OT Either stop locking threads or close the OT forum down (1 Viewer)

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How is it a lack of empathy? Because he didn't apologize for something he didn't need to apologize for?

Empathy isn't apologizing.

Empathy is giving a shit about how you affect others.

If you say something, and someone else gets super angry about it, EMPATHY is not digging in and telling the other person to get over it because you weren't wrong to say what you did.

If you say something, and someone gets super angry about it, EMPATHY is taking five seconds and asking yourself "Why did that just happen? Maybe I should back off."

Apologizing isn't weakness, even if you're not wrong. Even if you don't have to apologize. It's part of the conversation that HOPEFULLY ends with both of you being happier than when you started.
 
I wish it were that simple. But I don’t want to have to apologize for every micro aggression that someone feels on here.

I’d rather people just not assume I’m a racist asshole.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks here who don't think you're a racist. Can't speak for the latter, though.
 
Also, and be completely honest. What do you think his reaction would’ve been?

Do you think he would’ve accepted that as not being racist?

Or do you think he would’ve started out in all caps telling me how racist it is, and to gtfo?

Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?
 
Empathy isn't apologizing.

Empathy is giving a shit about how you affect others.

If you say something, and someone else gets super angry about it, EMPATHY is not digging in and telling the other person to get over it because you weren't wrong to say what you did.

If you say something, and someone gets super angry about it, EMPATHY is taking five seconds and asking yourself "Why did that just happen? Maybe I should back off."

Apologizing isn't weakness, even if you're not wrong. Even if you don't have to apologize. It's part of the conversation that HOPEFULLY ends with both of you being happier than when you started.

He's not required to meditate on the inner working of someone who called his comments racist.

But lets say your right and it's a lack of empathy. My only point is why can't the other party, the one who overreacted FIRST, show empathy first and understand what the actual intention was? Why can't they show an interest in thinking about the other person's feelings?

What locks threads is people overreacting to stupid shit.
 
Why can't it just be condescending and not racist?

If you walked up to a redneck with a hillbilly accent and said, with a condescending tone of voice, "I'ma edumacate you," how well would that go?

People don't like to be talked down to. To me, saying "edumacate" is a way of making fun of people with bad grammar. Maybe with poor intelligence. To me, it has always been about making fun of people from the south.... not necessarily black or white. But I have also heard people at school (when I went to school) say something along the lines of "I'm gettin me an edumacation!" That's really the only way that I have heard that word. So that's why I had never thought of it as any kind of racist context.

Not everything is an attack on you man. If you have a different perspective, and someone has a genuine question, why not just talk about it?

Hillbilly isn't a race. And you keep moving in this hillbilly direction when we know why he said it. Context matters. Imo there's really no argument about it. He's not a hillbilly so why would we think that he's using hillbilly language?

Answer this for me:

My white side of the family (believe I have one or not) calls their kids "lil monkey" all the time. The Black kids (there are 4 of the 14) don't get called that. Why?

Because these forward thinking white folk understand that's why.
 
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He's not required to meditate on the inner working of someone who called his comments racist.

But lets say your right and it's a lack of empathy. My only point is why can't the other party, the one who overreacted FIRST, then also show empathy and understand what the actual intention was? Why can't they show an interest in thinking about the other person's feelings?

What locks threads is people overreacting to stupid shit.

When your life experience is full of people saying things specifically to belittle you or people like you, in clever ways that are not directly, obviously terms associated with your race specifically to pretend you weren't being racist (i.e., dogwhistling), maybe your radar for dogwhistling is sensitive enough that sometimes there are false positives.

(if I'm speaking out of school, I'll edit or delete this)

Again, the conversation has to be one where an apology isn't going to end with the other person saying they won the conversation. That's not going to happen when the first person is doubling down on belittling the reacting guy as a victim.
 
Oh good, semantics. If I say something that's not racist, and someone publically says "that's racist", I'm offended.

As I've explained multiple times, I look for personal insults. And most of the time when I'm looking I'm just scanning. If I see a statement by anyone that takes the forum of "You are a _________." That's pretty much a personal insult. And 99.9% of them get edited or deleted without anyone noticing. I don't lecture, scold, discipline, etc. I try to keep it very simple and easy. Primarily for myself. Then we have posts that get flagged or replied to that I have to go back and read closer. @dviss1 and @MarAzul are very good at insulting people without clearly violating the personal insult rule. Then you have to entire this gray area of intent and make judgement calls on a post by post basis that leads to very unhappy people and even more arguments. It's not fun for anyone. Also it will never be a completely fair process. Staff tries to promote healthy conversation and debate because that's what forums really should be about. Debate is great for forums, grown men getting butt hurt, insulting each other, and then claiming things are unfair or they're a victim is boring. In the two threads that has caused so much drama posts from many people including Dviss have been edited or deleted. @PtldPlatypus and myself have not taken a side and have tried to be as fair as possible.

Cippy was banned for multiple personal insults even after he was asked nicely to stop, told to stop, warned to stop. After discussion with staff we as a group has decided to make that a temporary ban. As has been stated multiple times we don't like to ban people here and bannings are always a last resort.

As I originally asked of everyone, it's okay if something offends you. It's great that people communicate that. But would be nice, and is not happening enough, is that people take the time to CALMLY explain why that is offensive to them. Leave all the other bullshit behind. But let's try not to one up or shout down, "It doesn't matter that that offends you because one time at band camp this offended me more. You suck, I am more of a victim!"
 
You know what I just realized. All the guys who want to arm teachers, are the same ones that voted for Trump, and are on the same side of this argument....... that's interesting.
 
Some of the race baiters should live in Hawaii say, in Pahoa or Parkers Ranch area.....when a 500 lb Samoan American calls you a haole....try arguing your point..
 
You know what I just realized. All the guys who want to arm teachers, are the same ones that voted for Trump, and are on the same side of this argument....... that's interesting.

Also included in this Venn diagram is those who claim they aren't conservative/voted for Trump, yet always defend everything he says and always brings up the Clinton talking points.

hash tag denny
 
You know what I just realized. All the guys who want to arm teachers, are the same ones that voted for Trump, and are on the same side of this argument....... that's interesting.
Your post is a fucking idiot.
 
Some of the race baiters should live in Hawaii say, in Pahoa or Parkers Ranch area.....when a 500 lb Samoan American calls you a haole....try arguing your point..
When I went to Hawaii for the first time last year with my wife, I used the haole reference on myself in front of locals a few times and they cracked up. They loved the self deprecating humor I believe.
 
I wish it were that simple. But I don’t want to have to apologize for every micro aggression that someone feels on here.

I’d rather people just not assume I’m a racist asshole.

Then say something like that. "I'm sorry that offended or upset you but it bothers the absolute fuck out of me that you assume I'm a racist asshole. I'm not but I would like to hear why it offended you."
 
You know what I just realized. All the guys who want to arm teachers, are the same ones that voted for Trump, and are on the same side of this argument....... that's interesting.
What, the fire isn't burning hotly enough, so you want to try to pour gasoline on it?

HEY EVERYONE--INSTEAD OF SNIPING AT EACH OTHER, WHY NOT ALL JUST TAKE SHOTS AT HCP?!
 
Your post is a fucking idiot.
Why does this upset you? It's just an observation that just came to me. It's true though right? The same 4 or 5 guys that are all about pro gun this and I gotta protect my family with a missile launcher also defend everything that person in the whitehouse does no matter how idiotic it is, are also the 4 or 5 here in this thread continuing to go at a black man about what he considers racist. Seems like a pattern I just noticed and wanted to share. Am I wrong?
 
When I went to Hawaii for the first time last year with my wife, I used the haole reference on myself in front of locals a few times and they cracked up. They loved the self deprecating humor I believe.

"I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DEGRADE MYSELF FOR THEIR PLEASURE, MY RELATIVES NEVER TOOK OVER HAWAII."
 
Why does this upset you? It's just an observation that just came to me. It's true though right? The same 4 or 5 guys that are all about pro gun this and I gotta protect my family with a missile launcher also defend everything that person in the whitehouse does no matter how idiotic it is, are also the 4 or 5 here in this thread continuing to go at a black man about what he considers racist. Seems like a pattern I just noticed and wanted to share. Am I wrong?
You're wrong. I didn't vote for Trump, am not going at dviss, and am OK with teachers arming themselves if they so choose.

No line of demarcation is universal
 
When I went to Hawaii for the first time last year with my wife, I used the haole reference on myself in front of locals a few times and they cracked up. They loved the self deprecating humor I believe.

It was probably just that the way you pronounced it sounded a lot like "a-hole".
 
He's not required to meditate on the inner working of someone who called his comments racist.

But lets say your right and it's a lack of empathy. My only point is why can't the other party, the one who overreacted FIRST, show empathy first and understand what the actual intention was? Why can't they show an interest in thinking about the other person's feelings?

What locks threads is people overreacting to stupid shit.

If we had more black people here I'm not sure the narrative would be that I'm overreacting. It's not hard to relate.

My white side of the family, in the 14 years I've known them, has never even said some of the things that white people tend when trying to relate (call you bro, or dog) to you.

No, they automatically know that since I pronounce my ers and ings that they don't need to speak to me with vernacular they never use in an effort to relate.

Why do they know this?
 
As I've explained multiple times, I look for personal insults. And most of the time when I'm looking I'm just scanning. If I see a statement by anyone that takes the forum of "You are a _________." That's pretty much a personal insult. And 99.9% of them get edited or deleted without anyone noticing. I don't lecture, scold, discipline, etc. I try to keep it very simple and easy. Primarily for myself. Then we have posts that get flagged or replied to that I have to go back and read closer. @dviss1 and @MarAzul are very good at insulting people without clearly violating the personal insult rule. Then you have to entire this gray area of intent and make judgement calls on a post by post basis that leads to very unhappy people and even more arguments. It's not fun for anyone. Also it will never be a completely fair process. Staff tries to promote healthy conversation and debate because that's what forums really should be about. Debate is great for forums, grown men getting butt hurt, insulting each other, and then claiming things are unfair or they're a victim is boring. In the two threads that has caused so much drama posts from many people including Dviss have been edited or deleted. @PtldPlatypus and myself have not taken a side and have tried to be as fair as possible.

Cippy was banned for multiple personal insults even after he was asked nicely to stop, told to stop, warned to stop. After discussion with staff we as a group has decided to make that a temporary ban. As has been stated multiple times we don't like to ban people here and bannings are always a last resort.

As I originally asked of everyone, it's okay if something offends you. It's great that people communicate that. But would be nice, and is not happening enough, is that people take the time to CALMLY explain why that is offensive to them. Leave all the other bullshit behind. But let's try not to one up or shout down, "It doesn't matter that that offends you because one time at band camp this offended me more. You suck, I am more of a victim!"

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with me. I don't care if things get deleted or not. I was simply pointing out that the other party could have also taken your advice and write "Dude, I didn't mean to offend you. Sorry".

I don't have any idea of Cippy did, nor do I care, which is probably why I've never mentioned him.
 
Because these forward thinking white folk understand that's why.

This is an interesting statement. Are white people require to demonstrate forward thinking? When does this happen? Who is the judge?
Who picked the judge? Are apologies required when we flunk the occasion?
In your example about the monkeys, was the Cosell moment, the toggle point?
 
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You know what I just realized. All the guys who want to arm teachers, are the same ones that voted for Trump, and are on the same side of this argument....... that's interesting.

Oh my God, I hope you're not referring to me!
 

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