OT Florida School Shooting

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SlyPokerDog said:
He's not crazy, he's a terrorist.

Nikolas Cruz Trained With White Supremacists, Group Claims

Nikolas Cruz, the man accused of killing 17 people in a Florida high school, was a member of a “white separatist paramilitary proto-fascist organization,” the group told The Daily Beast.

Cruz, 19, is accused of opening fire inside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Prior to the shooting, he trained with the Republic of Florida, the group’s captain Jordan Jereb said. The RoF seeks to create a “white ethnostate” in Florida, according to its website, a view that Cruz supposedly shared.

“I don’t know precisely what he believes,” Jereb said. “I know he knew full well he was joining a white separatist paramilitary proto-fascist organization.”

The Anti-Defamation League first reported the link to RoF.

Cruz “seemed like just a normal, disenfranchised, young white man,” Jereb said.

While no motive has been described by police, Jereb speculated that Cruz may have allegedly committed the massacre out of hatred for Jews or women.


“There’s a very real sense of feminism being a cancer. That could’ve played into what he did, but we have female members of RoF,” Jereb said, adding that “we’re not a big fan of Jews. I think there were a lot of Jews at the school that might have been messing with him.”

Jereb said Cruz belonged to a RoF “cell” from Clearwater and drove up with members to Tallahassee to do paramilitary training. RoF was recently operating in Tallahassee and attempting to court new members, according to a local news report from last year. The group posts videos of training montages on the internet with members in fatigues brandishing weapons.

“I’m not trying to glorify it, but he was pretty efficient in what he did,” Jereb said. “He probably used that training to do what he did yesterday. Nobody I know told him to do that, he just freaked out.”

Cruz received at least one of his guns through the white supremacist group, according to Jereb.

“I think somebody bought him a Mosin–Nagant, but that’s bolt action. He had a semi-automatic in the school,” Jereb said.

Cruz exhibited right-wing politics in high school as well, former classmates told The Daily Beast. A former and a current student both said Cruz wore a “Make America Great Again” hat.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikol...-white-supremacist-group-leader-says?ref=home
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I see you are beating about the bush Sly, trying to connect the shooter to Trump.
But forget that for a moment. Are you saying that new restrictions against mental illness would not prevent this fellow getting a gun?

Or do you wish to include Trump supporters under the new restrictions?
 
calvin natt said:
and yeah...guns nowadays a bit different than the 1700's. I am perfectly OK if everyone wants to carry around a musket and jam gun powder down the barrel or whatever the F they did back then. Not fire off a hundred rounds in a minute.
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Projectile is still a projectile. Stop blaming the tool and blame who is weilding it. The looks of a gun does not give it psychic powers to posses people into shooting people. Killers are killers. The ones that use a gun are just cowards. They cant handle the mental it takes to get up and personal.
 
MarAzul said:
I see you are beating about the bush Sly, trying to connect the do to Trump.
But forget that for a moment. Are you saying that new restrictions against mental illness would not prevent this fellow getting a gun?

Or do you wish to include Trump supporters under the new restrictions?
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I'm not trying to tie this to Trump. What new restrictions have I called for? Just providing information as it becomes available. The only opinion that I've expressed so far about this is I don't think he's crazy.
 
Is he white or hispanic?

Another George Zimmerman situation?
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
Projectile is still a projectile. Stop blaming the tool and blame who is weilding it. The looks of a gun does not give it psychic powers to posses people into shooting people. Killers are killers. The ones that use a gun are just cowards. They cant handle the mental it takes to get up and personal.
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Ah. Was waiting for the “guns don’t kill people “ argument. Which of course is totally false. It’s why people have guns. The sole reason. Does America just have a mental issue and the rest of the world is sane? Why aren’t they shooting up schools like us? Do they all have armed guards standing in front of every classroom?[/QUOTE]
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I'm not trying to tie this to Trump. What new restrictions have I called for? Just providing information as it becomes available. The only opinion that I've expressed so far about this is I don't think he's crazy.
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He's batshit fucking nuts.
 
calvin natt said:
Ah. Was waiting for the “guns don’t kill people “ argument. Which of course is totally false. It’s why people have guns. The sole reason. Does America just have a mental issue and the rest of the world is sane? Why aren’t they shooting up schools like us? Do they all have armed guards standing in front of every classroom?
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I think most of the people that buy these guns buy them because they're cool. I get it why they think that. They're big boy toys for guys who haven't grown out of that stuff.

Most people that buy Ferraris or big 4wd trucks don't use them for what they were made for really.

A Ferrari on a track is like an AR 15 at a gun range. Use them like that in public and people can die.
 
calvin natt said:
When did I say ignore?
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>>> Right here.

calvin natt said:
By all means, we should do what they told us to do in 1791. Because nothing has changed in the world since then. I have an idea - if you want to live by rules created in 1791 (2nd Amendment), you live your entire life according to the standards in 1791. Have fun walking to work or getting the flu and enjoy your last post here on the worldwide web, because you know its 1791 and that's what matters.
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calvin natt said:
Ah. Was waiting for the “guns don’t kill people “ argument. Which of course is totally false. It’s why people have guns. The sole reason. Does America just have a mental issue and the rest of the world is sane? Why aren’t they shooting up schools like us? Do they all have armed guards standing in front of every classroom?
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[/QUOTE]
When guns start killing people without a human weilding them ill consider your arguement. Until then, your post is a fucking idiot.
 
When guns start killing people without a human weilding them ill consider your arguement. Until then, your post is a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]

Great answer. Took a while but knew sooner or later someone would lose it.
 
Imma just lay this right here and let the white folk discuss:

 
rasheedfan2005 said:
When guns start killing people without a human weilding them ill consider your arguement. Until then, your post is a fucking idiot.
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People WITH guns do. Mental folk. What you gonna do about them?

The mental guy just killed 57 people at a country concert because he was... Mental...

Again WTF are you gonna do? Send thoughts and prayers?? Well they don't accomplish SHIT.

We are 5% of the world's population yet we have 31% of the world's mass shootings.

Again... What do you conservatives wanna do about it???
 
MarAzul said:
I think you are in error. Real Americans do not ignore the Constitution.
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you don't get to decide who's a real American...and to disrespect real americans is very un-American.....understand all amendments to the constitution start with americans questioning interpretations and policies....like equality...etc.....right to vote....real americans are inclusive ...not dividing the population like some would like to
 
dviss1 said:
People WITH guns do. Mental folk. What you gonna do about them?

The mental guy just killed 57 people at a country concert because he was... Mental...

Again WTF are you gonna do? Send thoughts and prayers?? Well they don't accomplish SHIT.

We are 5% of the world's population yet we have 31% of the world's mass shootings.

Again... What do you conservatives wanna do about it???
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The are over 300 million guns in america.

Even if you go door to door and gather all the guns, there will be thousands in storage units, vehicles, ect. Now you can just open all those and confiscate more, but there will still be guns hidden in bunkers, under ground, ect. So tell me, what the fuck is saying ban guns going to do? What the fuck is having magazine limits going to do? What the fuck is any retarded liberal law going to do?

You just said yourself the problem is mental health. How about you liberals put your money where your mouth is. You want universal health care, start donating to mental health hospitals, facilities, and programs. Oh wait, it's easier to go after the NRA and stroke your egos when you pass some arbitrary law like the banning of collapsable stocks. Wow! So many lives were saved! Great fucking work!
 
riverman said:
you don't get to decide who's a real American
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Sure I do. I also expect them to understand what the purpose of an amendment to the Constitution accomplishes, and when it might be needed.
 
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rasheedfan2005 said:
The are over 300 million guns in america.

Even if you go door to door and gather all the guns, there will be thousands in storage units, vehicles, ect. Now you can just open all those and confiscate more, but there will still be guns hidden in bunkers, under ground, ect. So tell me, what the fuck is saying ban guns going to do? What the fuck is having magazine limits going to do? What the fuck is any retarded liberal law going to do?

You just said yourself the problem is mental health. How about you liberals put your money where your mouth is. You want universal health care, start donating to mental health hospitals, facilities, and programs. Oh wait, it's easier to go after the NRA and stroke your egos when you pass some arbitrary law like the banning of collapsable stocks. Wow! So many lives were saved! Great fucking work!
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It was YOUR FUCKING PRESIDENT WHO HELPED CAUSE THIS SHIT!!!

HOW RELEASE OF MENTAL PATIENTS BEGAN
THE policy that led to the release of most of the nation's mentally ill patients from the hospital to the community is now widely regarded as a major failure. Sweeping critiques of the policy, notably the recent report of the American Psychiatric Association, have spread the blame everywhere, faulting politicians, civil libertarian lawyers and psychiatrists.

But who, specifically, played some of the more important roles in the formation of this ill-fated policy? What motivated these influential people and what lessons are to be learned?

A detailed picture has emerged from a series of interviews and a review of public records, research reports and institutional recommendations. The picture is one of cost-conscious policy makers, who were quick to buy optimistic projections that were, in some instances, buttressed by misinformation and by a willingness to suspend skepticism.

Many of the psychiatrists involved as practitioners and policy makers in the 1950's and 1960's said in the interviews that heavy responsibility lay on a sometimes neglected aspect of the problem: the overreliance on drugs to do the work of society.

The records show that the politicians were dogged by the image and financial problems posed by the state hospitals and that the scientific and medical establishment sold Congress and the state legislatures a quick fix for a complicated problem that was bought sight unseen.

'They've Gone Far, Too Far'

In California, for example, the number of patients in state mental hospitals reached a peak of 37,500 in 1959 when Edmund G. Brown was Governor, fell to 22,000 when Ronald Reagan attained that office in 1967, and continued to decline under his administration and that of his successor, Edmund G. Brown Jr. The senior Mr. Brown now expresses regret about the way the policy started and ultimately evolved. ''They've gone far, too far, in letting people out,'' he said in an interview.

Dr. Robert H. Felix, who was then director of the National Institute of Mental Health and a major figure in the shift to community centers, says now on reflection: ''Many of those patients who left the state hospitals never should have done so. We psychiatrists saw too much of the old snake pit, saw too many people who shouldn't have been there and we overreacted. The result is not what we intended, and perhaps we didn't ask the questions that should have been asked when developing a new concept, but psychiatrists are human, too, and we tried our damnedest.''

Dr. John A. Talbott, president of the American Psychiatric Association, said, ''The psychiatrists involved in the policy making at that time certainly oversold community treatment, and our credibility today is probably damaged because of it.'' He said the policies ''were based partly on wishful thinking, partly on the enormousness of the problem and the lack of a silver bullet to resolve it, then as now.''

The original policy changes were backed by scores of national professional and philanthropic organizations and several hundred people prominent in medicine, academia and politics. The belief then was widespread that the same scientific researchers who had conjured up antibiotics and vaccines during the outburst of medical discovery in the 50's and 60's had also developed penicillins to cure psychoses and thus revolutionize the treatment of the mentally ill.

And these leaders were prodded into action by a series of scientific studies in the 1950's purporting to show that mental illness was far more prevalent than had previously been believed.

Finally, there was a growing economic and political liability faced by state legislators. Enormous amounts of tax revenues were being used to support the state mental hospitals, and the institutions themselves were increasingly thought of as ''snake pits'' or facilities that few people wanted.

One of the most influential groups in bringing about the new national policy was the Joint Commission on Mental Illness and Health, an independent body set up by Congress in 1955. One of its two surviving members, Dr. M. Brewster Smith, a University of California psychologist who served as vice president, said the commission took the direction it did because of ''the sort of overselling that happens in almost every interchange between science and government.''

''Extravagant claims were made for the benefits of shifting from state hospitals to community clinics,'' Dr. Smith said. ''The professional community made mistakes and was overly optimistic, but the political community wanted to save money.''

'Tranquilizers Became Panacea'

Charles Schlaifer, a New York advertising executive who served as secretary-treasurer of the group, said he was now disgusted with the advice presented by leading psychiatrists of that day. ''Tranquilizers became the panacea for the mentally ill,'' he said. ''The state programs were buying them by the carload, sending the drugged patients back to the community and the psychiatrists never tried to stop this. Local mental health centers were going to be the greatest thing going, but no one wanted to think it through.''
 
Cippy91 said:
"let the white folks discuss"...uhhh okay. You are the ultimate race baiter. It's hilarious
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FUCK your post. You probably didn't even watch the video before you typed it out.
 
dviss1 said:
People WITH guns do. Mental folk. What you gonna do about them?

The mental guy just killed 57 people at a country concert because he was... Mental...

Again WTF are you gonna do? Send thoughts and prayers?? Well they don't accomplish SHIT.

We are 5% of the world's population yet we have 31% of the world's mass shootings.

Again... What do you conservatives wanna do about it???
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You keep asking what others would do? what would you do? you think posting a video of some white dude basically blaming white people for this problem is the answer. Literally that video told me nothing. It was another race baiting bullshit video. It doesn't deal with the issue of semi automatics or mental health, stricter background checks, any sort of solutions and you expect for me to listen to your shit yet again about white people? yeah it's the white mans fault, forget logic, forget that white people make up most of the population here therefor the chances of a white shooter are greater. Hey though lets ignore all the black people killing each other in inner cities at a retarded rate but that's okay because they are black. Dude I can do this too. It's not hard. Bringing race into everything will never solve any issues but that's dviss for ya, black and white issue. It just pisses people off and makes me not want to engage with you in conversation. You don't listen first of all and fucking everything with you is race.
 
MarAzul said:
I am not so sure. I don't think we should be too damn quick to kill this dudes. Perhaps some study is due for as long as it takes.
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Dude is getting the death penalty, its not often the shooter survives, usually kills himsrlf or is killed by police. They are going to make an example of him.
 
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