Zombie Fire Olshey (2 Viewers)

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TBpup said:
There was plenty out there. I was told by someone the season before (and before the trade deadline) that they were 95% sure he was gone based on some things they knew about him and his family situation. There just seems no way that the Blazer FO wasn't aware of this.
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didn't an assistant coach get fired for essentially confirming that?
 
wizenheimer said:
didn't an assistant coach get fired for essentially confirming that?
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Was that the Big Man coach? I remember he was fired for supposedly leaking something, but don't remember the specifics. The person who told me is a long-time Blazer player acquaintance who has had access to many of them for years. Have never doubted anything they have said and they were adamant about LA being gone.
 
wizenheimer said:
didn't an assistant coach get fired for essentially confirming that?
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Ah, the Kim Hughes saga. Many would contend that was the event that prevented Meyers Leonard from becoming the consistently useful player the Grizzlies series hinted he might be developing into.
 
TBpup said:
Was that the Big Man coach? I remember he was fired for supposedly leaking something, but don't remember the specifics. The person who told me is a long-time Blazer player acquaintance who has had access to many of them for years. Have never doubted anything they have said and they were adamant about LA being gone.
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When LaMarcus didn't sign an extension he was already moping around because it was becoming Dame's team. The writing was on the wall, clearly but I don't even care that it was. In our market if you don't have an all star signed on the dotted line for next season, you trade the dude at the deadline. You just can not afford to walk away empty handed. It was typical Olshey hubris plain and simple... it bites us a lot.

We don't trade players we need to because once an Olshey guy always an Olshey guy. We sign preposterous extensions and bid against ourselves on restricted free agents. Everything a GM could do to hamstring a small market, Olshey has done besides trading Dame for something of lesser value but wait... that might be his next trick if he doesn't make this shit work.
 
blazerkor said:
It was definitely Neil's job to know LaMarcus and if he was so prone to making unpredictable decisions (not your job or any fan's, Neil's). So, Olshey should have mitigated our risk and traded him at the deadline. The fact is in a market like this you can not afford to let an all star walk for nothing and that is what Olshey did and he should have been fired for that. Then he followed it up with a spending spree on a bunch of nobodies. The fact that the dude isn't fired is absolutely crazy.
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Paul was influential in hoping they could re-sign LA, he and Neil even traveled to meet with him and possibly felt he wood stay?
 
blazerkor said:
When LaMarcus didn't sign an extension he was already moping around because it was becoming Dame's team. The writing was on the wall, clearly but I don't even care that it was. In our market if you don't have an all star signed on the dotted line for next season, you trade the dude at the deadline. You just can not afford to walk away empty handed. It was typical Olshey hubris plain and simple... it bites us a lot.

We don't trade players we need to because once an Olshey guy always an Olshey guy. We sign preposterous extensions and bid against ourselves on restricted free agents. Everything a GM could do to hamstring a small market, Olshey has done besides trading Dame for something of lesser value but wait... that might be his next trick if he doesn't make this shit work.
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None of the all star players signed extensions at that time because they lost like 50 million dollars vs waiting 12 months to sign a new contract. The NBA changed the rules shortly after this.
 
blazerkor said:
When LaMarcus didn't sign an extension he was already moping around because it was becoming Dame's team. The writing was on the wall, clearly but I don't even care that it was. In our market if you don't have an all star signed on the dotted line for next season, you trade the dude at the deadline. You just can not afford to walk away empty handed. It was typical Olshey hubris plain and simple... it bites us a lot.

We don't trade players we need to because once an Olshey guy always an Olshey guy. We sign preposterous extensions and bid against ourselves on restricted free agents. Everything a GM could do to hamstring a small market, Olshey has done besides trading Dame for something of lesser value but wait... that might be his next trick if he doesn't make this shit work.
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Neil has built a roster with 5 starting quality players in addition to Dame.

I know this is a fire Neil thread so maybe its the wrong place for me to support him....

Like I said, the Meyers and Turner deals were horrific and I'd have been firing him over that.

But I also IMO give Neil credit where its due or don't judge him unfairly as in the Aldridge situation.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Yes Kim Hughes in June before free agency but many months after the Blazers could've traded Aldridge.
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I think the bigger point is he knew well before Aldridge left and he was the Big man coach so stands to reason he was working pretty close to Aldridge.
He also was in conversations with Stotts so it's fair to say Stotts knew. If Stotts knew you have to figure Olshey knew so essentially Olshey was trying to keep a lid on it and was willing to Fire Kim Hughes over the leak when by then there was pretty much no way they were keeping him.
Seriously i watched video of the conversation at the time and Hughes was very matter of fact about it. He certainly didn't think it was that much of a secret.
 
wizenheimer said:
didn't an assistant coach get fired for essentially confirming that?
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Yeah, he was weird about stuff like that. I have friends here in LA (a married couple-wife was a model from London) who jet-setted around the world with him on his Yacht 20 years ago. Paul was very generous and would pay for everything.

Anyways, they made one stupid mistake and it offended Paul.....and they were cut off immediately. Needless to say, they regretted it. They have told me some incredible stories about those parties on his Yacht. (a few about Mick Jagger) Paul partied a little more than I would have guessed. He valued loyalty and discretion above all.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Neil has built a roster with 5 starting quality players in addition to Dame.

I know this is a fire Neil thread so maybe its the wrong place for me to support him....

Like I said, the Meyers and Turner deals were horrific and I'd have been firing him over that.

But I also IMO give Neil credit where its due or don't judge him unfairly as in the Aldridge situation.
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Well he sure as hell didn't get anything back for the All Star that walked out the door. There is some credit due for that as well.
 
wizenheimer said:
the Crabbe contract was even worse. Not only did Portland pay Crabbe 36 million for one season of basketball with a PER under 12.0 and a BPM of -1.3, they also assumed a 2.45M stain on their salary cap for 7 years. They'd be under the tax line right now if they hadn't matched that idiot contract
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The Nets offered Crabbe the contract the Blazers matched, and there was the thought he had potential to improve to a legit 3+D option. Obviously that did not work well at all. But a GM will have mistakes such as this. On the flipside hopefully a GM has some big successes such as signing Wes Matthews to the MLE.

The Turner contract was horrible because he was an established veteran player without the potential to improve that Crabbe may have had.

Meyers was terrible because he didn't have the physical abilities to ever be more than a change of pace role player.

That Neil couldn't recognize those and hamstrung the franchise for 4 years could rightly lead to firing him.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
I think the bigger point is he knew well before Aldridge left and he was the Big man coach so stands to reason he was working pretty close to Aldridge.
He also was in conversations with Stotts so it's fair to say Stotts knew. If Stotts knew you have to figure Olshey knew so essentially Olshey was trying to keep a lid on it and was willing to Fire Kim Hughes over the leak when by then there was pretty much no way they were keeping him.
Seriously i watched video of the conversation at the time and Hughes was very matter of fact about it. He certainly didn't think it was that much of a secret.
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I saw the video and agree with what you said.

I don't see how people twist this into Olshey made a mistake not trading Aldridge the year prior. Kim Hughes interview was well after any trade opportunities.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yeah, he was weird about stuff like that. I have friends here in LA (a married couple-wife was a model from London) who jet-setted around the world with him on his Yacht 20 years ago. Paul was very generous and would pay for everything.

Anyways, they made one stupid mistake and it offended Paul.....and they were cut off immediately. Needless to say, they regretted it. They have told me some incredible stories about those parties on his Yacht. (a few about Mick Jagger) Paul partied a little more than I would have guessed. He valued loyalty and discretion above all.
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I'm glad the Rolo LMA Batum Wes Dame Blazers had a chance to end their run naturally on the court.

It's like some of you Blazer fans forget so easily how awesome it was to see Dame 0.9 , Aldridge dual 40 point games in Houston, and the first Blazer playoff series win in 14 years.

I would have been devastated if Neil broke up the team months later just to get a couple future picks for Aldridge or something because of a risk he might walk in free agency. All of the casual, non message board fanatic Blazer fans would've been devastated. Season ticket holders would've been devastated.

Instead that team ended on the court with Wes tearing his Achilles. Yes we lost Aldridge for nothing after that.

Even knowing we lost LMA for nothing I'm glad Neil never made any trade people here are criticizing him for. That was the most legit Blazer team we had since the 2000 collapse, and better than any Dame team after, so it was worth giving it a chance to play out on the court.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
The Nets offered Crabbe the contract the Blazers matched, and there was the thought he had potential to improve to a legit 3+D option. Obviously that did not work well at all. But a GM will have mistakes such as this. On the flipside hopefully a GM has some big successes such as signing Wes Matthews to the MLE.

The Turner contract was horrible because he was an established veteran player without the potential to improve that Crabbe may have had.

Meyers was terrible because he didn't have the physical abilities to ever be more than a change of pace role player.

That Neil couldn't recognize those and hamstrung the franchise for 4 years could rightly lead to firing him.
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The fact is that Neil is now the 5th longest tenured GM in the league. His teams have never been a one or two seed in the West. His teams have never won a conference finals game. He's done nothing to keep this competitive of a job for this long. He's been mediocre with a hands on owner and mediocre with a hands off owner. This season should be make or break for him but I don't even know if it will be because there should have been so many breaking points along the way that the guy might not be able to get himself fired.
 
blazerkor said:
The fact is that Neil is now the 5th longest tenured GM in the league. His teams have never been a one or two seed in the West. His teams have never won a conference finals game. He's done nothing to keep this competitive of a job for this long. He's been mediocre with a hands on owner and mediocre with a hands off owner. This season should be make or break for him but I don't even know if it will be because there should have been so many breaking points along the way that the guy might not be able to get himself fired.
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Lets say you are right, who leads the search to hire Neil's replacement?

I'm not sure I want Jody Allen deciding what NBA GM to hire.

Would I prefer Neil just keeps his job and there is a new owner hopefully in a few years? Maybe.

If the team fails and needs to trade Dame, do I want Neil overseeing that? Probably not.

There are no good options.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
The Nets offered Crabbe the contract the Blazers matched, and there was the thought he had potential to improve to a legit 3+D option. Obviously that did not work well at all. But a GM will have mistakes such as this. On the flipside hopefully a GM has some big successes such as signing Wes Matthews to the MLE.
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in no universe was it a good decision to give Allen Crabbe 75M dollars. Olshey was lucky there was one GM even dumber than him so he was able to trade Crabbe to the same idiot that offered the contract

Matthews was one of KP's successes. To a much lesser extent, Mo Williams, Aminu, and Ed Davis were Olshey's biggest free agent successes....but that comes with a giant red flashing asterisk because if Olshey had his way, the Blazers would have given max contracts to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe, and Chandler Parsons. Olshey had an extensive track record of cap-space idiocy before that 2016 spending debacle. 2016 wasn't from out of the blue or a surprise....bonehead is as bonehead does
 
sheed30 said:
Wait wait, wasn’t Stotts gonna get canned after the Pelicans series and it was Dame who went to bat to keep him and supported him and wanted to run it back?

and the following season we went to the Western Conference finals so Stotts job was safe after that and then the covid season after that where we have tons of injuries.

I’m just saying, you guys like to put all the fault on Neil and I don’t think that should be the case here.
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I don't know if Stotts was going to get canned after the Pels series, but ultimately it was Olshey/PA's choice not to, correct?

If you've read my posts, you know I do not think a lack of a coaching change is what was causing us to not be contenders, so I actually do not blame Olshey for waiting 9 years to fire him. What doesn't make logical sense to me is how someone could say Stotts is the big problem, but Olshey was doing a great job at the same time, when he kept said coach for 9 years, and it's his job to retain/fire the coach.
 
Tince said:
I don't know if Stotts was going to get canned after the Pels series, but ultimately it was Olshey/PA's choice not to, correct?

If you've read my posts, you know I do not think a lack of a coaching change is what was causing us to not be contenders, so I actually do not blame Olshey for waiting 9 years to fire him. What doesn't make logical sense to me is how someone could say Stotts is the big problem, but Olshey was doing a great job at the same time, when he kept said coach for 9 years, and it's his job to retain/fire the coach.
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I don't hear many people saying Olshey was doing a "great" job.

Hypothetically, someone could think Olshey made a mistake with keeping Stotts too long, but did good adding players to the roster. The GM is in charge of 15 players and 1 coach. I'd be fine with a GM who was awesome at getting talented players and while poor at hiring coaches. They usually only hire 1-3 coaches in their tenure.
 
Tince said:
You're correct that I heard this after the deadline. However, the odds that LMA made the choice, told my guy, and my guy called me right away to tell me (he didn't) is basically zero. By the time it got to me, that info certainly had been out there for a while. It's hard for me to think Olshey had no clue about this.

To your point, maybe Olshey thought adding Affalo to a good team was going to be enough to make us an elite contender and it would convince LMA to stay. Kinda sounds exactly like his strategy with Dame right now doesn't it?
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I honestly thought Paul could have insisted Neil roll the dice on LMA having convinced himself the guy would want to stay..pure speculation on my part but I seem to remember Paul and Neil were together all through those negotiations when it looked bleak for him to come back.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
I don't hear many people saying Olshey was doing a "great" job.

Hypothetically, someone could think Olshey made a mistake with keeping Stotts too long, but did good adding players to the roster. The GM is in charge of 15 players and 1 coach. I'd be fine with a GM who was awesome at getting talented players and while poor at hiring coaches. They usually only hire 1-3 coaches in their tenure.
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Your point is well made and ff your stance is that the players are far more important than the coach, then we're talking about a different scenario. My scenario is for the people who think the coaching is VERY important and gloss over the fact that Olshey is in charge of retaining the coach for 9 years they think was awful and critically holding a contending roster back.

I, like you, would be fine with a GM who could put together a roster of contending talent, but didn't have more than an average eye for coaching talent. I think that scenario would still lead to a contender. Unfortunately, I do not believe has put together a contending roster in 9 years and frankly, has done a poor job in obtaining top end talent, as I don't give him much credit for the Dame pick.
 
riverman said:
I honestly thought Paul could have insisted Neil roll the dice on LMA having convinced himself the guy would want to stay..pure speculation on my part but I seem to remember Paul and Neil were together all through those negotiations when it looked bleak for him to come back.
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You very well could be right. None of us know what happens behind the scenes and we know PA was more than a check writer when it came to owning this team.

We all speculate about what is done behind the scenes in terms of authority, practice, etc and evaluate on results. If our speculation about what it happening behind the scenes is wrong, it could cause us to inaccurate associate praise/blame for the results we see.
 
riverman said:
I honestly thought Paul could have insisted Neil roll the dice on LMA having convinced himself the guy would want to stay..pure speculation on my part but I seem to remember Paul and Neil were together all through those negotiations when it looked bleak for him to come back.
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They were together and we know when Paul was hands on, he was hands on, especially with team stars and negotiations.
 
blazerkor said:
https://clutchpoints.com/the-trail-blazers-neil-olshey-problem-is-only-growing-bigger/

Neil really is an asshole. The way he talks down to the media and by extension the fans and then all of the shit in this article. The guy really is a self serving slime ball. If you can't do something for him your just dead to him. Really classless.
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He is so slimey you could pin him between 2 sheet of extra-coarse sandpaper and he could slip right out without leaving any hide behind! I would love to hear what other GMs really think of him.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
He is so slimey you could pin him between 2 sheet of extra-coarse sandpaper and he could slip right out without leaving any hide behind! I would love to hear what other GMs really think of him.
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To be clear i am not pro Olshey in any way really. Lots of things he has done could have been better.

But lets get this straight. That article points to Melo wanting to come back one more year and making another run with Dame and CJ.
I would have laughed in his face and let the phone ring off the hook too!
Pretty much everyone on this board would have.

Wes was offered way too much money and letting him walk right then was the right move. He felt disrespected because he didn't get that offer from Portland. Again this board would have blown up if Olshey offered Mathews that money.

Watch the video. Danny Ainge grew up here and played here and agreed with Olshey. Exactly how is that damning?

Is Olshey a snake? Maybe so? I just don't see how letting Melo walk is being turned into a bad thing. Say it's the way it happened all you want but in the end bringing Melo here was good for Melo. Letting him go will be good for Melo and better for Portland. End of story.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
To be clear i am not pro Olshey in any way really. Lots of things he has done could have been better.

But lets get this straight. That article points to Melo wanting to come back one more year and making another run with Dame and CJ.
I would have laughed in his face and let the phone ring off the hook too!
Pretty much everyone on this board would have.

Wes was offered way too much money and letting him walk right then was the right move. He felt disrespected because he didn't get that offer from Portland. Again this board would have blown up if Olshey offered Mathews that money.

Watch the video. Danny Ainge grew up here and played here and agreed with Olshey. Exactly how is that damning?

Is Olshey a snake? Maybe so? I just don't see how letting Melo walk is being turned into a bad thing. Say it's the way it happened all you want but in the end bringing Melo here was good for Melo. Letting him go will be good for Melo and better for Portland. End of story.
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I would not have laughed in his face and I didn't even like Melo being on the team last season. That being said the issue isn't letting him walk it's not returning his call. When ending a business relationship I always do it personally, especially when there weren't hard feelings. So of course I would have taken Melo's call and told him we were going in another way. Wes is the same thing, we're not matching the offer but we can tell him that and Olshey opted to let him twist. That shit stinks of an attitude that if Olshey can't get something out of someone that they're then not worth his time, despite having built a business relationship with him. I hate it that the top representative of our team has those values.

Ainge only half jokingly said he was offended and I think all of us were at least half offended by those remarks by Olshey... and those speak to the bigger problem pointed out in that article. If Olshey's slimy ass doesn't believe in this city as a destination worth going to, then where does that leave us as a team and him as a recruiter for the team. He's either given up or was never all in on trying to recruit high level players who are in or before their prime, to play here.

It's all problematic from my point of view... I don't know why you'd want to give him a pass.

Edit: And he did the same thing to Ed Davis too... not that he didn't re-sign Ed but he left Ed hanging and didn't return his calls. It's Olshey's shitty M.O.
 
blazerkor said:
I would not have laughed in his face and I didn't even like Melo being on the team last season. That being said the issue isn't letting him walk it's not returning his call. When ending a business relationship I always do it personally, especially when there weren't hard feelings. So of course I would have taken Melo's call and told him we were going in another way. Wes is the same thing, we're not matching the offer but we can tell him that and Olshey opted to let him twist. That shit stinks of an attitude that if Olshey can't get something out of someone that they're then not worth his time, despite having built a business relationship with him. I hate it that the top representative of our team has those values.

Ainge only half jokingly said he was offended and I think all of us were at least half offended by those remarks by Olshey... and those speak to the bigger problem pointed out in that article. If Olshey's slimy ass doesn't believe in this city as a destination worth going to, then where does that leave us as a team and him as a recruiter for the team. He's either given up or was never all in on trying to recruit high level players who are in or before their prime, to play here.

It's all problematic from my point of view... I don't know why you'd want to give him a pass.

Edit: And he did the same thing to Ed Davis too... not that he didn't re-sign Ed but he left Ed hanging and didn't return his calls. It's Olshey's shitty M.O.
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I hire and fire quite a bit. So i guess my take on this is different.
Everyone knew that relationship was over. Melo making it a talking point is just Melo being Melo.
I have never seen Ainge knocking on any doors to come back here. Only people who don't like the truth seem to be offended by this.
Really? You gonna go Ed Davis on this? He told him to take the deal.

Again i ain't trying to say you are wrong and i certainly am not supporting Neil Olshey. But business is business. When they see each other next time they will shake hands and smile and all will be well.
Melo needs to quit wearing his feelings about his career on his sleeve is the way i see it.
 
Just to be clear, my harsh opinion of Olshey isn't based on any one incident. Over the course of the last 9 years there has been a string of incidents that made him look like a sleazy used car salesman. Each individual event was relatively minor - but over time it adds up.
 
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