Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

[mook]

It would change things. Parents would be more vigilant regarding the safety of their guns and less of these shootings would happen.

Not typical? It's a tale as old as time. Kid gets hold of parents guns, kid shoots up school.

If a kid gets a girl pregnant, should the parents be held criminally responsible? If he shoplifts and gets caught, should we throw the parent in jail too?

If we prosecute the parents, what happens to any other kids in the family? Their brother is dead, they may have dead classmates, and their parents are now in jail. So I guess you want the siblings to go into the foster care system? How is that good for anybody?

And it's not going to deter anything. Do you really think a parent is going to be more likely to prevent their kid from shooting up a school because they fear being prosecuted themselves? That is such a weird idea.

If my kid seemed likely to shoot up a school, I'd lock up guns and seek help for him because...that's a fucked up thing to do.

But if I didn't care enough about my kid to even consider the possibility, I'm not going to because of some parental liability possibility.

Blaming and prosecuting parents is a way for conservatives to pin responsibility on something other than the ridiculous gun culture in the US. Blame parents, blame kids, blame video games, blame anything. But for god sakes don't address the one weird thing that makes America the only place where school shootings happen regularly.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It would change things. Parents would be more vigilant regarding the safety of their guns and less of these shootings would happen.

Not typical? It's a tale as old as time. Kid gets hold of parents guns, kid shoots up school.

And kids are about 20x more likely to be killed by their parents than by a school shooter.

I'm thinking we solve the first problem we'll pretty much eliminate the second. And even if we don't completely eliminate the second, we'll save and improve a lot more lives by focusing on the first.

If your 12 year old is crazy enough to kill people and wants into your gun safe he's going to get in.

And if he can't he'll 3D print a gun.

I still simply can't imagine worrying more about getting into trouble for my kid shooting up a school than him being in a mental state to do that, and the resulting fallout with his life.

Legal repercussions for myself don't even factor in.

 

[Shaboid]

If your 12 year old is crazy enough to kill people and wants into your gun safe he's going to get in.

And if he can't he'll 3D print a gun.

I feel like you're giving a lot more credit to 12 yo's than you should. I know that 3d printed guns are a thing, but I haven't heard any report of one being used for a crime, let alone by a pre-pubescent kid. I'm sure it's happened, but not sure it's relevant to this argument.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Guns dont have mental health issues. People do.
Clean up our mental state and alot less of alot of bad things will happen.
More and more i lean with @Phatguysrule in that we cant solve anything until we solve our mental state.

now how to solve our mental state is still very complex and will take generation i think.
Just like racism is a mental state and takes generations to try to wipe out. So likely will our recovery from our mental state.
However to first recover, we must first acknowledge the core of the problem.

 

[calvin natt]

We should ask all the other countries in the developed world how they have so many mentally stable people to start. It must be nice, poof, you’re born in (insert country here) and you’ve got all your whits about you. Dear kids ages 0+: we’d love to help out with this gun crisis but first we are going to solve mental health, but don’t worry, we are checking around to see why our country seems the most fucked up.

 

[Orion Bailey]

We should ask all the other countries in the developed world how they have so many mentally stable people to start. It must be nice, poof, you’re born in (insert country here) and you’ve got all your whits about you. Dear kids ages 0+: we’d love to help out with this gun crisis but first we are going to solve mental health, but don’t worry, we are checking around to see why our country seems the most fucked up.

maybe its lack of quality parenting? Parents using tvs, pcs and phones as babysitters?


Come on man. Are you really putting people down for believing mental instability is a major issue and wanting to try to figure out the mental issue first?

are you really this…..not even sure of the right word here….

 

[calvin natt]

maybe its lack of quality parenting? Parents using tvs, pcs and phones as babysitters?


Come on man. Are you really putting people down for believing mental instability is a major issue and wanting to try to figure out the mental issue first?

are you really this…..not even sure of the right word here….

Mental “instability” is everywhere. Never said wasn’t important. But I dunno maybe we do something IN ADDITION to that. Unless of course just America is so fucked up resulting in school shootings like we have here

 

[Phatguysrule]

Mental “instability” is everywhere. Never said wasn’t important. But I dunno maybe we do something IN ADDITION to that. Unless of course just America is so fucked up resulting in school shootings like we have here

The US has a unique mixture of ignorance and technology which has been very challenging.

But the number of guns does not correlate with the number of school shootings. Idaho with half of the population of Oregon, and far more guns per capita, has had 2 school shootings since 1970.

Oregon has had 14.

If guns were the problem that wouldn't be possible.

 

[barfo]

The US has a unique mixture of ignorance and technology which has been very challenging.

But the number of guns does not correlate with the number of school shootings. Idaho with half of the population of Oregon, and far more guns per capita, has had 2 school shootings since 1970.

Oregon has had 14.

If guns were the problem that wouldn't be possible.

Kids in Idaho tend to drop out by 3rd grade when the curriculum gets tough, so they don't get many chances to shoot up schools.

barfo

 

[crandc]

It's mental health when it's a white guy. It's out of control crime when it's anyone else.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Mental “instability” is everywhere. Never said wasn’t important. But I dunno maybe we do something IN ADDITION to that. Unless of course just America is so fucked up resulting in school shootings like we have here

Why? Why send resources and funds on something that might not be the problem when we know there is a clear problem in front of us?

Its how problem solving works. You remove the known equations and dissect whats left.
Otherwise the known equations muddy the clarity of whats left.
Its the logical thing. Not the emotional thing.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Kids in Idaho tend to drop out by 3rd grade when the curriculum gets tough, so they don't get many chances to shoot up schools.

barfo

Must be something...

 

[Phatguysrule]

It's mental health when it's a white guy. It's out of control crime when it's anyone else.

I think it all comes back to lack of opportunities and ineffective/harmful social systems in most cases.

These are problems we have created out of greed and ignorance.

 

[calvin natt]

Why? Why send resources and funds on something that might not be the problem when we know there is a clear problem in front of us?

Its how problem solving works. You remove the known equations and dissect whats left.
Otherwise the known equations muddy the clarity of whats left.
Its the logical thing. Not the emotional thing.

Someone could just as easily say there is a very obvious, clear problem that we have a gun for every human in the country, that no other country comes close to having the gun obsession that America does. So let’s target that as well. Logical. Not emotional.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Someone could just as easily say there is a very obvious, clear problem that we have a gun for every human in the country, that no other country comes close to having the gun obsession that America does. So let’s target that as well. Logical. Not emotional.

i dont find it logical to focus on an inanimate object as a problem over mental health within our own bodies.

But i like the claim that your logic overrides your emotions.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Someone could just as easily say there is a very obvious, clear problem that we have a gun for every human in the country, that no other country comes close to having the gun obsession that America does. So let’s target that as well. Logical. Not emotional.

But there is just as much data opposed to that statement as there is data that supports it.

I am opposed to restricting the rights of every American based on fuzzy data when we have hard data showing other solutions are far more effective.

Especially when restricting those rights is nearly impossible to enforce (not to mention impossible to enact) and would likely lead to another huge black market and more crime and criminals anyway.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[calvin natt]

There are 120 guns for every 100 people in this country. Double the second place country, the Falkland Islands. Then Yemen. Good company. It’s insane. It’s an obsession and it’s the antiquated second amendment bullshit. It’s dumb. But the toothpaste is out of the container and the guns are out there. So next best thing is to hammer anyone who doesn’t follow the law. And there needs to be more/stricter/better laws. And the harshest of penalties for breaking them.

 

[calvin natt]

 

[calvin natt]

Fox News gonna Fox News

 

[Phatguysrule]

There are 120 guns for every 100 people in this country. Double the second place country, the Falkland Islands. Then Yemen. Good company. It’s insane. It’s an obsession and it’s the antiquated second amendment bullshit. It’s dumb. But the toothpaste is out of the container and the guns are out there. So next best thing is to hammer anyone who doesn’t follow the law. And there needs to be more/stricter/better laws. And the harshest of penalties for breaking them.

I am 100% fine with dropping the hammer on violent criminals. I'm not for turning law abiding citizens into criminals.

I'm not for restricting the rights of law abiding citizens when there is no solid data to support doing so.

 

[THE HCP]

The US has a unique mixture of ignorance and technology which has been very challenging.

But the number of guns does not correlate with the number of school shootings. Idaho with half of the population of Oregon, and far more guns per capita, has had 2 school shootings since 1970.

Oregon has had 14.

If guns were the problem that wouldn't be possible.

I’ve seen 4 people shot and murdered in my life and that wasn’t even while in the military……I’ll take a chance with a knife. MASS SCHOOL KNIFINGS…..I like the sound of that better.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I’ve seen 4 people shot and murdered in my life and that wasn’t even while in the military……I’ll take a chance with a knife. MASS SCHOOL KNIFINGS…..I like the sound of that better.

That's terrible. Where was this?

And no, you will never be rid of guns. There will always be school shootings regardless of gun laws. School shootings happen in other countries as well.

Our only hope is to prevent people from wanting to do that.

 

[THE HCP]

That's terrible. Where was this?

And no, you will never be rid of guns. There will always be school shootings regardless of gun laws. School shootings happen in other countries as well.

Our only hope is to prevent people from wanting to do that.

All 4 here in NE Portland late 80s. Gangs around here in those days were REALLY bad!

 

[THE HCP]

That's terrible. Where was this?

And no, you will never be rid of guns. There will always be school shootings regardless of gun laws. School shootings happen in other countries as well.

Our only hope is to prevent people from wanting to do that.

This one happened our freshman year by the gym on our way to practice….messed up!

 

[THE HCP]

Crazy shit…. And this was the retaliation. Our good friend JD was on our State Championship basketball team and then got popped for this murder! Dude was heading to USC on a scholarship and lost it all. Guns were just too easy for these dudes to get when we were growing up. Watch this story, they show him playing with Terrell Brandon on our team.

 

[THE HCP]

One of my best friends growing up was shot down in front of us at a party the fall after we graduated. Mujib Dudley…..

 

[THE HCP]

And this one hurt the most…… Our friend Dave was gunned down outside of one of our parties while we were all in the backyard. Football star, just ran with the wrong dudes. Never did find out who it was! Crips from Roosevelt is what everybody heard. So I have no time for people’s theories on guns. You can’t tell me shit. I also served my country and have shot everything available to the troops, so it’s not like I don’t know what I speak of. Talk about hunting and your rights and fixing the problem by taking care of a treating the nutjobs out there….save it. I’ve seen too much…..

 

[Phatguysrule]

And this one hurt the most…… Our friend Dave was gunned down outside of one of our parties while we were all in the backyard. Football star, just ran with the wrong dudes. Never did find out who it was! Crips from Roosevelt is what everybody heard. So I have no time for people’s theories on guns. You can’t tell me shit. I also served my country and have shot everything available to the troops, so it’s not like I don’t know what I speak of. Talk about hunting and your rights and fixing the problem by taking care of a treating the nutjobs out there….save it. I’ve seen too much…..View attachment 42728

Dang. Sorry for your losses.

In the 90s-10s we doubled the number of guns in the country while letting the assault weapons ban expire. And violent crime and murder rates dropped more than any other country, even while several of those countries were enacting vast gun control.

If the gun were the problem that would not be possible.

However no matter what you've seen, removing guns from the equation is not going to happen. It's not possible. There are too many guns and too many people who love them too much. They are too engrained in our culture. Guns are too easy to manufacture. We have too much technology.

I totally understand you not liking guns.

But that doesn't chsnge the facts of the situation. If we could get rid of 1 gun per second, every second of every day, it would take us decades to get rid of just the privately owbed guns we know of.

Now realize that millions of people will do everything possible to keep as many unmarked guns as possible. And losing a gun in a boating accident is a great way to make sure you never have to turn it in.

My main point is that trying to pass laws to restrict guns further is an absolute waste of time.

The other point is that even if you could pass those laws, you could never enforce them.

And even if you could enforce them like the UK and Australia, it still didn't make much of an impact. People are still shot in those countries.

It's a waste of time every logical way you look at it.

However, on thw bright side, we do know how to fix the problem.

 

[crandc]

After previous occupant of white house took office with Republican majority in Congress, very first law passed was repeal of ban on gun ownership for people with severe mental illness. Specifically, people who had legal guardian because they had demonstrated they were unable to care for their basic needs.
Other countries have people with mental illness but don't hand them unlimited guns.