Politics Duds announcement run for Governor

[SlyPokerDog]

I don't think anybody in here has suggested any kids should be prevented from playing sports.

But we already are. Look at the huge expenses and problems with club sports and traveling teams in the offseason. Look at how many fewer multi-sports athletes we have in high school now.

 

[Phatguysrule]

But we already are. Look at the huge expenses and problems with club sports and traveling teams in the offseason. Look at how many fewer multi-sports athletes we have in high school now.

But there's no requirement to be in club sports or traveling teams.

There were summers when we didn't have that as an option. So my kids called some of their friends and we put together some teams.

We should definitely have better access to the fields and courts that our tax dollars pay for, IMO.

But what are you suggesting?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

But there's no requirement to be in club sports or traveling teams.

There were summers when we didn't have that as an option. So my kids called some of their friends and we put together some teams.

We should definitely have better access to the fields and courts that our tax dollars pay for, IMO.

But what are you suggesting?

Some kids are playing far too many games and tournaments in the offseason due to their involvement with club teams. Maybe yours didn't have that problem but some boys club teams are playing 4 and 5 games a week.

Anyway, that's a discussion best for another thread.

My point being is we need to be looking at ways to make sports more inclusive than exclusive.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Some kids are playing far too many games and tournaments in the offseason due to their involvement with club teams. Maybe yours didn't have that problem but some boys club teams are playing 4 and 5 games a week.

Anyway, that's a discussion best for another thread.

My point being is we need to be looking at ways to make sports more inclusive than exclusive.

Yeah, my daughters played two games per day every weekend.

The unfortunate part is that's where the money is. People show up and pay to watch games.

But kids get better in practice. In training. Unfortunately our public schools don't give us access to courts. Or they charge $50 to $100 per hour. Because club teams will pay it.

I agree, there should be levels for every player who wants to play. And it's possible to do. I suggested that to our high school feeder program many times.

And not just being on the team, but getting time on the court in a competitive atmosphere.

But that would have taken work...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Yeah, my daughters played two games per day every weekend.

IMO, that is too much.

Some tournaments that's nessesary, but not every weekend day.

 

[Phatguysrule]

IMO, that is too much.

Some tournaments that's nessesary, but not every weekend day.

It's alot. About 1.5 hrs per day of activity. But its hard work, for sure.

 

[crandc]

The reason so many voted for Trump over trans athletes was a $250 million campaign bombarding airwaves and social media to convince voters the biggest danger to girls and women is trans athletes. People who two years earlier had never heard of trans athletes were positively foaming at the mouth with rage over this threat to their daughters and American womanhood. And only electing a rapist could protect us.
Not new.
A few years ago Travis County, Texas voted to repeal a civil rights ordinance that included gender identity. The campaign began after a high school girl was raped in school restroom by her former boyfriend to punish her for breaking up with him. The boy had raped another girl for same reason. Nothing to do with trans people. But a scare campaign began that any man could enter women's restroom or locker room merely by saying he's really a woman.
Millions of dollars spent campaigning against marriage equality with scare stories it would legalize polygamy, child marriage and sex trafficking in guise of marriage. Every time the Bush administration was in political trouble they raised terror threat level and put anti marriage equality in ballot. Also keep gays out of military because gay men will look at straight men in shower and servicewomen will be raped by lesbians.
The exact same people who fought marriage equality and now fight trans rights a generation earlier killed the Equal Rights Amendment with a campaign that ERA would legalize gay marriage and rape.
People who never met a women's right they didn't oppose and never cared about women's sports became the supposed defenders of women against rape whenever it involved queers.
Or men of color. Trump began his first campaign saying Mexico sent rapists. Former Republican governor of Maine said drug dealers, and you know what color they are, were raping little white girls. During Civil Rights movement, white supremacists insisted we need segregation to protect pure Southern womanhood from hordes of Black rapists
This big time opposition to very small number of trans athletes was not organic. It was bought and paid for by Elon and other billionaires to put their boy in office.

 

[barfo]

See Canadian women's powerlifting. Nobody's getting hurt. But it's completely destroyed any semblance of competition in the sport.

It's become a joke. A mockery.

And we were all such huge fans of Canadian women's powerlifting before this.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

And we were all such huge fans of Canadian women's powerlifting before this.

barfo

Many people were. Many more are now aware.

That's what people are concerned about happening to their sports.

 

[barfo]

There is a MASSIVE difference in physicality. My daughter is a D1 athlete who has, no joke competed against players in college who are now on the US National team and are professionals all over the world and handled herself just fine. During Christmas break she was scrimmaging against pretty much the best HS boys in the state…..these dudes were imposing. People don’t realize that. just like those HS hoopers that were dunking all over those WNBA players in scrimmages…..it’s a natural fact and you know this. Individual sports where there is no contact and chance of injury….no issues with it. Sports where they are out there banging on each other…..Just don’t like it and simply because I don’t want my child hurt.

Sports are dangerous. People sometimes die, and often get permanent physical damage. If that's something you worry a lot about, maybe don't encourage your kids to play contact sports. It's not actually a requirement.

Pretty sure your kid is statistically VASTLY more likely to be hurt by someone who isn't trans than someone who is.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Sports are dangerous. People sometimes die, and often get permanent physical damage. If that's something you worry a lot about, maybe don't encourage your kids to play contact sports. It's not actually a requirement.

Pretty sure your kid is statistically VASTLY more likely to be hurt by someone who isn't trans than someone who is.

barfo

But it's different for men and women. For example, women and girls who play sports are up to 8 times more likely to tear their ACL than men or boys. Because men's bodies and women's bodies are different. Their hip angles are different. Their knees are different.

Going further, men have elongated musculature. Heavier bones. Larger capacity hearts and larger capacity lungs.

When you watch men and women play contact sports together the difference is clear. Men can go all out 100% and be a little bit crazy when it's all men on the court.

But if they do that when there are women or girls on the court one of the women is very likely to get hurt.

This is no longer a risk. It's a certainty.

 

[THE HCP]

The three sports i've seen just by searching recently included powerlifting, track and field and swimming.

The boogeyman would like you to believe that cis women are getting abused on the daily because of this.

This feels an awful lot like when people would complain about how they might miss out on a college admission because they aren't a person of color.

Whats more helpful is being a part of a discussion for a solution where one shares their concerns instead of writing off an entire population and excluding them.

I don’t care about winning or losing or if it’s “fair” is my thing. I care simply about physicality and possible injury. That’s my ONLY concern.

 

[julius]

There is a MASSIVE difference in physicality. My daughter is a D1 athlete who has, no joke competed against players in college who are now on the US National team and are professionals all over the world and handled herself just fine. During Christmas break she was scrimmaging against pretty much the best HS boys in the state…..these dudes were imposing. People don’t realize that. just like those HS hoopers that were dunking all over those WNBA players in scrimmages…..it’s a natural fact and you know this. Individual sports where there is no contact and chance of injury….no issues with it. Sports where they are out there banging on each other…..Just don’t like it and simply because I don’t want my child hurt.

So here's an idea...don't scrimmage against men then?

And like I said, the people who are trans athletes aren't your 6'5" built like a linebacker who wants to dominate women's sports.

And look at Maya Lesnar, should she not compete in certain sports because she's build like a truck and could probably bench press school bus?

 

[THE HCP]

So here's an idea...don't scrimmage against men then?

And like I said, the people who are trans athletes aren't your 6'5" built like a linebacker who wants to dominate women's sports.

And look at Maya Lesnar, should she not compete in certain sports because she's build like a truck and could probably bench press school bus?

Not worried about the scrimmages, the guys let up while playing the girls. I’m talking about NCAA competition. You can’t just sit out a game. Swimming/running/archery….. more power to ‘em.

 

[julius]

Not worried about the scrimmages, the guys let up while playing the girls. I’m talking about NCAA competition. You can’t just sit out a game. Swimming/running/archery….. more power to ‘em.

Again. .000002% does not warrant this much attention.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Again. .000002% does not warrant this much attention.

The crazy thing is the people screaming the loudest seem to be the people that havent even come across this happening to their situation yet. They are just scared that it "might" happen.

Meanwhile, people are being hurt for real in other places because of the current administration.

But sure. This issue is why I'll continue to vote for whats happening in Minnesota.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

• Athena Del Rosario (UC-Santa Cruz): A goalkeeper who competed for the UC-Santa Cruz women's soccer team for multiple seasons before coming out publicly, according to OutSports.

• Quinn (Duke University): While identifying as nonbinary/trans, they played for the Duke women's soccer team, becoming a standout player, before representing Canada in the Olympics, reports The Duke Chronicle.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

• Athena Del Rosario (UC-Santa Cruz): A goalkeeper who competed for the UC-Santa Cruz women's soccer team for multiple seasons before coming out publicly, according to OutSports.

View attachment 80790

• Quinn (Duke University): While identifying as nonbinary/trans, they played for the Duke women's soccer team, becoming a standout player, before representing Canada in the Olympics, reports The Duke Chronicle.

View attachment 80791

Those are the only two examples of transgirls playing college soccer.

 

[julius]

Those are the only two examples of transgirls playing college soccer.

Burn down the house!!!!!¡¿

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’ve watched my daughter playing sports in scrimmages with men involved. I don’t have to tell you this, but there is quite a difference in an 18 year old female D1 athlete and a 22-24 year old male D1 athlete. It is magnified when shit gets real out on the pitch.

Club level or recreation that’s on the females to be a part of, but in NCAA competition I would feel much more comfortable not having my kid going for a 50/50 loose ball situation with a grown man. I’ve had my daughter get thrown down and had her collarbone shattered TWICE by somebody her OWN size, and that was tough enough to deal with.

If it’s swimming/gold or any other sport like that, more power to everybody…… team sports like soccer, I just feel a bit different.

Swimming/golf/running etc then yes it might not be a risk of physical injury.

But the example of trans winning and girls not or even not allowed to compete from a qualification would have me as a parent very upset as well.

Its clear that Olympic sports and pro sports all require differentiation based on sex at birth. Makes no sense to me that college or youth would have different rules.

If there is noncompetitive sports or noncompetitive individual I have no problem with trans on a team. The issue is when girls either don't win or don't make a team because of someone born a biological male.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The three sports i've seen just by searching recently included powerlifting, track and field and swimming.

The boogeyman would like you to believe that cis women are getting abused on the daily because of this.

This feels an awful lot like when people would complain about how they might miss out on a college admission because they aren't a person of color.

Whats more helpful is being a part of a discussion for a solution where one shares their concerns instead of writing off an entire population and excluding them.

I mean a discussion of how to help trans is fine. I'm all for a discussion.

The issue for many is the examples that do have an impact and rules where trans are allowed to compete against girls. The rules are black and white - either trans are allowed in girls sports or not.

While those might only be one trans athlete you are unconcerned with. To all the teammates and opponents (100x to 1000x for each athlete) the impact is much larger. Then its multiplied in the media even further. Then to voters its an even larger issue. Ultimately thats how it becomes a significant factor in elections.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think we're forgetting about what's truly important here. Look at the increasing obesity rates in this country, look at the political and social polarizations. Sports are so much more than who is the best, and we've forgotten that.

Sports benefit kids physically by improving fitness, strength, and long-term health; mentally by boosting confidence, reducing stress, and enhancing cognitive skills; and socially by teaching teamwork, communication, and leadership, leading to better academic performance and lifelong healthy habits. Key advantages include lower anxiety, better focus, discipline, and social skills, while also promoting a healthy weight and heart.
Physical Health Benefits

• Stronger Body: Builds strong bones, muscles, heart, and lungs, improving cardiovascular health.
• • Healthy Weight: Helps control body weight and reduce body fat.
  • Disease Prevention: Lowers the risk of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart disease, and stroke.
  • Motor Skills: Develops coordination, balance, and functional movement skills.

Mental & Emotional Benefits

• • Improved Mood: Reduces rates of depression, anxiety, and stress.
  • Higher Self-Esteem: Builds confidence and a positive self-image through achievement and belonging.
  • Resilience: Teaches kids to handle disappointment, manage pressure, and learn from losing.
  • Better Sleep: Promotes better sleep patterns.

Social & Life Skills Benefits

• • Teamwork: Fosters cooperation, communication, and working towards a common goal.
  • Leadership: Develops leadership qualities and responsibility.
  • Discipline & Work Ethic: Teaches commitment, discipline, and perseverance.
  • Socialization: Creates opportunities to build friendships and peer relationships.

Academic Benefits

• • Better Grades: Associated with improved concentration, attention, and academic performance.
  • Cognitive Function: Enhances problem-solving skills and overall brain health.
  • Structure: The routine of sports encourages good study habits.

Hey I'm all for diet, exercise, sleep being important for everyone. We put our girls to bed at 7pm, we don't' have sugar in the house, we don't have screens, they play tons of sports.

Being healthy while super important is a pretty different discussion from which group competitive trans athletes should compete with.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

On the grade school and high school level:

Now, if we want to say that a trans person in sports like swimming or track should not have their result count for individual results but can for the team, I think that's a fair compromise.

In sports like basketball, soccer and volleyball, they're on a minutes restriction. Maybe no more than 50%? 40%?

The fear is trans athletes can give teams an unfair advantage. Let's find ways to remove that or make it less of a factor but allow them to still participate, because that is what is important and what we've lost focus on for all kids.

In high school, my best friend and I were the two tallest players on our team, and we're 6'4. Hood River had twins that were 6'9. LaSalle's point guard was my height and the rest of the team taller than that. They were the defending state champions and hadn't lost on their house court in years. But my senior year we beat them! We didn't go to state, didn't win many games, but we beat those bastards!


College sports:

Let's see what happens on the high school level and if we can use some of that.

I'm willing to bet most of us who went to college played on intermural sports teams. Some of my favorite sports memories were playing on the co-ed intermural football teams at UofO. I met my college girlfriend when I threw her in the mud rushing the QB. Should we ban trans people from that level of sports too?

In sports, you're always going to run into situations or games where you think the other team has an unfair advantage.

Luka ending up on the Lakers and the Mavs being secretly given the first pick in the draft for that. The frozen draft envelope conspiracy.

Trans kids, gay kids, all kids, deserve to be allowed to particiapte in sports because it gives them so many more benefits than just winning.

Trans kids can all play in sports, its just they can choose to not be competitive, or they just have to play with the group they were biologically born to.

I played in boys basketball leagues that had a girl on the team. It was fine and we all enjoyed it just as if she was our sister/cousin.

In my high school in the 90s a girl sued the district to compete in wrestling and won. She joined the team. That was fine.

I see no reason being trans should exclude one from sports. If its non competitive I'm fine with trans being on a girls team. The issue is competition where girls lose to a trans, or safety concerns.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

But we already are. Look at the huge expenses and problems with club sports and traveling teams in the offseason. Look at how many fewer multi-sports athletes we have in high school now.

Seperate issue but totally agree on this. We have family friends that have their girls playing 100% basketball year round and over years ultimately paying well into six figures. They think some foreign club league being affiliated with the NBA actually has some benefits and their kids are going to get scholarships or becomes pros. It's insane.

I'll never have my girls play 100% one sport. Different seasons and they need to be well rounded athletes. Maybe their last years of high school they can decide to do more specialization.

A lot of parents just make bad choices. The club sports brainwashing parents to fork over money reminds me of groups selling timeshares and its always to lower income groups.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

And we were all such huge fans of Canadian women's powerlifting before this.

barfo

It isn't a very popular sport - but imagine anyone who did compete in it as well as their family/friends. It would be very upsetting to them.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Sports are dangerous. People sometimes die, and often get permanent physical damage. If that's something you worry a lot about, maybe don't encourage your kids to play contact sports. It's not actually a requirement.

Pretty sure your kid is statistically VASTLY more likely to be hurt by someone who isn't trans than someone who is.

barfo

Thats why I'm careful as shit when driving the kids, they wear helmets when skiing, etc.

Try to reduce whatever risk to their safety I can.

Just saying there are more dangerous things doesn't mean we should allow a smaller danger or risk.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Again. .000002% does not warrant this much attention.

If its such a small percent why do you care that the tiny group with an unfair advantage isn't allowed to compete against a group without that advantage?

It warrants the attention because some voters and a party are in favor of one specific policy - and another group of voters and political party clearly opposes that same policy.

You might think it doesn't warrant such attention - everyone decides their own level of importance by their vote.

 

[Phatguysrule]

On the grade school and high school level:

I don't think it matters much at the grade school level. Kids are so light that there isn't much injury risk and the stakes aren't as high. this grade level is less about competition.

But it should still be up to the league. The league should have protection for offering AFAB only competitions.

Now, if we want to say that a trans person in sports like swimming or track should not have their result count for individual results but can for the team, I think that's a fair compromise.

Why not just compete at a lower competitive level?

In sports like basketball, soccer and volleyball, they're on a minutes restriction. Maybe no more than 50%? 40%?

The fear is trans athletes can give teams an unfair advantage. Let's find ways to remove that or make it less of a factor but allow them to still participate, because that is what is important and what we've lost focus on for all kids.

At this age there are multiple divisions for precisely this reason. So kids have an opportunity to compete.

Why can't they just compete in a division with others of similar athletic ability?

In high school, my best friend and I were the two tallest players on our team, and we're 6'4. Hood River had twins that were 6'9. LaSalle's point guard was my height and the rest of the team taller than that. They were the defending state champions and hadn't lost on their house court in years. But my senior year we beat them! We didn't go to state, didn't win many games, but we beat those bastards!

The difference in capability in many athletic competitions between 6'4" Asigned Male At Birth and 6'9" AMAB is far FAR less than the the difference between those AMAB and AFAB. especially when you're talking about athletes who train.

We've already seen this in track where AMAB compete outside the top 150 in the state but dominate the girls division and win the state championship.

College sports:

Let's see what happens on the high school level and if we can use some of that.

I'm willing to bet most of us who went to college played on intermural sports teams. Some of my favorite sports memories were playing on the co-ed intermural football teams at UofO. I met my college girlfriend when I threw her in the mud rushing the QB. Should we ban trans people from that level of sports too?

There should be no ban at all. Individual leagues and competitions should have the freedom to choose what is best for their league.

Intermural level sports is exactly where co-ed teams make the most sense and it should be encouraged if at all possible.

In sports, you're always going to run into situations or games where you think the other team has an unfair advantage.

Luka ending up on the Lakers and the Mavs being secretly given the first pick in the draft for that. The frozen draft envelope conspiracy.

Trans kids, gay kids, all kids, deserve to be allowed to particiapte in sports because it gives them so many more benefits than just winning.

Absolutely agree. There are levels that all of these kids can play and we should not discourage them from playing. There should be no law banning anybody from anything.

Leagues should have protections for allowing AFAB only competitions without getting sued.

All genders should have the right to play up if they can compete at that level and make a team.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The reason so many voted for Trump over trans athletes was a $250 million campaign bombarding airwaves and social media to convince voters the biggest danger to girls and women is trans athletes. People who two years earlier had never heard of trans athletes were positively foaming at the mouth with rage over this threat to their daughters and American womanhood. And only electing a rapist could protect us.
Not new.
A few years ago Travis County, Texas voted to repeal a civil rights ordinance that included gender identity. The campaign began after a high school girl was raped in school restroom by her former boyfriend to punish her for breaking up with him. The boy had raped another girl for same reason. Nothing to do with trans people. But a scare campaign began that any man could enter women's restroom or locker room merely by saying he's really a woman.
Millions of dollars spent campaigning against marriage equality with scare stories it would legalize polygamy, child marriage and sex trafficking in guise of marriage. Every time the Bush administration was in political trouble they raised terror threat level and put anti marriage equality in ballot. Also keep gays out of military because gay men will look at straight men in shower and servicewomen will be raped by lesbians.
The exact same people who fought marriage equality and now fight trans rights a generation earlier killed the Equal Rights Amendment with a campaign that ERA would legalize gay marriage and rape.
People who never met a women's right they didn't oppose and never cared about women's sports became the supposed defenders of women against rape whenever it involved queers.
Or men of color. Trump began his first campaign saying Mexico sent rapists. Former Republican governor of Maine said drug dealers, and you know what color they are, were raping little white girls. During Civil Rights movement, white supremacists insisted we need segregation to protect pure Southern womanhood from hordes of Black rapists
This big time opposition to very small number of trans athletes was not organic. It was bought and paid for by Elon and other billionaires to put their boy in office.

The opposition to trans in girls sports could have a bunch of bigots. That doesn't invalidate the issue though.

I guess I just don't really care what people are out there spending money or spreading hate. Plenty on all sides and I'd rather just not spend my time looking at any of it.

I focus on clear policies and what candidates support or oppose. Personally I would be more likely to support candidates that don't allow trans in competitive girls sports. Majority of voters feel that way thus its an issue that generally helps republicans and hurts democrats.

Doesn't mean I'll vote for a republican over a democrat. There's always many factors. But in close elections where me and others are the key swing votes this and other centrist policies can be a big difference on the ultimate outcome. Biden captured those voters in 2020. Trump got them in 2016+2024.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I mostly just know of local politics from Oregon and Texas - but generally it seems to me we have local/state Democrats that have dumber policies than Republicans - while at the national level we have dumber Republican policies. Plenty of good and bad candidates in both parties though.

Although as I think about it seems like the minor local party often has better policies? Republicans in Oregon/Portland, Democrats in Texas, Republicans in Austin - etc all seem better. Once a party is in the majority they just get more extreme and cater to the lowest common denominator.