Florida is one messed up place

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WuShock
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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - A state lawmaker is proposing a bill to drug test unemployed Floridians collecting unemployment benefits.

"Let's make sure it's going to people who truly are ready, able, and willing to work. People who can't pass a random drug test really probably shouldn't be collecting our unemployment money," said bill sponsor Senator Mike Bennett, a Republican from Sarasota.

The proposal says anyone who failed their drug test couldn't get unemployment benefits for one year.

The bill still has to go to legislative committee. The cost of each drug test would come out of individual benefits.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/030709_drug_testing_for_the_unemployed

Let's not just take away your constitutional rights but lets make you pay for taking away or constitutional rights, it's like you're having a hard time as it or anything.
 
Why is this a bad idea? Most jobs have drug tests, or at least have the right to test you. Why shouldn't someone who receiving money from my paycheck be subject to the same rules. I'm not sure if BeerBoy was serious or not but I would test welfare folks also.

What constitutional right are you talking about? I don't see any problem, maybe right to privacy but no one is requiring them collect benefits.
 
I think its a fine rule. If you're sitting home all day just smoking weed, you shouldn't get paid for it. fuck that mang.
 
I don't see a problem with it. if it goes through, great. If not? Decent try.
 
I usually don't post in these political thigns, but I actually totally agree with that idea.
 
You folks who support this obviously have no idea what a drug test cost. Lets put it this way. It cost more than the unemployment would cost them. Still a good idea?
 
How much would unemployment cost? That's a few hundred bucks a week per person. Drug tests are a few hundred bucks max, right? A search online kind of confirms that.
 
This is from the ACLU:

http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/testing/34822res20080408.html

The average cost of a drug test is about $42 per person tested,[8] not including the costs of hiring personnel to administer the tests, to ensure confidentiality of results and to run confirmatory tests to guard against false positives resulting from passive drug exposure, cross-identification with legal, prescription drugs such as codeine and legal substances such as poppy seeds.
 
How much would unemployment cost? That's a few hundred bucks a week per person. Drug tests are a few hundred bucks max, right? A search online kind of confirms that.

What are you only going to test them once? If your going to drug test people, you have to keep it going over the long haul. Some drugs can be out of your system in hours.

Secondly, you seem to forget that a vast majority of folks would pass the drug test. Then you would have the cost of the drug test, plus their unemployment, thus increasing the costs.
 
What are you only going to test them once? If your going to drug test people, you have to keep it going over the long haul. Some drugs can be out of your system in hours.

Secondly, you seem to forget that a vast majority of folks would pass the drug test. Then you would have the cost of the drug test, plus their unemployment, thus increasing the costs.

do you know what a random drug test is? random, meaning its checking sporadically. it discourages drug use by unemployed people sitting on their asses doing nothing. lots of unemployment cheats out there, the more people we can kick off these programs the better IMO.
 
1st - The 4th amendment outlaws forbids random government drug testing because it's an unreasonable search. In order for the government to test a person for drugs the have to a valid reason to suspect you of using them. It's no different then searching your home or car.

2nd - You don't "pay" for unemployment. Unemployment is paid for the unemployment insurance that comes out of your pay check, which is why only people who are layed off or fired can get it.
 
1st - The 4th amendment outlaws forbids random government drug testing because it's an unreasonable search. In order for the government to test a person for drugs the have to a valid reason to suspect you of using them. It's no different then searching your home or car.

2nd - You don't "pay" for unemployment. Unemployment is paid for the unemployment insurance that comes out of your pay check, which is why only people who are layed off or fired can get it.

Its not unreasonable because its a condition to receive an optional benefit.

And 2nd, I'm employed so I am paying indirectly for unemployment benefits. We've had people who are still claiming unemployment for quite some time, some fuckers who deserved to get fired and we have to pay some money to them every month? fuck that, the less net income my company has, that's a direct hit on my own paycheck.

The more people that claim unemployment, the higher the rates get, which affect my salary.
 
Even I, an avid herb smoker, have no problem with this. I don't want my tax money spent on someone's sack.
 
Its not unreasonable because its a condition to receive an optional benefit.

"Reasonable" is not defined as "what Eric thinks is fair." "Reasonable" here means that the government has to have a legitimate reason to believe that the person being tested has drugs in his/her system. It has nothing to do with whether it is forced or part of a program. The US postal system is an optional government service, but they can't legally search your car when you want to send a letter.
 
Its not unreasonable because its a condition to receive an optional benefit.

And 2nd, I'm employed so I am paying indirectly for unemployment benefits. We've had people who are still claiming unemployment for quite some time, some fuckers who deserved to get fired and we have to pay some money to them every month? fuck that, the less net income my company has, that's a direct hit on my own paycheck.

The more people that claim unemployment, the higher the rates get, which affect my salary.

Sucks for you, but that doesn't change the fact that it is unreasonable search because the goverment cannot search someone for something illegel without a valid reason, and I don't mean valid like it effects or whatever but valid like a person acting as though they are on drugs.
 
"Reasonable" is not defined as "what Eric thinks is fair." "Reasonable" here means that the government has to have a legitimate reason to believe that the person being tested has drugs in his/her system. It has nothing to do with whether it is forced or part of a program. The US postal system is an optional government service, but they can't legally search your car when you want to send a letter.

no they don't. its completely random for a kind of assitance program. should they also NOT check to make sure that people on unemployment are actually applying for jobs! Privacy!
 
The US postal system is an optional government service, but they can't legally search your car when you want to send a letter.

But they can randomly test their employees, right? What's the difference? If you don't want to take the test you don't have to, you just won't get the benefits.

I smoke weed and know that if I'm looking for a job, I need to stop to stay motivated, interview well, and possibly have to take a test upon getting hired. If you're collected unemployment, shouldn't these reasons apply to you. If you're not really looking for a job, you shouldn't get paid.
 
do you know what a random drug test is? random, meaning its checking sporadically. it discourages drug use by unemployed people sitting on their asses doing nothing. lots of unemployment cheats out there, the more people we can kick off these programs the better IMO.

You know what else it means? It means it is a program that has to be put in place and kept up. It means that besides the costs of the drug test, you have the administrative costs of the people and infrastructure that track the program. It also means that people over the long haul get tested more than once. When you consider that most of the people will test negative, you have increased your cost with them for absolutely no reason at all. Now you are paying for both their unemployment, and their drug test, thus increasing cost and making the program more expensive. If you can't get that, maybe you ought to go back to second grade, and learn to add again.

Secondly, you can't random test people on unemployment. These people are not employees of companies, they are citizens. Citizens must all be treated equally under the law, which means if one person is tested, they all have to be tested.

Lastly, you make the assumption that people on drugs are not productive. That is not true. There are plenty of people who take drugs who have good jobs, and when they don't have a job, they look for work just like everybody else. Just because they do substances in their spare time does not make them any less responsible.
 
You know what else it means? It means it is a program that has to be put in place and kept up. It means that besides the costs of the drug test, you have the administrative costs of the people and infrastructure that track the program. It also means that people over the long haul get tested more than once. When you consider that most of the people will test negative, you have increased your cost with them for absolutely no reason at all. Now you are paying for both their unemployment, and their drug test, thus increasing cost and making the program more expensive. If you can't get that, maybe you ought to go back to second grade, and learn to add again.

Secondly, you can't random test people on unemployment. These people are not employees of companies, they are citizens. Citizens must all be treated equally under the law, which means if one person is tested, they all have to be tested.

Lastly, you make the assumption that people on drugs are not productive. That is not true. There are plenty of people who take drugs who have good jobs, and when they don't have a job, they look for work just like everybody else. Just because they do substances in their spare time does not make them any less responsible.

Have any data to actually back your shit up or are you just pulling it out of your ass? I don't give a fuck about the $$$$, I don't want people on drugs to get unemployment benefits whatsoever so your rant on the financial aspects are useless. What are the costs of unemployment average per person, until you can come up with that number I suggest you shut the fuck up about the realized costs of it all. SO find it, how much does one person on unemployment collect. compare that to your number of how much drug testing costs. You're the big math wiz I assume, I failed out of 2nd grade.

Unemployment benefits are conditional. If you refuse a job, I believe you lose your benefits. They should be conditional on passing drug tests.

Yes, people on drugs can be productive. I still think they should not be paying for their drugs with their unemployment benefits.
 
But they can randomly test their employees, right? What's the difference?

I don't know how to answer that, since it seems like a complete non sequitur. The government can also go to war with other nations...what's the difference?

The government can't require drug tests of private citizens, either randomly or as part of a government program/benefits. The government can, I believe, require drug tests of government workers. These are two unrelated things.
 
Have any data to actually back your shit up or are you just pulling it out of your ass? I don't give a fuck about the $$$$, I don't want people on drugs to get unemployment benefits whatsoever so your rant on the financial aspects are useless. What are the costs of unemployment average per person, until you can come up with that number I suggest you shut the fuck up about the realized costs of it all. SO find it, how much does one person on unemployment collect. compare that to your number of how much drug testing costs. You're the big math wiz I assume, I failed out of 2nd grade.

Unemployment benefits are conditional. If you refuse a job, I believe you lose your benefits. They should be conditional on passing drug tests.

Yes, people on drugs can be productive. I still think they should not be paying for their drugs with their unemployment benefits.



Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can or cannot put in my body? People pay into their own unemployment and have every right as you to recoup the benefits when they lose a job. You don't want them spending it on drugs, so what if they want to spend it on prostitution? Are you going to support undercover agents tracking each and every citizen to see who they are sleeping with? Oh, that's not feasible? But it's the same fucking moral difference. What about people who use their unemployment to pay speeding tickets? Or to buy ivory trinkets? Or blood diamonds?

Where does your moral high ground end?
 
Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can or cannot put in my body? People pay into their own unemployment and have every right as you to recoup the benefits when they lose a job. You don't want them spending it on drugs, so what if they want to spend it on prostitution? Are you going to support undercover agents tracking each and every citizen to see who they are sleeping with? Oh, that's not feasible? But it's the same fucking moral difference. What about people who use their unemployment to pay speeding tickets? Or to buy ivory trinkets? Or blood diamonds?

Where does your moral high ground end?

Spend it on hookers, i don't care.

Drug testing should be mandatory for all public benefits IMO. From welfare to unemployment. I have visions of unemployed stoners laughing their asses off about getting free money.
 
This proposal has damn near everything wrong with it.

Cost has been mentioned. Also, any positive must be confirmed by even more expensive GC/MS - unless you figure that if someone's poppy seed bagel gives a false positive for opiates they should just be SOL.

Since prescription drugs can cross-react, the state would have to maintain a database of every person's prescription medication. You want that?

It singles out working people for conditions that do not apply to the wealthy. We spent far more in bank bailouts than all unemployment compensation, but the bankers who used our money to give themselves billions of dollars in bonuses, go on cushy golf trips and organize anti-union seminars are not drug tested. And they are the ones who failed. But some working stiff who loses his/her job through no fault of his/her own should be?

If a person who is unemployed has a beer while watching the game, would you jump to the conclusion he/she was spending all his/her time sitting around getting bombed? Probably not. But a person smokes one joint and we hear he/she is spending all the time sitting around getting high.

Even if you think drug use is so heinous a person should be liable to any and all punishment, including starving to death, what about family member? Should the kids also starve because a parent smoked a joint?

It is part of the "war on drugs" that has resulted in ludicrously disproportionate punishment for recreational drug use, with mandatory sentences on first offenders of 15, 20, 25 years, and convictions based solely on the word of an accusor, often a drug dealer. It is now federal regulation that a person convicted of any drug offense, even simple possession, cannot get food stamps, federally subsidized housing, or student financial aid - ever. Ever. Not in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. Ever. But a person convicted of murder, rape, armed robbery, once he/she gets out of prison, is eligible for all these benefits.

And Florida is not barring convicted murderers who are laid off from getting unemployment. Only someone who smokes weed! And that person need not even be convicted of a crime.

It does not address real conditions that lead to drug abuse. Just punishment for even the most casual recreational user.

Enough reasons or you want more?
 
The reasons you provide are more excuses than anything.

I aim to kick off people on public assistance and unemployment "benefits" as possible, so I support whatever reasons it takes to do so. Drugs seems sufficient enough, I don't feel they should get money from the government while they are on drugs (although I do advocate legalization of all drugs without any restriction).
 
The reasons you provide are more excuses than anything.

I aim to kick off people on public assistance and unemployment "benefits" as possible, so I support whatever reasons it takes to do so. Drugs seems sufficient enough, I don't feel they should get money from the government while they are on drugs (although I do advocate legalization of all drugs without any restriction).

Excuses? You mean, like it's OK to be a murderer but not smoke pot? Or that a person is considered guilty until proven innocent?

Hmm. Ever been laid off. If you were, would you turn down unemployment? And why put it in quotes? It's not really benefits? You do realize that while working we all pay into it? That's why they call it unemployment insurance, right?
 
You folks who support this obviously have no idea what a drug test cost. Lets put it this way. It cost more than the unemployment would cost them. Still a good idea?

I don't believe you.

My wife makes the minimum of unemployment right now. That's $128 a week here in Washington.

The cost of a drug test kit (6-panel) is http://www.drugtestyourteen.com/order_products_here $15.00. Pay someone $10 an hour to administer (woohoo, created jobs!!) and an average sample time of about 5 minutes, you can get about 100 people per administrator per day for 1580. Their minimum unemployment checks come out to $12800.

Again, if it passes, cool. If not, fine. The military does "random" drug sweeps of the entire reserve every drill weekend of between 25-75% of the force, and sometimes does a complete unit sweep. Sure, we're volunteers, so we can get tested anytime they want. Guess what? Getting unemployment is voluntary, too.
 
Excuses? You mean, like it's OK to be a murderer but not smoke pot? Or that a person is considered guilty until proven innocent?

Hmm. Ever been laid off. If you were, would you turn down unemployment? And why put it in quotes? It's not really benefits? You do realize that while working we all pay into it? That's why they call it unemployment insurance, right?

yes, and the less people on it, the lower the costs are.

shit, might be pretty clutch to be unemployed, free money, smoke weed and fuck around at home in bed all day. sign me up!
 
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