Fire Stotts Eventually (3 Viewers)

[kjironman1]

You guys need to take this conversation over to the "Greatest Coach Ever" thread.
They only got like 2 pages over there. It's a team game. Should be a team forum?

 

[riverman]

The Wolves are bottom five in the league in defense....and Thibs is a great defensive coach...hmmm?

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

To add to worst in assists, taking charges and fast break points, "the Portland Trail Blazers and Toronto Raptors were the two worst teams in field goal percentages when winning by one possession with under two minutes to play." Since we seem to usually resort to one on one basketball at closing time, this would seem to indicate that team ball would work better; our one on one guys are just not good enough to get it done.
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[julius]

To add to worst in assists, taking charges and fast break points, "the Portland Trail Blazers and Toronto Raptors were the two worst teams in field goal percentages when winning by one possession with under two minutes to play." Since we seem to usually resort to one on one basketball at closing time, this would seem to indicate that team ball would work better; our one on one guys are just not good enough to get it done.
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It didn't help that outside of Damian and CJ, no one on the team was even remotely clutch or a dependable outside shooter or could create their own shots.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I know there is probably some statistical reason for it and some math guy some where decided it’s the best way to do it, but I hate the end of game 1 high 4 low offense. Where a ball handler either jacks up a contested 3 or dribbles into some sort of contested shot. Even when they bring up a big to set a pick the position of your players is so easy to guard. It seems like the end of a game is the time when you want the best shot possible to win or tie. In the NBA though it’s the time when you give your best player the ball and let him do his thing, it’s literally the laziest play on offense for 3 or 4 of your players.
To me when it matters most (clutch situations at the end of a game) is the time when you want to work for the absolute best shot possible, run plays with multiple reads and options, execute as good as you can to get the best shot you can.

It’s not just Stotts or the Blazers though basically everyone does it. Even if you want say Dame or CJ taking the shot, wouldn’t it be better to run a normal set with options if a guy gets loose from the defense they can get an open opportunity to score.

 

[BBert]

It didn't help that outside of Damian and CJ, no one on the team was even remotely clutch or a dependable outside shooter or could create their own shots.

This. The Blazers have added dead-eye outside shooters. That should help. If it doesn't, it will be on Stotts.

 

[blue9]

This. The Blazers have added dead-eye outside shooters. That should help. If it doesn't, it will be on Stotts.

We've upgraded one skill set, rather than diversifying our set of skills. While I do think upgrading a single skill will help the team, I think diversifying would help the team more.
We are doubling down on "live by the three, die by the three". A decent strategy to win games; an awful strategy to be a good team.

 

[BonesJones]

I know there is probably some statistical reason for it and some math guy some where decided it’s the best way to do it, but I hate the end of game 1 high 4 low offense. Where a ball handler either jacks up a contested 3 or dribbles into some sort of contested shot. Even when they bring up a big to set a pick the position of your players is so easy to guard. It seems like the end of a game is the time when you want the best shot possible to win or tie. In the NBA though it’s the time when you give your best player the ball and let him do his thing, it’s literally the laziest play on offense for 3 or 4 of your players.
To me when it matters most (clutch situations at the end of a game) is the time when you want to work for the absolute best shot possible, run plays with multiple reads and options, execute as good as you can to get the best shot you can.

It’s not just Stotts or the Blazers though basically everyone does it. Even if you want say Dame or CJ taking the shot, wouldn’t it be better to run a normal set with options if a guy gets loose from the defense they can get an open opportunity to score.

Usually its because it allows you to control when the shot is taken and control the clock, and there's no risk of turnover.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Usually its because it allows you to control when the shot is taken and control the clock, and there's no risk of turnover.

Yeah I get that, but there’s a very high chance of taking a poor, highly contested shot. Could still run time out by passing, and running a play. Not trying to argue with you about it, I just don’t like it.

 

[Hoopguru]

Yeah I get that, but there’s a very high chance of taking a poor, highly contested shot. Could still run time out by passing, and running a play. Not trying to argue with you about it, I just don’t like it.

I don't like it either.
Standing a near half court running the clock down then throwing up a 25' shot, is sacrilegious, in my book.

 

[BonesJones]

Yeah I get that, but there’s a very high chance of taking a poor, highly contested shot. Could still run time out by passing, and running a play. Not trying to argue with you about it, I just don’t like it.

I just see that argument made all the time, and I dont think people realize how hard the timing is to run a play and get a good shot off at the buzzer. The defense is in all out denial the last couple seconds if the person with the ball isn't a threat. Any pass is a chance for a turnover the other way.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I just see that argument made all the time, and I dont think people realize how hard the timing is to run a play and get a good shot off at the buzzer. The defense is in all out denial the last couple seconds if the person with the ball isn't a threat. Any pass is a chance for a turnover the other way.

But honesty the whole idea of you have to get the very last shot of a quarter is kind of crazy. So you run a good play and get a good shot with 1 second left, let them take the low percentage shot. I kind of get it at the end of a game, but most of the team, I’d rather be the team taking and getting good looks then the time heaving contested, or very low percentage shots. Yeah Dame can make that .9 second shot, but I’d rather take my chances on a team / player making that type of shot then play bad offense just so I can say I got the last attempt, at least in most situations. I know that doesn’t always apply.

 

[BonesJones]

But honesty the whole idea of you have to get the very last shot of a quarter is kind of crazy. So you run a good play and get a good shot with 1 second left, let them take the low percentage shot. I kind of get it at the end of a game, but most of the team, I’d rather be the team taking and getting good looks then the time heaving contested, or very low percentage shots. Yeah Dame can make that .9 second shot, but I’d rather take my chances on a team / player making that type of shot then play bad offense just so I can say I got the last attempt, at least in most situations. I know that doesn’t always apply.

It's hard to get a good shot out of a play in a specific 2 second window. I think you'd have guys not getting shots off in time and guys like Aminu having the ball with the last second option being guarded and him having to shoot some wild step back. There's a reason why they let Dame iso.

 

[dviss1]

I don't like it either.
Standing a near half court running the clock down then throwing up a 25' shot, is sacrilegious, in my book.

I'm fine with it:

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm fine with it:

Everyone loves Dames ability to hit clutch shots. I would and have watched them all night because the dudes got a gift!

We have to admit though that there are a lot of times it doesn’t work. No I don’t want Aminu trying a step back anything.
So yeah I’m always happy when it goes in, but overall I would just be happier with motion and some ball movement at the end of the game.
Gotta remember for all the clutch moments Jordan had, he made some clutch passes too. Of course he was passing to guys like Steve Kerr, not Aminu lol - but my point is I just think running plays to get good shots would have a better overall chance to win.

Who knows it’s not going to change anytime soon lol.

 

[dviss1]

Everyone loves Dames ability to hit clutch shots. I would and have watched them all night because the dudes got a gift!

We have to admit though that there are a lot of times it doesn’t work. No I don’t want Aminu trying a step back anything.
So yeah I’m always happy when it goes in, but overall I would just be happier with motion and some ball movement at the end of the game.
Gotta remember for all the clutch moments Jordan had, he made some clutch passes too. Of course he was passing to guys like Steve Kerr, not Aminu lol - but my point is I just think running plays to get good shots would have a better overall chance to win.

Who knows it’s not going to change anytime soon lol.

You give the ball to your best player in the clutch and you tell him to make a play. It's how it's always been.

 

[dviss1]

Jordan had, he made some clutch passes too. Of course he was passing to guys like Steve Kerr,

He made the right play after drawing the defense.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm fine with it:

Its great when it goes and Ive noticed teams are ready for it now so they press or double the one who's to take the shot and many times a wide open high percentage bucket is missed.
I know its the current flavor of the league to let your star shake and bake and play hero ball to live and die by.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You give the ball to your best player in the clutch and you tell him to make a play. It's how it's always been.

I know it’s not going anywhere, but even on the Jordan shot there was at least an open man on the wing.

The 1-4 gives your best best player almost no flexibility of things don’t go well.

Of course I want my clutch shots taken by Dame or CJ if they get a look they like.

The media used to dog on LBJ for making the right basketball plays to get guys open shots, but to me he almost always made the right play, because he created good shots. I know Dame is special, at making those shots, but he’s missed a lot too, and there have been times where a defender has made him take a shot he didn’t ‘want’ to take, but there was literally no one else open because they were all standing around watching, I really don’t like it.

I realize me not liking it doesn’t mean much, but I am of the opinion we’d get more great clutch moments if we put our players in better situations to have good looks at the basket.

 

[dviss1]

Lol at calling last shots hero ball. They may be heroic but it's not "hero ball".

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Lol at calling last shots hero ball. They may be heroic but it's not "hero ball".

I don't remember doing that... I define hero ball more or less by when one guy decides he's going to try to win the game by himself, and sometimes our guards do that. In fact some games it works, I remember a phoenix game last season that Dame pretty much took over because the rest of the team stunk and he pulled it out.
I don't necessarily think think the end of game / quarter situation or play calling is hero - ball and if I said that I mis-spoke (typed? heh), but it 'can' be I guess. I just think it's kind of ugly offense, and yeah it produces some amazing moments but when they miss or fail to get a good shot off it is pretty not-amazing.

You seem to be on the side of liking it, or thinking it's the right way to play and that's fine it's your opinion, I respect it, I just see it differently.

 

[dviss1]

I don't remember doing that... I define hero ball more or less by when one guy decides he's going to try to win the game by himself, and sometimes our guards do that. In fact some games it works, I remember a phoenix game last season that Dame pretty much took over because the rest of the team stunk and he pulled it out.
I don't necessarily think think the end of game / quarter situation or play calling is hero - ball and if I said that I mis-spoke (typed? heh), but it 'can' be I guess. I just think it's kind of ugly offense, and yeah it produces some amazing moments but when they miss or fail to get a good shot off it is pretty not-amazing.

You seem to be on the side of liking it, or thinking it's the right way to play and that's fine it's your opinion, I respect it, I just see it differently.

I should've quoted @Hoopguru.

 

[Reep]

To me it depends on the situation. If I'm down by one, then I might like to have the ball in Dame's hands, try and run a play for a layup or dunk, but if that doesn't easily materialize then let Dame take what he can get. If I'm down by three, or two and we need to finish the game, then I want Dame to hero it up. Give him as much help (screens, etc.) as is fitting depending on who the opponent and defender are, but Dame takes the shot.

 

[tester551]

To me it depends on the situation. If I'm down by one, then I might like to have the ball in Dame's hands, try and run a play for a layup or dunk, but if that doesn't easily materialize then let Dame take what he can get. If I'm down by three, or two and we need to finish the game, then I want Dame to hero it up. Give him as much help (screens, etc.) as is fitting depending on who the opponent and defender are, but Dame takes the shot.

I think that is @TorturedBlazerFan issue. Dame (or CJ) play 1v1 while the other players stand around. There really isn't a "play" being run.

 

[Reep]

I think that is @TorturedBlazerFan issue. Dame (or CJ) play 1v1 while the other players stand around. There really isn't a "play" being run.

I think the question is "is it better to have Dame, a screen and two defenders; or to have Dame in isolation with one defender?" I would still say it depends on the situation. Dame is pretty good at freeing himself up for the long three if he has time. If time is limited then more likely he will need to be on the move using screens (right Houston?).

My only gripe is if you are tied or only down by one, then I would much rather see a creative play run than see Dame or CJ in isolation.

 

[Propagandist]

I'm a bit surprised people are complaining about this. We incredibly have TWO(!!!!!!!!!!) players who can get a good shot at the end of games and have had success doing it. AND they want to take those shots. I'd guess the vast majority of players in the league prefer (although I'd doubt they admit it) not to have to face that pressure, that or can't handle it.

What bothers me is late game DEFENSIVE execution. Yikes.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm a bit surprised people are complaining about this. We incredibly have TWO(!!!!!!!!!!) players who can get a good shot at the end of games and have had success doing it. AND they want to take those shots. I'd guess the vast majority of players in the league prefer (although I'd doubt they admit it) not to have to face that pressure, that or can't handle it.

What bothers me is late game DEFENSIVE execution. Yikes.

A few time last year the opposing team with the ball and the last shot and the offensive player stands and dribbles time off while we hold back and wait for his move, rather than jump out at him and try and disrupt the last play or shot.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I'm a bit surprised people are complaining about this. We incredibly have TWO(!!!!!!!!!!) players who can get a good shot at the end of games and have had success doing it.

If they have so much success why are they at the bottom "in field goal percentages when winning by one possession with under two minutes to play"? Do they just make the shots when we are losing in the last two minutes?

 

[BonesJones]

If they have so much success why are they at the bottom "in field goal percentages when winning by one possession with under two minutes to play"? Do they just make the shots when we are losing in the last two minutes?

Small sample size.

 

[jlprk]

The sample size is big enough to say they're good, but too small to say they're bad.