FINALLY! Don't Ask Don't Tell is over!!

[EL PRESIDENTE]

what exactly is your opinion? do you think people have the right to complain about being nude or whatever around gays of the same sex? or were you just mentioning that it might be an issue?

I don't think non-gays have any right to complain about having to share a locker room with gays. If they don't like, they can gtfo. They allow gays now. Douche bags are still not allowed.

Its pretty well known that teh gheys go have sex in gym locker rooms and saunas.

 

[bodyman5001]

Its pretty well known that teh gheys go have sex in gym locker rooms and saunas.

What, not only can they share clothes if they get a boyfriend that is the same size, they also just have sex wherever they want?

If you could program every woman with a gay man's sex drive, the world would be a waaaaaaaaaaay different place.

 

[Natebishop3]

what exactly is your opinion? do you think people have the right to complain about being nude or whatever around gays of the same sex? or were you just mentioning that it might be an issue?

I don't think non-gays have any right to complain about having to share a locker room with gays. If they don't like, they can gtfo. They allow gays now. Douche bags are still not allowed.

I think Gays have every right to be in the military, and I think straights have every right to want privacy... but privacy is not a high priority for the military. So are you saying that men and women should not have separate bathrooms?

 

[44Thrilla]

This is the kind of thinking that drives me nuts. If we DID make all unisex changing rooms then according to this logic self conscious women would be douche bags.

It is a free country, if gays are free to do something other people should be free to bitch about it.

Did I fucking say unisex? Last I checked a gay man is still a man and a gay woman is still a woman. Just because they're gay doesn't mean they should be treated differently.

 

[44Thrilla]

I think Gays have every right to be in the military, and I think straights have every right to want privacy... but privacy is not a high priority for the military. So are you saying that men and women should not have separate bathrooms?

Gays already had the right to serve, they're already serving. They just were forced to lie about who they are. So now you want to take these same people and treat them like a piece of scum? "We don't want you looking at our awesome packages since we are so hot and you obviously want to fuck us. Go change with your own kind."

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I just put bacon in my tomato soup!

 

[MARIS61]

I'm just saying, if they are going to repeal DADT, they should be prepared for some servicemen and women to ask for separate locker rooms, and they would have to give it to them because they are violating their privacy if they don't.

That's nonsense. It's pretty silly too, to think that a soldier would be that weak and vulnerable.

Military personnal sign away most of their rights and personal freedoms when they join in exchange for some pretty good compensation (free college, GI bill, 1st in line hires for government jobs and job retention is guaranteed as long as the job exists).

 

[MARIS61]

Its pretty well known that teh gheys go have sex in gym locker rooms and saunas.

I can only think of 1 way you would know that.

 

[MARIS61]

It is a free country, if gays are free to do something other people should be free to bitch about it.

You ARE free to bitch about it, no matter how petty and timid it makes you appear.

 

[MARIS61]

Nate, please. There won't be a mess. Does the YMCA have 4 locker rooms?

Not a good example since only gays use the Y.

 

[bodyman5001]

You ARE free to bitch about it, no matter how petty and timid it makes you appear.

No shit Sherlock, someone in this thread thinks that straight men shouldn't be ALLOWED to bitch about having openly gay men shower with them.

I could give a fuck about gays in the military. Hell, if it were up to me we could start an entire gay military who's sole purpose is to round up illegal immigrants. Starting with the Norwegian ones of course.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I can only think of 1 way you would know that.

Yes. Took a class on deviant behavior which explored all of this. Plus they have signs at my gym warning about sucking cawk in the shower.

 

[Minstrel]

That's all I'm saying, I think there will be problems with integration....

I'm still confused about this objection. They're already integrated. Gay men and straight men and gay women and straight women were already sharing personal space. All that's changing is whether gay men and women can self-identify as such. You're saying that homosexuality no longer being forced to be a secret violates the straight soldiers' privacy? How so?

 

[Natebishop3]

Gays already had the right to serve, they're already serving. They just were forced to lie about who they are. So now you want to take these same people and treat them like a piece of scum? "We don't want you looking at our awesome packages since we are so hot and you obviously want to fuck us. Go change with your own kind."

I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about my statement. Did I say that I personally want separate locker rooms? No. In fact, I went the opposite direction. I said there should be one locker room for men and women. I don't know why you, and others in this thread, have made this out as me personally saying that gays should be cast out into the cold.

I DID say that I think there will be members of the armed services who will be uncomfortable changing/showering with homosexuals. That's a fact. You can't say that 100% of the military will be completely fine with this change. I'm tired of people making any comment, regardless of it's actual content, into some kind of homophobic slur. I'm tired of this politically correct society where any criticisms of Obama is made into some kind of racial bigotry.

I also think there will be members of the military who want separate living quarters. This is a calculated and logical opinion. If you disagree, fine, but don't make this personal. So far I've had my posts equated to blacks and drinking fountains and treating gays like scum. What else would you like to say while we're at it?

I think it's their right to feel uncomfortable. Despite what you may think, this is America where we are allowed to think for ourselves and have opinions whether you like them or not. That's our right. If someone is uncomfortable changing or showering in front of a gay man, that's their right as an American citizen. Once you start taking away a person's right to think, you lose what this country was founded on.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What about transgendered people are they allowed to serve in the army now?

Are they going to reach out to the gay community like they do to minority neighborhoods and schools to recruit?




x

 

[Natebishop3]

What about transgendered people are they allowed to serve in the army now?

Are they going to reach out to the gay community like they do to minority neighborhoods and schools to recruit?


x

Recruiters want numbers. I don't think they care who you are as long as you sign on the dotted line. They'd recruit in grade schools if they could.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Hipsters too. They can now join the army ironically

x

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Re: FINALLY! Don't Ask Don't Tell is over!!

Recruiters want numbers. I don't think they care who you are as long as you sign on the dotted line. They'd recruit in grade schools if they could.

Yeah. I got suckered into one of those high pressure sessions where they try to comimt you to signing up for bootcamp. Alot of those guys seemed like assholes who trick people to joining the army. I just wanted the free pair of socks they promised

x

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah. I got suckered into one of those high pressure sessions where they try to comimt you to signing up for bootcamp. Alot of those guys seemed like assholes who trick people to joining the army

x

Recruiters are slime. They'll lie, cheat, and steal just to get you to join.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

"oh just sign up for boot camp...its no big deal"

"uh...no. I'm leaving now."

Repeat like five times

x

 

[Natebishop3]

"oh just sign up for boot camp...its no big deal"

"uh...no. I'm leaving now."

Repeat like five times

x

Why did you go in the first place?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Why did you go in the first place?

I think I filled out a form at a college fair because they gave me a pair of socks. They called relentlessly so I said fuck it, I'll check it out. Never considered it thought it would be quick, those fuckers were just annoying with the phone calls and messages so I thought it'd shut them up.

I never expected for them to give me a test and have me already basically one signature away from joining the fucking army. It was a hard close on their part. I suspect many people actually believe their bullshit and die because of it.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think I filled out a form at a college fair because they gave me a pair of socks. They called relentlessly so I said fuck it, I'll check it out. Never considered it thought it would be quick, those fuckers were just annoying with the phone calls and messages so I thought it'd shut them up.

You'll never shut them up... they'll keep calling and calling, and now you can't even tell them you're gay to get them off your back. I don't think people realize how many guys in bootcamp try using that excuse to get out.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm still confused about this objection. They're already integrated. Gay men and straight men and gay women and straight women were already sharing personal space. All that's changing is whether gay men and women can self-identify as such. You're saying that homosexuality no longer being forced to be a secret violates the straight soldiers' privacy? How so?

Firstly, I'm not objecting. Please get that straight.

Secondly, they're not already integrated. "Officially", the military didn't have any gay men or woman, right? Now, "officially", the military will be open to gay men and women. That means they have to "officially" integrate gay men and women into the military. I just have a feeling it won't be as seamless as some of you think it will be. You're giving the US government and the US military waaaaay too much credit in terms of logistics. Nothing is seamless in the military.

Also, I have a feeling that a lot of gay men and women will continue to stay in the closet while they are enlisted, similar to the way that most athletes do not publicly declare their homosexuality until after their career is over.

 

[maxiep]

Also, I have a feeling that a lot of gay men and women will continue to stay in the closet while they are enlisted, similar to the way that most athletes do not publicly declare their homosexuality until after their career is over.

Yep. Most soldiers don't make a big deal of their private life. I could, however, see a terrible soldier who still wants to make a career in the military sue because they claim if they weren't openly gay they would have been promoted. Claiming discrimination is always the last refuge of an incompetent.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Wikileaks guy!

 

[Minstrel]

Firstly, I'm not objecting. Please get that straight.

By "objection," I meant that it was a concern of yours, an argument against. I wasn't claiming anything about your overall position to the policy.

Secondly, they're not already integrated. "Officially", the military didn't have any gay men or woman, right? Now, "officially", the military will be open to gay men and women.

That's just semantics. They were already integrated, in that gays and straights were already mixed (and everyone knew that it was a mixed-sexuality population). The only difference was that those who were gay couldn't mention that they were.

I don't see where the major psychological difference is. Before, you knew that there may be gay people "in the shower" with you (substitute whatever personal space you want there). Now, you may or may know for a fact that there are and you may or may not know who it is. Nothing is fundamentally different...straight soldiers may (or may not) just have more details of the sexuality around them. It won't be new that they may have gay soldiers around them.

If the idea of gay soldiers sharing one's personal space bothers a soldier, they've already been bothered and made whatever compromises/peace with themselves over it. It won't be a new issue.

 

[agoo]

I have a feeling most will get over it quickly. I worked for a guy who was a retired Lt. Colonel in the US Army for 20-something years. As he explained, you didn't have time to be racist, so you got over it quickly. Same deal here if you ask me.

 

[Natebishop3]

By "objection," I meant that it was a concern of yours, an argument against. I wasn't claiming anything about your overall position to the policy.



That's just semantics. They were already integrated, in that gays and straights were already mixed (and everyone knew that it was a mixed-sexuality population). The only difference was that those who were gay couldn't mention that they were.

I don't see where the major psychological difference is. Before, you knew that there may be gay people "in the shower" with you (substitute whatever personal space you want there). Now, you may or may know for a fact that there are and you may or may not know who it is. Nothing is fundamentally different...straight soldiers may (or may not) just have more details of the sexuality around them. It won't be new that they may have gay soldiers around them.

If the idea of gay soldiers sharing one's personal space bothers a soldier, they've already been bothered and made whatever compromises/peace with themselves over it. It won't be a new issue.

I don't think you could call it a concern or an argument against. It's merely an observation... a thought on what might happen. It doesn't affect me one way or another.

The problem is Minstrel, your definition of "official" and the military definition of "official" are two very different things. I realize you think it's semantics, but it's not. If gays are officially allowed in the military, a soldier or a seaman can officially file a complaint about showering with gay men. On the flip side, if gays are not allowed and someone files a complaint, it's merely a case of he said, she said. See what I'm getting at? It opens up a mess of red tape.

This is a different military now than it was fifty years ago. This is a military with timeout stress cards and rules for drill instructors so they cannot say certain things to a recruit. This isn't Full Metal Jacket anymore. If a Soldier, Seaman, Airman, or Marine files a formal complaint because they feel that their personal rights are being violated, the military has to listen to them.

My point, in a nutshell, is that I think this opens up a can of worms. I might be wrong and you might be right. Things might go on like nothing happened with no problems whatsoever, but I have a feeling that won't be the case.

 

[maxiep]

I have a feeling most will get over it quickly. I worked for a guy who was a retired Lt. Colonel in the US Army for 20-something years. As he explained, you didn't have time to be racist, so you got over it quickly. Same deal here if you ask me.

Yep. Short-term disruption. Long-term, no big deal. Our military is too effective an organization.