick back from that Nance trade.
 
wizenheimer said:
I do not believe, for a single second, that any of those trades would be offered. Not for one damn second. It's just hopium propaganda by the trade-Dame narrative
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Why do you think there isn't a single second Dame would have similar value to Gobert?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Go back over the past, oh, 5 or 6 trades this franchise has made. Has there been ONE where you thought, "Holy shit, that's better than I was expecting!"
Not only that, I'll wager that (unless you have no idea about players on other teams) there hasn't been one when you haven't thought "is that IT??"
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AldoTrapani said:
Dude he’s about to be 33 and who wins titles building around point guards? Curry is rare bc he had 2 other Hall of Famers
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Different assets, different year. No idea what kind of talks have gone on this offseason. I think Dame has an idea of what we can get and i think management has him dialed in. We'll see
 
wizenheimer said:
why do you think there are other idiot GM's besides Minny's that would have that much interest in Dame they'd match what was universally considered the stupidest NBA trade in decades?
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They don't have to be. Dame is a better player with more value than Gobert.

Maybe it ends up being one less first round picks than these trade, maybe not, whatever.

Point is, there are likely very enticing trade packages that can be explored the whole summer for Dame. The Blazers won't have to settle for some Tobias Harris and spare parts or De'Andre Ayton deal, if ultimately its decided by both himself and the team he should be moved.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Dame for Knicks unprotected 2024 2026 2028 2030 picks, unprotected swaps in 2025 2027 2029 and salary filler (Fournier etc) I've had Knick fans tell me they'd do it.
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Of course they would—but why would Portland? We wouldn’t get a single thing from that trade in the coming season, and then only mid-level picks in the years afterwards. Horrible deal for a player of Lillard’s stature.
 
Bingo Bango said:
Of course they would—but why would Portland? We wouldn’t get a single thing from that trade in the coming season, and then only mid-level picks in the years afterwards. Horrible deal for a player of Lillard’s stature.
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We finally agree on something. I found the idea ghastly.
 
I think the most likely trade destination for dame is Miami. They can trade herro and lowry along with picks. We then flip herro to the magic where he would fit perfectly with for at least #6, 36, and a future 1st along with Isaac. I bet hornets gonna draft scoot so we take miller. And Walker at 6. We have a good core of simons, sharpe, miller, and Walker already that we just have to fill players around them that fit perfectly. We also can flip lowry for picks too. Isaac probably doesn’t have value so we try to rehab it
 
Bingo Bango said:
Of course they would—but why would Portland? We wouldn’t get a single thing from that trade in the coming season, and then only mid-level picks in the years afterwards. Horrible deal for a player of Lillard’s stature.
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Could end up with something like four top5 picks those latter years, even a #1 overall picks such as Wemby. Or if you don't want to wait that long, in a year the Blazers flip some of those picks in a few different trades for great starters.

Draft picks are like currency for NBA trades - and that NY example is a shit load of draft equity, up there for the most ever in an NBA trade. From a NY franchise that has some of the least playoff success the last 20 years in the NBA. I doubt NY would offer that trade, but if they do and I'm exploring Dame trades I'd jump on it.
 
damianlillard said:
I think the most likely trade destination for dame is Miami. They can trade herro and lowry along with picks. We then flip herro to the magic where he would fit perfectly with for at least #6, 36, and a future 1st along with Isaac. I bet hornets gonna draft scoot so we take miller. And Walker at 6. We have a good core of simons, sharpe, miller, and Walker already that we just have to fill players around them that fit perfectly. We also can flip lowry for picks too. Isaac probably doesn’t have value so we try to rehab it
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Yuck! Miami doesn't have picks, and Herro ain't worth much on his huge contract. No we're not going to be able to flip that for high lottery picks. No thanks. I'd rather just have Dame watch from the bench if it came to that deal.
 
tykendo said:
We finally agree on something. I found the idea ghastly.
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Its funny because two Blazer fans say its such low value its ridiculous and the Blazers would never consider it.

Other Blazer fans are saying its soo much value the Knicks would never consider it and its a ludicrous suggestion.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Its funny because two Blazer fans say its such low value its ridiculous and the Blazers would never consider it.

Other Blazer fans are saying its soo much value the Knicks would never consider it and its a ludicrous suggestion.
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it's not so much the "value" argument although that's part of it

it's that the Knicks already have Brunson, who was their best player, by far, and they'd be trying pair him & Dame at the same time they give up total control of their picks for 7 years.
 
MrDraftGuy said:
Green, Cunningham, Oladipo, and even Russell are 20ppg guards (the former two still have All star potential and the latter reaching it). Fultz faced a major injury that impacted his career.

Either way, we should frame it as "Top Point Guard Prospects" instead (going as far back as when CP3 was drafted since the era of PGs before was weak, "*" asterisk indicates All Star selection):

Ivey
Cunningham - hyped
*LaMelo
*Morant - hyped
*Trae
Fultz - super hyped
*Simmons - hyped
*D'Lo
Payton - no PGs in Top 6/weak year for PGs (Smart is SG and Exum is a SG and had no experience playing PG before the Jazz tried to make him one)
Burke - no PGs in Top 6/very weak lottery in general (Oladipo not really PG)
*Dame
*Kyrie - hyped
*Wall - super hyped
Rubio
*Rose - super hyped
*Conley
Foye - weak year for PGs
*D-Will/*CP3 - both neck in neck level of hype out of college so will include both

Essentially, the top PG prospect in every draft has turned out good to great if there is a PG prospect worthy of being Top 6. The majority of them go on to become All-Stars (11/17...may become 13/17 in a few years) and around half become All-NBA. Unfortunately, some things like mental issues (Ben Simmons case) or injuries (Wall, Rose, Fultz maybe) cannot be controlled.

However, you're more likely to hit a stud rather than not - especially if the PG has HYPE.
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This draft was memorable for Blazer fans. Probably for Atlanta Hawks fans too. (2005 draft)

upload_2023-5-19_19-24-48.png
 
RonBrewer said:
Different assets, different year. No idea what kind of talks have gone on this offseason. I think Dame has an idea of what we can get and i think management has him dialed in. We'll see
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Translation: "Every time before has been shit, yes, BUT THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT!!!!!"
 
Rastapopoulos said:
That's what we thought about Shareef Abdur-Rahim
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Yes the board near unanimously loved that trade initially, but I was decidedly in the other very lonely camp loudly hating it the moment it was announced. It made for absolutely terrible on court chemistry on both ends as Portland's two best players (Zbo, SAR) could only play inside on offense and neither could defend. Together they clogged the middle on offense making each worse. Though he sucked everywhere on offense, with no jumper to speak of Theo Ratliff could also only be somewhat effective if he played inside so it was a true John Nash clusterfuck of stupidity doomed to fail... which is what I posted the day the trade happened.

I'm fine with being on the opposite side from you on this view too. My preference for Bigs is defense and that is not KAT's forte so he is not the ideal target that I'm pining for... I'm just contending he'd be a big upgrade over JN. Like Nurk, he's only okay on D. Unlike Nurk, he's a load on offense. His lethal 3 point threat (career 40% from deep on 4.2 attempts) pulls the defending Big out of the paint for others to slash to the hoop. Offensively he's just a great overall shooter with his career TS% besting Nurkic 62% to 55%. His game is much more complimentary to others, so I really don't get the SAR reference.

Regardless, what does Portland have that they'd really want? The pick of course... Ant maybe? With Rudy there they certainly don't want Nurk. The general consensus from the outset when they traded for Rudy was that he and Karl were a poor pairing which would also be true of Nurk and Karl. I just don't see it

STOMP
 
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Rastapopoulos said:
Translation: "Every time before has been shit, yes, BUT THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT!!!!!"
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If you're here for the lolz, then kindly piss off. I don't need you translating shit for me. If you want to be all gloom and doom then have at it
 
What do
Walton
Clyde
Dame
Porter
Petrie
Cliffy
Sabas
LMA
Roy


all have in common
 
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