Eating Crow about Scoot (1 Viewer)

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Natebishop3 said:
Joe was rolling the dice for sure.

He's hoping that two of the three picks are mediocre.
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partly I'm sure

a poster at RealGM who has demonstrated source(s) with the Blazer front office before, said months before the trade was made that Cronin (and Schmitz presumably) were really high on Avdija and trying to land him. So they probably valued him pretty highly and were OK with sending 4 draft picks

I suspect that the FO was really trying to land a forward with play-making skills. Olshey was always looking for that because he knew CJ's weakness as a play-maker and was looking to cover for it. Evan Turner...Hezonja...Nance were the result. I think that's probably something of a repeat with Ant and Avdija
 
wizenheimer said:
partly I'm sure

a poster at RealGM who has demonstrated source(s) with the Blazer front office before, said months before the trade was made that Cronin (and Schmitz presumably) were really high on Avdija and trying to land him. So they probably valued him pretty highly and were OK with sending 4 draft picks

I suspect that the FO was really trying to land a forward with play-making skills. Olshey was always looking for that because he knew CJ's weakness as a play-maker and was looking to cover for it. Evan Turner...Hezonja...Nance were the result. I think that's probably something of a repeat with Ant and Avdija
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It doesn't make sense though, because Scoot needs the ball in his hands.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Yet....

I actually think Scoot has a great shot when he is WIDE open. The question is how long will it take him to be able to shoot like that when under pressure?
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The sooner he does it more often the sooner he'll get better at it.

Means we probably don't want Simons and Grant hucking all those shots.
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't know where those stats came from. But the game/minutes averages:

Scoot 27.8
Cam Thomas 35.2
Cunningham 36.6
Doncic 37.3

so obviously, Scoot is driving at a higher rate. That's kind of a raw stat

if you sort by average drives/game, Scoot is 5th:

View attachment 66961

* if you sort by average FGM, Scoot is tied for 23rd (3.0 - same as CJ, Dame, and Julius Randle)

* if you look at FG% on drives for players averaging over 10 drives/game:

Damian Lillard 66.7
Darius Garland 64.0
Jordan Clarkson 63.6
Coby White 62.5
Norman Powell 60.0
Tyrese Haliburton 57.9
Brandon Ingram 57.1
Donovan Mitchell 57.1
Dennis Schröder 56.7
Giannis Antetokounmpo 56.5
DeMar DeRozan 56.3
De'Aaron Fox 55.6
Kevin Durant 55.6
Julius Randle 54.5
Kyrie Irving 53.8
Cade Cunningham 53.5
Jimmy Butler 52.9
Cam Thomas 52.5
Scottie Barnes 52.0
Tre Mann 51.9
Ja Morant 51.7
Josh Giddey 50.0
Luka Dončić 50.0
Tyrese Maxey 48.9
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 48.6
Scoot Henderson 48.4
LaMelo Ball 48.3
Tyler Herro 47.6
RJ Barrett 46.7
Trae Young 46.7
James Harden 46.4

my hunch is that conversion rate is generally going to improve thru experience

*************************
* would need to add FT's to this mix as well because FT's are a major component of generating points off drives:

Dejounte Murray 6.0
Zion Williamson 4.5
Paolo Banchero 4.4
Luka Dončić 3.8
Kevin Durant 3.3
Cam Thomas 3.2
James Harden 3.0
Jimmy Butler 3.0
Kyle Kuzma 3.0
DeMar DeRozan 2.8
Devin Booker 2.8
Scoot Henderson 2.8
Anfernee Simons 2.6
Collin Sexton 2.5
De'Aaron Fox 2.5
Ja Morant 2.5
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 2.5
Deni Avdija 2.4

this stat needs to be gauged with the number of drives

***********************************

the scoring rate is track by pts and pts%; for points:

Tyrese Maxey 13.5
Luka Dončić 13.3
Jalen Brunson 12.5
Cam Thomas 12.2
Kevin Durant 11.3
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 11.3
Cade Cunningham 11.0
Ja Morant 10.8
De'Aaron Fox 10.0
Dejounte Murray 10.0
LaMelo Ball 9.8
Norman Powell 9.8
Zion Williamson 9.8
James Harden 9.3
Jordan Clarkson 9.0
Scoot Henderson 9.0
Kyrie Irving 8.8
Dennis Schröder 8.6
Giannis Antetokounmpo 8.5

and for scoring rate (for volume drive players):

Kevin Durant 100
Norman Powell 97.5
Kyrie Irving 83.3
Tyrese Maxey 75.0
Luka Dončić 74.6
Giannis Antetokounmpo 73.9
Jordan Clarkson 73.5
Cam Thomas 70.1
DeMar DeRozan 69.6
Ja Morant 69.4
Damian Lillard 69.0
De'Aaron Fox 69.0
Paolo Banchero 68.9
Jaden Ivey 68.5
Anfernee Simons 65.6
Cade Cunningham 65.5
Donovan Mitchell 65.5
Jalen Williams 62.8
Jaylen Brown 62.5
LaMelo Ball 61.9
Kelly Oubre Jr. 60.5
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 59.2
Jalen Brunson 58.1
Anthony Edwards 58.0
Tre Mann 57.4
Scottie Barnes 56.6
Josh Giddey 55.8
Kyle Kuzma 55.6
Dennis Schröder 55.1
Julius Randle 54.7
Jalen Johnson 54.2
Tyler Herro 52.8
James Harden 52.1
Jimmy Butler 51.6
Zion Williamson 51.3
Jrue Holiday 48.0
Scoot Henderson 47.9
Tyrese Haliburton 47.2
Dejounte Murray 45.5
Darius Garland 45.1
Trae Young 44.8

* that isn't the entire picture either as players operate in dribble-drives with the dual roles of scoring and facilitating teammates. S you'd need to look at these volume driver in terms of assist percentage AND turnover percentage

Tyler Herro 18.9 - 1.9
Darius Garland 18.3 - 7.0
Jordan Poole 18.2 - 11.4
Jimmy Butler 16.1 - 0.0
Trae Young 14.9 - 5.7
Coby White 14.8 - 8.2
Donovan Mitchell 14.5 - 3.6
Ja Morant 14.5 - 9.7
RJ Barrett 14.3 - 5.7
Tre Mann 13.0 - 3.7
James Harden 12.7 - 7.0
Kyrie Irving 11.9 - 2.4
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 11.8 - 1.3
Dennis Schröder 11.5 - 5.1
Josh Giddey 11.5 - 0.0
DeMar DeRozan 10.9 - 4.3
Scoot Henderson 10.6 - 5.3
Jalen Brunson 9.3 - 4.7

all in all, Scoot's driving skills are encouraging for a 20 year old but they need a lot of improvement

*************************************

probably most important is looking at Scoot last year vs this year

drives/game: rookie Scoot 12.0....sophomore Scoot 18.8
FG% on drives: rookie Scoot 41.2%....sophomore Scoot 48.4%
FTM on drives: rookie Scoot 1.2....sophomore Scoot 3.0
points/drive: rookie Scoot 5.8....sophomore Scoot 9.0
scoring rate: rookie Scoot 48.3%....sophomore Scoot 47.9%
assist rate: rookie Scoot 9.3%....sophomore Scoot 10.6%
turnover rate: rookie Scoot 8.7%....sophomore Scoot 5.3%

nothing real dramatic other than the fact that he has increased his volume of drives by 57% while also improving his efficiency and production. The most encouraging, for me at least, is his reduction in turnovers. Last year, his assist/turnover rate was 1.1; this season it's 2.0. Now that's a dramatic improvement

obviously, only a 5 game sample size, which is nearly useless, but considering how bad he looked last year, most of the time, this is all encouraging. Would be interesting to revisit these numbers 40 games into the season
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Wow, thanks!
 
THE HCP said:
No need to eat crow. This means as much as him struggling a ton last season. UPS and DOWNS. I've said 5 times on here....only played 60 games and some change in his career and is only 20. He'll go on a stretch this year where he is a mess and he'll get murdered on here.......I'll hold my judgement for a couple seasons. Happy for this kid. Hard worker!
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This.
 
Phatguysrule said:
He was always so athletic that he didn't need to. I see it all the time.

And it's probably not that he can't do it, rather that he's never had to do it in live action. So he's just not comfortable when he actually has to do it. So overplaying the right puts him in an uncomfortable position and then he shoots a lower percentage either trying to force it with the right or because he's not used to going left.

The hope is that with quality NBA coaching he will be finishing left-handed, live, in practice and in training so that it'll just happen in a game and he doesn't have to think about it.

That's part of the problem with playing down. And why I always want my daughters playing at the highest level possible. You just get so many bad habits playing against people you can easily dominate.

I think Scoot would have been far better off going to college.
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They need to strap his right arm to his body during practice and make him play left handed.
 
kjironman1 said:
They need to strap his right arm to his body during practice and make him play left handed.
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Lol. That would be interesting.

Honestly, it's as simple as making sure he's getting left handed reps (so he's at least using proper technique) and telling him that right-handed scores don't count.

Or tell him he gets an extra 5 minutes of game time for every left-handed bucket he gets during the game.
 
inconceivable said:
Who are the consolation prizes for those who miss out on Flagg?? Ace Bailey, anyone else good?
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If the Blazers miss out on the top 5 (it's Bailey, Flagg, and three point/combo guards right now), then the next best thing may be to address their lack of shooting with someone like Knueppel or McNeeley. McNeely I like better as a lethal shooter at the SF/PF spots with size. I don't see how Risacher is a better prospect than either guy (although I was very low on Risacher compared to consensus).
 
BonesJones said:
If the Blazers miss out on the top 5 (it's Bailey, Flagg, and three point/combo guards right now), then the next best thing may be to address their lack of shooting with someone like Knueppel or McNeeley. McNeely I like better as a lethal shooter at the SF/PF spots with size. I don't see how Risacher is a better prospect than either guy (although I was very low on Risacher compared to consensus).
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There is no "next best thing" if the Blazers miss out on a top five pick. It would be malpractice on Cronin's part and he should then be fired. They tanked last season, fell to seven in maybe the worst draft class in 30 years to dick up a chance at Flagg, Bailey, Harper or Edgecombe! They have already fucked up and won two games that should have been guaranteed losses by playing too much Ant/Grant and not enough Scoot and any other young player at the end of those wins. I'll accept the victory if it's Scoot or any other young guy leading the charge. Do not need to see Ant or Grant at the end of games.
 
BIG Q said:
There is no "next best thing" if the Blazers miss out on a top five pick. It would be malpractice on Cronin's part and he should then be fired. They tanked last season, fell to seven in maybe the worst draft class in 30 years to dick up a chance at Flagg, Bailey, Harper or Edgecombe! They have already fucked up and won two games that should have been guaranteed losses by playing too much Ant/Grant and not enough Scoot and any other young player at the end of those wins. I'll accept the victory if it's Scoot or any other young guy leading the charge. Do not need to see Ant or Grant at the end of games.
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Ant is 25
 
BIG Q said:
Could not care less. He has been tutored to be a no defense tweener that is not a great shooter, penetrator or passer. He should be gone. Not worth arguing over though. Moving along.
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I feel you. But when you grow high school prospects you gotta get value afterwards.
 
BIG Q said:
There is no "next best thing" if the Blazers miss out on a top five pick. It would be malpractice on Cronin's part and he should then be fired. They tanked last season, fell to seven in maybe the worst draft class in 30 years to dick up a chance at Flagg, Bailey, Harper or Edgecombe! They have already fucked up and won two games that should have been guaranteed losses by playing too much Ant/Grant and not enough Scoot and any other young player at the end of those wins. I'll accept the victory if it's Scoot or any other young guy leading the charge. Do not need to see Ant or Grant at the end of games.
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How can people be so bent over winning a few games when two years ago we won 33 and landed the 3rd pick but last year won ten games less (23) and landed the 7th pick?

Don't those facts prove a few wins don't really matter that much?

There is a reason its called a lottery…..
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
How can people be so bent over winning a few games when two years ago we won 33 and landed the 3rd pick but last year won ten games less (23) and landed the 7th pick?

Don't those facts prove a few wins don't really matter that much?

There is a reason its called a lottery…..
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here's some other 'facts': the Spurs had the 2nd worst record that season with 22 wins and ended up with Wembanyana as the 1st pick. Orlando had the 2nd worst record the season before and landed Banchero with the first pick; Minny had the 3rd worst record in 2019-20 and drafted Anthony Edwards with the first pick
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
How can people be so bent over winning a few games when two years ago we won 33 and landed the 3rd pick but last year won ten games less (23) and landed the 7th pick?

Don't those facts prove a few wins don't really matter that much?

There is a reason its called a lottery…..
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It's a weighted lottery. Probabilities and all...
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's a weighted lottery. Probabilities and all...
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exactly. Its fixed. That's why i believe a few more or less wins don't mean shit. Nba doesnt want Ptown to be good and on tv because we wont get views from the east.
We aren't getting the number one pick regardless of increasing our odds a few percentage points.
People freaking out about a win here or there are being unreasonably upset. Their right.. but nauseating it is to read day in and day out the same negativity.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
exactly. Its fixed. That's why i believe a few more or less wins don't mean shit. Nba doesnt want Ptown to be good and on tv because we wont get views from the east.
We aren't getting the number one pick regardless of increasing our odds a few percentage points.
People freaking out about a win here or there are being unreasonably upset. Their right.. but nauseating it is to read day in and day out the same negativity.
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It's not fixed. More losses increase the odds of better draft position.

Nobody is out to make Portland bad and they certainly aren't cheating the draft to do it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's not fixed. More losses increase the odds of better draft position.

Nobody is out to make Portland bad and they certainly aren't cheating the draft to do it.
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That increase in odds isnt significant enough to mean alot, as indicated by our last two draft years.
Others can feel free to spend the year complaining about a win or two and trades not happening.
Not worth the negative energy that puts this place in, to me.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
That increase in odds isnt significant enough to mean alot, as indicated by our last two draft years.
Others can feel free to spend the year complaining about a win or two and trades not happening.
Not worth the negative energy that puts this place in, to me.
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Well, I'd like to enjoy watching them. I can't enjoy watching Simons and Grant dominate the offense and refuse to give effort on defense or rebounding. I have some hope that Ayton may be useful in the longer term, so he doesn't bother me.

As long as they are putting a bad product on the floor I'll discuss that bad product.

A much better product would be shipping those guys off for draft capital and letting the young guys take over. Maybe not a winning product, but definitely much better.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Well, I'd like to enjoy watching them. I can't enjoy watching Simons and Grant dominate the offense and refuse to give effort on defense or rebounding.
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Try paying attention to the games rather than rely on preconceived notions. Both of them are doing much better in that regard.
 
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