Zombie Fire Olshey

[Lanny]

Lol, I just have 0 emotion towards this team right now which is working out well. When they win, its good, when they lose its fine. Its just a couple hours of “entertainment” and on occasion hanging out with friends at a game. Excited to see a healthy Nurk again someday.

Your kind words don't help. I'm still crushed when we lose to a team that we should beat handily. Delighted when we beat the good teams but that isn't happening as frequently as it used to.
I'm going to repeat that I attribute this to two things, too many quality players injured and a really lousy bench a combination straight from hell. Dear Neil, please get us a bench.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Even if Jody Allen isn’t paying close attention, she has to at least be aware enough to realize she is paying the stars of the team, Dame and CJ, a combined 70-85 mil per year over the next 4 seasons, and they don’t appear to be good enough to lead a team to even a .500 record without perfect health on the roster. In fact, they are 7 games below .500, which IMO is inexcusable. Doesn’t seem like Neil made a good investment. And with a league high payroll and luxury tax, the cost will surely be past onto the fans with increased ticket prices again.

 

[hoopsjock]

Well, if she isn't interested in using her front row tickets, I'd certainly gladly take them off her hands...

@SlyPokerDog is a failure if he doesn't make this happen! How great would it be to have a rotating seat available next to Olshey for one person from here who hates him to sit next to him each game?

 

[hoopsjock]

Even if Jody Allen isn’t paying close attention, she has to at least be aware enough to realize she is paying the stars of the team, Dame and CJ, a combined 70-85 mil per year over the next 4 seasons, and they don’t appear to be good enough to lead a team to even a .500 record without perfect health on the roster. In fact, they are 7 games below .500, which IMO is inexcusable. Doesn’t seem like Neil made a good investment. And with a league high payroll and luxury tax, the cost will surely be past onto the fans with increased ticket prices again.

Or she could be thinking of things in terms of long term success versus a bad stretch. I know she most likely is only wealthy because of her brother but most people who are smart with their money don't overreact emotionally to things.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Or she could be thinking of things in terms of long term success versus a bad stretch. I know she most likely is only wealthy because of her brother but most people who are smart with their money don't overreact emotionally to things.

Well, if you look at all the data over 6 years as a whole like you suggest, then last season was more likely an outlier, yet it was enough validation for Neil to go all in on the Dame/CJ pairing and extend Stotts... with a league high $148 mil payroll. Seems to me like that was the real overreaction emotionally. DEAD LAST in the entire NBA in assists for 2 of past 3 seasons doesn’t seem like a recipe for success.

 

[oldfisherman]

Or she could be thinking of things in terms of long term success versus a bad stretch. I know she most likely is only wealthy because of her brother but most people who are smart with their money don't overreact emotionally to things.

OK, I'll play.

Where do you see this long term success coming from?

As of today, our best hope centers around Dame. The longer you go out, the older he gets. The worse this roster becomes..

Short term. Even a high lottery pick is not enough help.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

It’s not like next season we will have Nurk and Whiteside... so essentially next year we are just replacing Whiteside with Nurk’s first season off major injury. Hard to imagine Nurk playing better than Whiteside is this season where Whiteside is 9th in NBA in PER, leads league in blocks, and top 5 in rebounds. I’d imagine Bazemore is gone. Will be hard to trade either expiring without taking on horrendous contract with how many expiring are available in the league. Zach is still pretty unproven, at least compared to Neil’s expectations, and lost a year of development. Hood’s career will never be the same. So Dame and CJ are 7 games below .500 with Whiteside and Bazemore, just don’t see how it gets much better next season. All of this while other teams with younger stars like Dallas and Denver still haven’t hit their prime. So if next season is also a throwaway while working Nurk and Collins back into what they need to be, then you are looking at 31 year old Dame and 30 year old CJ the year after... where is the hope of Neil refuses to trade CJ?!

 

[bobf]

Not overkill. Each one needs to play limited minutes. And then you have to figure that you need to have someone who can fill in when there's an injury at the five.

Sure you can always use more good players. But what I mean is, when Nurk is 100% you surely would like to play both of them more than 24 minutes. If you don’t you’re losing value. But I don’t think it works at all to have them on the court at the same time.

 

[wizenheimer]

Sure you can always use more good players. But what I mean is, when Nurk is 100% you surely would like to play both of them more than 24 minutes. If you don’t you’re losing value. But I don’t think it works at all to have them on the court at the same time.

it doesn't work because a lot of other teams go small ball with really potent lineups. Last year, Nurkic and Meyers combined for about 40 minutes a game at C. Zach got 54% of his minutes at C (bbref). Nurkic & Whiteside getting 24 minutes each means Portland could not match up with really mobile stretch-4's and stretch-5's so many teams run with now

it's not practical, and if the two of them are spitting 40 minutes, there's going to be problems. neither player has ever showed patience with a reduced role

 

[AldoTrapani]

Meanwhile the Thunder win their fifth straight and now 9 of their last 10. They’re 13-4 since Dec. 1. That dame shot really ah Nevermind

 

[Phatguysrule]

the way they are losing is key not just that they are losing

It doesn't matter how they lose. So long as they don't win too much. We should be upping Whiteside's value as much as possible.

That's pretty much it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

No team with Dame, CJ, Melo and Whiteside should be as bad as we are. It's a testament to just how truly stupid I am.

Completely disagree. Melo and Whiteside are the opposite kind of players you need to maximize the impact of Dame and CJ (or really any good team chemistry).

But they do exciting things, Whitesides value seems to be increasing, and they make it look like we're trying to win. Awesome.

I'm perfectly fine with this season going down the tube. This is our best shot at improving the team. The guys we had last season weren't going to get it done, and they weren't going too come back for what we'd have been willing to spend.

Trade for talent and draft well.

We're not getting a better coach than Terry Stotts and we're not going to get a better GM than Neil Olshey. Not this season and probably not next season either.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Your kind words don't help. I'm still crushed when we lose to a team that we should beat handily. Delighted when we beat the good teams but that isn't happening as frequently as it used to.
I'm going to repeat that I attribute this to two things, too many quality players injured and a really lousy bench a combination straight from hell. Dear Neil, please get us a bench.

Lol. Great post. I'm sure Neil Olshey intends to field a far superior bench next season than we are currently seeing.

Likely a far better starting unit as well.

 

[wizenheimer]

Lol. Great post. I'm sure Neil Olshey intends to field a far superior bench next season than we are currently seeing.

Likely a far better starting unit as well.

those are the exact things he said he did last summer

 

[Phatguysrule]

those are the exact things he said he did last summer

Are you kidding me? You think he traded for a bunch of expiring contracts thinking we'd win a championship with them?

If so I might have a bridge to sell...

 

[wizenheimer]

Are you kidding me? You think he traded for a bunch of expiring contracts thinking we'd win a championship with them?

If so I might have a bridge to sell...

what I think is I listened to his press conference after the off-season moves, and he said the two things you were making a joke about: that the bench was better and the the starting unit was solid. He amplified those assertions by talking about the "better" mesh of talent he had assembled and how this new team was going to be better at spacing the floor and moving the ball. His words...not mine

I didn't believe him of course....I rarely do

 

[calvin natt]

Neil O Shyster is fucking exhausting

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

what I think is I listened to his press conference after the off-season moves, and he said the two things you were making a joke about: that the bench was better and the the starting unit was solid. He amplified those assertions by talking about the "better" mesh of talent he had assembled and how this new team was going to be better at spacing the floor and moving the ball. His words...not mine

I didn't believe him of course....I rarely do

I know you have a bunch of numbers and I have come around to your side somewhat on the off season moves. I dont think they’d be a contender with this roster even healthy right now, but they’d be a lot better. I was super excited coming into this season but even then I knew that they were structuring the roster to rely a lot on Zach who got Hurt and Simons who doesn't appear to be ready. Im not sure how to judge if Zach was ready for a big jump in production, he played in 2 and a half games IIRC and was basically just ok.
I was wrong about Whiteside I thought that move was going to be great turns out my friend who is a heat fan was totally right about him
I thought Bazemore would fill in better, but he’s not good now maybe some of that is he wasnt brought in to start so his role changed but even before that he wasnt playing great.
Its a bad season and yeah NO oversold it, to be fair what GM comes out and says, “well we suck...?” At the start of the season.
I think they really thought they were a championship team coming into the year. I also think that internally they think the struggles are almost solely injuries.

 

[Phatguysrule]

what I think is I listened to his press conference after the off-season moves, and he said the two things you were making a joke about: that the bench was better and the the starting unit was solid. He amplified those assertions by talking about the "better" mesh of talent he had assembled and how this new team was going to be better at spacing the floor and moving the ball. His words...not mine

I didn't believe him of course....I rarely do

What else was he going to say? "Don't expect any of these guys to stick around... we're fully expecting to trade all of them." I actually think on paper, there was a chance this team could have been better offensively. But not defensively. And certainly not with all of these injuries.

Last season's team had run it's course. It wasn't coming back. Changes had to be made. I don't think anybody can say Paul Allen had nothing to do with the spending in 2016. We know how he fell in love with players, and he didn't mind doing what it took to keep them. Unfortunately that group only got us the playoffs every season and a couple of deep playoff runs in an incredibly competitive Western Conference. It became clear there was no way that unit was going to take us further. Time to re-tool. We're in the process of that re-tooling...

We've been the most competitive under Olshey and Stotts than we have since Trader Bob and Dunleavy. We have no room to complain unless we have somebody else in mind. And why would anybody else come to this team and this ownership situation right now? Not gonna happen unless that person is a gamble. And I'm not interested in a gamble right now. We have guys with winning experience. Stotts won a title as an assistant with Dallas, Olshey has built multiple "near championship level" teams.

I don't see an obviously better option available at Coach or GM, and I'm not aware of any deeper problems worth firing these guys over. I like the winning and positive culture they've built here.

You want to blow it all up and start over? I know I don't.

Newsflash: News conferences are are all about media spin and posturing.

 

[wizenheimer]

What else was he going to say? "Don't expect any of these guys to stick around... we're fully expecting to trade all of them." I actually think on paper, there was a chance this team could have been better offensively. But not defensively. And certainly not with all of these injuries.

Last season's team had run it's course. It wasn't coming back. Changes had to be made. I don't think anybody can say Paul Allen had nothing to do with the spending in 2016. We know how he fell in love with players, and he didn't mind doing what it took to keep them. Unfortunately that group only got us the playoffs every season and a couple of deep playoff runs in an incredibly competitive Western Conference. It became clear there was no way that unit was going to take us further. Time to re-tool. We're in the process of that re-tooling...

We've been the most competitive under Olshey and Stotts than we have since Trader Bob and Dunleavy. We have no room to complain unless we have somebody else in mind. And why would anybody else come to this team and this ownership situation right now? Not gonna happen unless that person is a gamble. And I'm not interested in a gamble right now. We have guys with winning experience. Stotts won a title as an assistant with Dallas, Olshey has built multiple "near championship level" teams.

I don't see an obviously better option available at Coach or GM, and I'm not aware of any deeper problems worth firing these guys over. I like the winning and positive culture they've built here.

You want to blow it all up and start over? I know I don't.

Newsflash: News conferences are are all about media spin and posturing.

WTF are you talking about??

Lanny said:

Your kind words don't help. I'm still crushed when we lose to a team that we should beat handily. Delighted when we beat the good teams but that isn't happening as frequently as it used to.
I'm going to repeat that I attribute this to two things, too many quality players injured and a really lousy bench a combination straight from hell. Dear Neil, please get us a bench.

you responded:

Lol. Great post. I'm sure Neil Olshey intends to field a far superior bench next season than we are currently seeing.

Likely a far better starting unit as well.

I replied:

those are the exact things he said he did last summer

and earlier in the thread you said Portland was not going to find a better GM than Olshey over the next couple of years. You also admitted that the current bench sucks and the team is a mess.

so to simplify and summarize:

* you admit this year's bench sucks and say the season is lost
* you have great confidence Olshey intends to build a "far superior bench" next season as well as a better starting unit
* when I point out that's exactly what he said he did with this year's team, you say Olshey was lying and spinning
* you're confident Olshey intends to be successful next summer even though he failed at the same job last summer, and then lied about it

and you're the one essentially saying I'm naive and gullible....ok

 

[Phatguysrule]

WTF are you talking about??

Lanny said:



you responded:



I replied:



and earlier in the thread you said Portland was not going to find a better GM than Olshey over the next couple of years. You also admitted that the current bench sucks and the team is a mess.

so to simplify and summarize:

* you admit this year's bench sucks and say the season is lost
* you have great confidence Olshey intends to build a "far superior bench" next season as well as a better starting unit
* when I point out that's exactly what he said he did with this year's team, you say Olshey was lying and spinning
* you're confident Olshey intends to be successful next summer even though he failed at the same job last summer, and then lied about it

and you're the one essentially saying I'm naive and gullible....ok

Apparently you missed the newsflash?

Here's the deal. He wasn't going to re-tool the roster intending to win a championship over the summer. If you thought he was, or that he was counting on doing that over just this last summer then you are indeed naive and gullible.

 

[wizenheimer]

Apparently you missed the newsflash?

Here's the deal. He wasn't going to re-tool the roster intending to win a championship over the summer. If you thought he was, or that he was counting on doing that over just this last summer then you are indeed naive and gullible.

your personal takes on things aren't newsflashes

I never said, one way or the other what Olshey intended to do, last summer or next summer....that was you. All I said was that your prediction of what Olshey intends to do next off-season is just about exactly what he claimed he did last off-season

 

[Phatguysrule]

your personal takes on things aren't newsflashes

I never said, one way or the other what Olshey intended to do, last summer or next summer....that was you. All I said was that your prediction of what Olshey intends to do next off-season is just about exactly what he claimed he did last off-season

Oh excellent. Maybe I just missed it.

Can you please post the link in which Olshey said he expects this team to compete for a championship as constructed this season? I'd like to read that article.

 

[Lanny]

what I think is I listened to his press conference after the off-season moves, and he said the two things you were making a joke about: that the bench was better and the the starting unit was solid. He amplified those assertions by talking about the "better" mesh of talent he had assembled and how this new team was going to be better at spacing the floor and moving the ball. His words...not mine

I didn't believe him of course....I rarely do

The bench is a joke. Of course if we had Collins, Nurk and Hood, the bench would look a lot better.

 

[jlprk]

Collins and Hood are minor pikers compared to Nurkic, our best player last season.

 

[wizenheimer]

Oh excellent. Maybe I just missed it.

Can you please post the link in which Olshey said he expects this team to compete for a championship as constructed this season? I'd like to read that article.

I don't know if there is a link to Olshey making that claim, but then I never said he did. Just that he talked about the quality of the current bench and how this team was going to be better at spacing and ball movement...which he definitely implied would fit better with the core and make for a better team

now, to be fair, I think most people believed that Olshey was spinning a lot of bullshit in July and had his fingers crossed. And his fingers were crossed on tied hands that he had tied himself. He was still trapped in the hole of his 2016 decisions, and in fact may still be trapped there....we'll know more about that after the trade deadline

The bench is a joke. Of course if we had Collins, Nurk and Hood, the bench would look a lot better.

no doubt....sure with perfect unblemished health, the Blazers would be better

but, just to take this current road trip for example:

* the Wizards would have looked better with Bradley Beal, John Wall, Davis Bertrans, Rui Hachimura, Thomas Bryant, Isaiah Thomas, Moritz Wagner, & CJ Miles. That's 104 points, 38 rebounds, and 17 assists they were missing

* Miami would have looked better with Jimmy Butler, Justice Winslow, and Kelly Olynyyk

* Toronto would have looked a lot better with Paskal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Marc Gasol, and Norman Powell

and tonight, Karl Anthony Towns is doubtful while Layman is out

Portland is not the only team dealing with injuries and missing players. Yes, Portland has perhaps more long term injuries than most teams, but that's a reason why Whiteside is the starting C instead of a scrub. Portland had plenty of time to find an excellent replacement for their missing C. Most teams have had to make do with what was on their roster at the beginning of the season

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't know if there is a link to Olshey making that claim, but then I never said he did. Just that he talked about the quality of the current bench and how this team was going to be better at spacing and ball movement...which he definitely implied would fit better with the core and make for a better team

now, to be fair, I think most people believed that Olshey was spinning a lot of bullshit in July and had his fingers crossed. And his fingers were crossed on tied hands that he had tied himself. He was still trapped in the hole of his 2016 decisions, and in fact may still be trapped there....we'll know more about that after the trade deadline



no doubt....sure with perfect unblemished health, the Blazers would be better

but, just to take this current road trip for example:

* the Wizards would have looked better with Bradley Beal, John Wall, Davis Bertrans, Rui Hachimura, Thomas Bryant, Isaiah Thomas, Moritz Wagner, & CJ Miles. That's 104 points, 38 rebounds, and 17 assists they were missing

* Miami would have looked better with Jimmy Butler, Justice Winslow, and Kelly Olynyyk

* Toronto would have looked a lot better with Paskal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Marc Gasol, and Norman Powell

and tonight, Karl Anthony Towns is doubtful while Layman is out

Portland is not the only team dealing with injuries and missing players. Yes, Portland has perhaps more long term injuries than most teams, but that's a reason why Whiteside is the starting C instead of a scrub. Portland had plenty of time to find an excellent replacement for their missing C. Most teams have had to make do with what was on their roster at the beginning of the season

It was never about this season. The players never want to hear that, and neither do the fans. That's why it's not often said.

Spending in 2016 got us our first WCF in decades. But it wasn't good enough for a championship. Most teams aren't.

But that was as far as that team was ever going to get. It's far better to take our lumps and retool now, rather than trying to do it with that group for another season or two and wasting more of Dame's prime.

Olshey isn't a miracle worker. Nobody claimed he was. But he's as good as anything else we could get our hands on. And a heck of a lot better than others we've had...

 

[joeBlazers]

Anyone knows why Stotts is still coaching this team? Maybe we are hoping for a Lottery pick?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Anyone knows why Stotts is still coaching this team? Maybe we are hoping for a Lottery pick?

Because there is nobody else available who is obviously better...

And yes, once we lost Nurk, Collins and Hood, then brought in Melo I thought a higher draft pick was likely the plan.

 

[Shaboid]

Would anyone else be okay if Chauncey Billups took the reigns? He has been talked about as someone that wants to coach, I think. He has just as many championship rings as Stotts lol