Financial aid to illegal immigrants

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I guess the part I don't understand is why we should feel sorry for the people of Mexico? What makes them special? Why should they be given privileges that the rest of the world is not allowed? People in favor of illegal immigration always bring up the statue of liberty, and how this country was built on immigration. You're right...... LEGAL immigration. There are people all around the world who would love to come to the US. They would love to be able to live here, work here, and be a part of this community. They have to wait and come here legally. Why? Because their country isn't on the southern border of the US. Why should the people of Mexico get a free ride, simply because they are within walking distance to the US? Shit. Why don't we just throw our borders open and allow anyone entry into this country from anywhere in the world. Sounds like a good idea to me. There are people in Africa who are suffering WAY worse than the people of Mexico. Why don't we ship them all over here?

Fuck it, I say we scrap the whole Iraq plan. Bring our troops home, march into Mexico. Overthrow their corrupt government and start the rebuilding process down there. How does that plan sound?
 
blazerboy30 said:
What makes somebody eligible to be on the state budget committee?
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I assume the answer is that you have to be elected to the CA state legislature, and then appointed to the appropriate committee, but I am not a CA resident and have forgotten what I once knew about how CA government works.

barfo
 
Natebishop3 said:
I guess the part I don't understand is why we should feel sorry for the people of Mexico? What makes them special? Why should they be given privileges that the rest of the world is not allowed? People in favor of illegal immigration always bring up the statue of liberty, and how this country was built on immigration. You're right...... LEGAL immigration. There are people all around the world who would love to come to the US. They would love to be able to live here, work here, and be a part of this community. They have to wait and come here legally. Why? Because their country isn't on the southern border of the US. Why should the people of Mexico get a free ride, simply because they are within walking distance to the US? Shit. Why don't we just throw our borders open and allow anyone entry into this country from anywhere in the world. Sounds like a good idea to me. There are people in Africa who are suffering WAY worse than the people of Mexico. Why don't we ship them all over here?

Fuck it, I say we scrap the whole Iraq plan. Bring our troops home, march into Mexico. Overthrow their corrupt government and start the rebuilding process down there. How does that plan sound?
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There were no immigration laws in the USA in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, and most of the 1800s.

The first US immigration law was the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Like the name? It's a clue as to what immigration laws are about.

As for Mexico, as much as 30% of their population are native Americans. These peoples are recognized as sovereign nations within our nation. They were here before Columbus. They have a legitimate and special claim to be here, regardless of our borders. In fact, prior to 1848, the states of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and parts of Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Wyoming were really Mexico.

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Drawing a line in the sand or building a wall doesn't change these facts, they only restrict the free movement of these indigenous peoples.

Naturalization is a very different issue. While I'm quite liberal about letting people in, I don't at all suggest we make any immigrant a citizen. These people are classified as Persons (according to the Constitution and volumes of other law), and they're still Mexican citizens or French citizens or from wherever they came from. People born here are citizens, and that's they way it's been, as written in the constitution.

While the text on the Statue of Liberty surely signified our values at the time, it's not the sole argument for immigration. Personally, I like the "pull the ladder up after yourself" argument myself.
 
I'm tired of the canard that if you're for protecting the integrity of our borders, you're anti-immigration, are racist or want to deny people the chance your ancestors had at a better life. I'm against ILLEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL immigration only. There's a process to gain entry to this country. I have little sympathy for those who don't follow that process.
 
maxiep said:
I'm tired of the canard that if you're for protecting the integrity of our borders, you're anti-immigration, are racist or want to deny people the chance your ancestors had at a better life. I'm against ILLEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL immigration only. There's a process to gain entry to this country. I have little sympathy for those who don't follow that process.
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I agree with this.
 
Denny Crane said:
There were no immigration laws in the USA in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, and most of the 1800s.

The first US immigration law was the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Like the name? It's a clue as to what immigration laws are about.

As for Mexico, as much as 30% of their population are native Americans. These peoples are recognized as sovereign nations within our nation. They were here before Columbus. They have a legitimate and special claim to be here, regardless of our borders. In fact, prior to 1848, the states of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and parts of Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Wyoming were really Mexico.

250px-Estados_Unidos_y_la_Mesilla.PNG


Drawing a line in the sand or building a wall doesn't change these facts, they only restrict the free movement of these indigenous peoples.

Naturalization is a very different issue. While I'm quite liberal about letting people in, I don't at all suggest we make any immigrant a citizen. These people are classified as Persons (according to the Constitution and volumes of other law), and they're still Mexican citizens or French citizens or from wherever they came from. People born here are citizens, and that's they way it's been, as written in the constitution.

While the text on the Statue of Liberty surely signified our values at the time, it's not the sole argument for immigration. Personally, I like the "pull the ladder up after yourself" argument myself.
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So because their great great great great great great grandparents were from this continent, that gives them the right to come and go as they please? So by that rationale, I should be able to go back to Norway where my grandparents were from, and just put down roots without going through the legal processes? I should be able to use their health care system without paying taxes? I should be given financial aid for college simply because I have relatives that were from there?

The reason why the Mexican border extended up into what is now the SW United States is because of the Spanish, not the Mexicans. It was because of their conquest for gold. A lot of the cities in that region are named for Spanish missions. The people in Mexico have no more claim to that region than we do. Spaniards, aka Europeans, traveled across the Atlantic and claimed those areas. And if we really want to get down to it, they committed terrible atrocities against the REAL native peoples of that time.

Most of the true native peoples of that region are dead and gone, but the ones who remain are given the liberties of which you spoke of. Just because there are native americans in Mexico does not mean that they were originally from the southwestern united states, nor do they have any claim on that region.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
So because their great great great great great great grandparents were from this continent, that gives them the right to come and go as they please? So by that rationale, I should be able to go back to Norway where my grandparents were from, and just put down roots without going through the legal processes? I should be able to use their health care system without paying taxes? I should be given financial aid for college simply because I have relatives that were from there?

The reason why the Mexican border extended up into what is now the SW United States is because of the Spanish, not the Mexicans. It was because of their conquest for gold. A lot of the cities in that region are named for Spanish missions. The people in Mexico have no more claim to that region than we do. Spaniards, aka Europeans, traveled across the Atlantic and claimed those areas. And if we really want to get down to it, they committed terrible atrocities against the REAL native peoples of that time.

Most of the true native peoples of that region are dead and gone, but the ones who remain are given the liberties of which you spoke of. Just because there are native americans in Mexico does not mean that they were originally from the southwestern united states, nor do they have any claim on that region.
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The mexican people are native americans.

30% are pure native american, 50-60% are of mixed spanish/indian blood, and the rest are Caucasian or African.
 
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Denny Crane said:
The mexican people are native americans.

30% are pure native american, 50-60% are of mixed spanish/indian blood, and the rest are Caucasian or African.
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Unless they're Pueblo, Navajo, or one of the other southwestern united states tribes, they have no real claim to that region.
 
Denny Crane said:
Born here, families (ancestors) born here.

Applies to any place.
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If anything, the real native peoples of the SW United States should be thanking the Mexicans with Spanish blood lines for wiping out so many of their ancestors with disease and religious oppression.
 
Denny Crane said:
Born here, families (ancestors) born here.

Applies to any place.
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Denny, is it then your opinion that I am entitled to Russian, Belorussian, Polish, Dutch, British and French citizenship because I can trace my lineage to those countries?
 
maxiep said:
Denny, is it then your opinion that I am entitled to Russian, Belorussian, Polish, Dutch, British and French citizenship because I can trace my lineage to those countries?
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This is exactly my point.

How far back is "ancestor" defined when you want to qualify as a "native"? This line of argument just doesn't make sense to me.
 
maxiep said:
Denny, is it then your opinion that I am entitled to Russian, Belorussian, Polish, Dutch, British and French citizenship because I can trace my lineage to those countries?
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I am not at all considering citizenship an option for these people who immigrate here. I've repeatedly said this. Naturalization is a very different thing.

A Mexican citizen who comes and stays here is still a Mexican citizen. Just as a Canadian or French or Russian citizen who comes and stays here is still a citizen of their country. If they apply for citizenship, there is a process to go through that's been in place since the founding of the republic (unlike immigration laws, which have not). Citizenship includes the right to vote, to receive social security and other benefits, etc.

If you move to Russia (and they allow it), it'd be up to you to become a citizen there or not.
 
Denny Crane said:
I am not at all considering citizenship an option for these people who immigrate here. I've repeatedly said this. Naturalization is a very different thing.

A Mexican citizen who comes and stays here is still a Mexican citizen. Just as a Canadian or French or Russian citizen who comes and stays here is still a citizen of their country. If they apply for citizenship, there is a process to go through that's been in place since the founding of the republic (unlike immigration laws, which have not). Citizenship includes the right to vote, to receive social security and other benefits, etc.

If you move to Russia (and they allow it), it'd be up to you to become a citizen there or not.
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So, I should be able to enter those countries without the permission of their governments, set up shop and use their resources without paying taxes? In your mind, I have that right?
 
maxiep said:
So, I should be able to enter those countries without the permission of their governments, set up shop and use their resources without paying taxes? In your mind, I have that right?
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There are millions and millions of people who've done just that in nations around the world; not particularly the USA.

Heck, there's several million Iraqi citizens that just crossed the border and settled in Syria alone.
 
Denny Crane said:
There are millions and millions of people who've done just that in nations around the world; not particularly the USA.

Heck, there's several million Iraqi citizens that just crossed the border and settled in Syria alone.
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That response doesn't answer my question.
 
AgentDrazenPetrovic said:
everyone is free to come in, no questions asked? :crazy:
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We still have customs and inspections and that sort of thing.

Natebishop3 said:
Apparently "free" means, free health care and free education for those who don't pay taxes.
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Nothing's really free, now is it?

maxiep said:
That the citizens of that country live free within its borders. What does it mean to you?
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Flip it around. If we weren't a free country and they built a wall to keep you in. Or built a wall around your house to keep you out.
 
Denny Crane said:
Flip it around. If we weren't a free country and they built a wall to keep you in. Or built a wall around your house to keep you out.
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Once again, that's not a response to what I posted. It was just nonsense.
 
AgentDrazenPetrovic said:
yeah. but why if illegals can just come here. why bother with customs? its against our ancestors!
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999 out of 1000 would follow those rules.

When the border with Mexico was open and you didn't need a passport, I don't remember people crossing into Mexico (if at all) where the customs agents weren't.
 
Denny Crane said:
999 out of 1000 would follow those rules.

When the border with Mexico was open and you didn't need a passport, I don't remember people crossing into Mexico (if at all) where the customs agents weren't.
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Again, why bother to have customs if you are advocating open borders or aid to illegals?

what is the purpose of checking people into this country if we do not prosecute or kick out people coming in illegally?
 
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