Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

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Phatguysrule said:
I thought I was being pretty clear. Gun control is racist by nature. It restricts poor and minorities far more than it restricts rich whites. This puts the poor and minorities at a greater disadvantage, and is why Reagan originally supported gun control in California.

You are talking about restricting the right to defend oneself. That restriction will more severely impact the poor and minorities and will put even more of them in prison. Just like the war on drugs.

Aside from being racist and discriminatory, prohibition in general doesn't work. It never has.

Prohibition on alcohol, prohibition on weed, etc... All ended up hurting poor and minorities far more than being legal and made those in power fortunes.
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Gun control in Taiwan and many many countries is not racist....it's insurance against atrocities that your protective guns didn't provide in Texas today. Minority neighborhoods are not safer because of weapon ownership...that's a myth....the opposite happens in poor neighborhoods with guns and it's obviously failed us across all segments of society...I've been robbed at gunpoint in America and was a gun owner...didn't help me at all when the robbery happened owning a gun....I had my hands full of groceries at the time
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I thought I was being pretty clear. Gun control is racist by nature. It restricts poor and minorities far more than it restricts rich whites. This puts the poor and minorities at a greater disadvantage, and is why Reagan originally supported gun control in California.

You are talking about restricting the right to defend oneself. That restriction will more severely impact the poor and minorities and will put even more of them in prison. Just like the war on drugs.

Aside from being racist and discriminatory, prohibition in general doesn't work. It never has.

Prohibition on alcohol, prohibition on weed, etc... All ended up hurting poor and minorities far more than being legal and made those in power fortunes.
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I'm not talking about taking guns away. I don't give two shits about people's guns as long as they are responsible for them and with them. People need to stop being afraid of guns getting taken away and focus on the children that are dying.

Speaking of restriction, your idea to stop certain people from buying/owning guns via a letter on their ID card/Drivers License...is that not restriction? Yet, here you are spending every effort to argue against restriction?
 
riverman said:
Gun control in Taiwan and many many countries is not racist....it's insurance against atrocities that your protective guns didn't provide in Texas today
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According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. There’s good reason to believe that most defensive gun uses are never reported to law enforcement, much less picked up by local or national media outlets.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...e-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/amp/
 
Phatguysrule said:
I appreciate that. And I feel the same way.

However, I'm not defending guns. I'm pointing out that going after guns is a waste of time and energy. Buying into a farce that we can somehow get rid of 400 million guns, or somehow make special laws that criminals will follow is not reasonable or logical.

I'd love to actually get people discussing policies which actually have a chance to save some lives. But that's not going to happen until we discussion the policies people want to discuss...

So again, I'm always open to to the conversation. When something like this happens it bothers me as much as it bothers any of you. And I'd like to see efforts made to stop these things.

I just don't understand why people insist on focusing on things which cannot happen.
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This is bullshit. This kind of mentality does not change things. It sounds great - get the root cause, and great lets do it. But the world does a LOT of things to help curb awful things knowing it cannot prevent everything. We dont have speed limits thinking nobody will ever speed. But it helps. We can do better. We 1000000% can do things to help this. We have got to want to do it and we have to have Republicans on board. We need the NRA to go fuck themselves. What PURPOSE does the NRA have. They have their big conference this weekend. I wont write what I wish would happen to the entire block that its taking place on. Fuck those people. Nobody thinks we can go confiscate 400 million guns. But there is more we can do. It is clear. We have an INFATUATION with fucking guns and I am so goddamn sick of it. Take your guns and swallow them.
 
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EL PRESIDENTE said:
You assumed the shooters gender. Which is just as bad as what you are implying.
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They, excuse me. I saw, I believe your post of the shooter dressed in woman's clothes. I assumed they were LTBGQ. Maybe a bad assumption. I don't think it's a big jump.

I've implied nothing. Texas has recently created alot of laws to effectively try and erase or at least minimize the LBTGQ community. I could see a young person getting lost in that and going over the edge.

Just offering a possibility.
 
Chris Craig said:
They, excuse me. I saw your post of the shooter dressed in woman's clothes. I assumed they were LTBGQ. Maybe a bad assumption. I don't think it's a big jump.

I've implied nothing. Texas has recently created alot of laws to effectively try and erase or at least minimize the LBTGQ community. I could see a young person getting lost in that and going over the edge.

Just offering a possibility.
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I posted no pic of the shooter in women's clothes.
 
Chris Craig said:
I'm not talking about taking guns away. I don't give two shits about people's guns as long as they are responsible for them and with them. People need to stop being afraid of guns getting taken away and focus on the children that are dying.

Speaking of restriction, your idea to stop certain people from buying/owning guns via a letter on their ID card/Drivers License...is that not restriction? Yet, here you are spending every effort to argue against restriction?
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I have no problem with restricting criminals. I can't stress that enough.

That is a suggestion that doesn't violate the constitution because it only restricts criminals. Yet it would be every bit as effective as any gun control law.

In fact, I would argue that it would be more effective than any gun control because it would be so simple to use. So if my grandfather wanted to give me a gun he could just go through the formality of checking my license before making the transaction.

Using the background system requires a fee as well as a delay. It's a hassle that many people ignore for private party transactions.

That complication makes it less effective and more likely to create criminals.
 
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riverman said:
using firearms defensively because someone was threatening them with a firearm?....the country I cited had zero of these situations and no lobby to justify an NRA power base at all...basically you think it's safer to have half a million to three million gun encounters than zero? I'll have to disagree.
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No, not defense from guns. Just in general.

We also have higher violent crime and murder rates than many first world countries even without guns as a consideration. This is due to our poor gini coefficient.

The ability to have guns as a means of self defense allows an old woman to defend herself from a 6'5" mugger when she would otherwise be at his mercy.

Are you arguing that you think we can get rid of all guns? Because if you understand that we can't, I'm afraid I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
That was another person posted I believe.
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Pretty sure it's the shooter. At least, the tweet indentifies the person in the picture as the shooter. Could be wrong.
 
RR7 said:
It's clear they also didn't want women to vote and valued blacks as less than a full person. Why is it were able to make changes to their backwards thinking on some things, but on others, we go off of the thinking of guys from 250 years ago and seem to deem them infallible. Fuck what they wanted if times change and change is warranted.
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Exactly.

Who fucking gives a shit what these assholes in the 1700s wanted?

this is the 21st century and a colonizing monarchy isn't ruling the nation.

i hate when people bring up that argument as if it's some puritanical sacred notion that can't be altered.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think ammunition would fall under arms. And I think our current Supreme Court would agree.

It seems pretty clear to me that the founding fathers intended the population to be a well regulated militia (meaning capable non-regular infantry).

So the idea of the 2nd ammendment was to encourage the people own and practice with weapons equivalent to that of your average infantry soldier.

This would include military caliber rifles as well as handguns and the ammunition which makes them capable as arms.

I believe the current Supreme Court would likely rule pretty close to that.
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fuck the founding fathers. they've been long dead for 3 centuries.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We also have higher violent crime and murder rates than many first world countries even without guns as a consideration
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and this statement makes no sense to me period...how are guns not used as consideration? Because you want them? We can get rid of guns, nukes, wars.....all that bullshit but it's not that we can't...it's that we won't. I've got a real disdain for our gun laws today and in Texas there are probably more guns in those households than most that didn't save those kids...I hope the parents don't now turn them against themselves because that's another problem with gun ownership....people use them on themselves pretty often and worse..on their own family members.....I'm sick of reading about it everyday and know people who've done that dance personally....I've no empathy in that world..turn swords into plow shears...grow some food..fuck guns ...better off without them
 
The picture I posted is one of many that are being posted on twitter that claims the shooter was transgender. Except many of the pictures are different. Like they are looking for similar trans people and claiming they are the same person as the shooter. Twitter is deleting them almost as fast as they're being posted. You can see them here - https://twitter.com/search?q=Shooter&src=trend_click&f=image&vertical=trends

I have yet to see any credible news article saying the shooter was trans. It is weird that there seems to be a concerted effort to say the shooter was trans.
 
Shaboid said:
Yeah, I saw that on Wikipedia the other day. Really something but I don't think it really relates to today's mass killings. Idk.
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I am not sure if it does either. I just found the focus on the mindset of these types of individuals interesting. If we can figure out what is going on in their heads, then it seems we have made the first step in solving/reversing this ongoing and disgusting trend of mass killing innocents.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
The picture I posted is one of many that are being posted on twitter that claims the shooter was transgender. Except many of the pictures are different. Like they are looking for similar trans people and claiming they are the same person as the shooter. Twitter is deleting them almost as fast as they're being posted. You can see them here - https://twitter.com/search?q=Shooter&src=trend_click&f=image&vertical=trends

I have yet to see any credible news article saying the shooter was trans. It is weird that there seems to be a concerted effort to say the shooter was trans.
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Would it be a stereotype/stigma that transgender folk are generally thin/tall/lanky? (ludicrous btw)
 
These comments, pure hate speech.

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riverman said:
and this statement makes no sense to me period...how are guns not used as consideration? Because you want them? We can get rid of guns, nukes, wars.....all that bullshit but it's not that we can't...it's that we won't. I've got a real disdain for our gun laws today and in Texas there are probably more guns in those households than most that didn't save those kids...I hope the parents don't now turn them against themselves because that's another problem with gun ownership....people use them on themselves pretty often and worse..on their own family members.....I'm sick of reading about it everyday and know people who've done that dance personally....I've no empathy in that world..turn swords into plow shears...grow some food..fuck guns ...better off without them
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What I mean is our non gun related violent crime and murder rates are higher than other countries as well.

That has nothing to do with guns. We have a society that is more violent than others. Regardless of guns.

That is what we need to affrrss because getting rid of guns is a pipe dream. There is no logical way that it will happen in our lifetimes.

We should try to do something that can actually make a difference. And those other options have been proven to save more lives and improve far more lives than any gun control ever has.
 
Phatguysrule said:
What I mean is our non gun related violent crime and murder rates are higher than other countries as well.

That has nothing to do with guns. We have a society that is more violent than others. Regardless of guns.

That is what we need to affrrss because getting rid of guns is a pipe dream. There is no logical way that it will happen in our lifetimes.

We should try to do something that can actually make a difference. And those other options have been proven to save more lives and improve far more lives than any gun control ever has.
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It doesn't have to be an either or thing. We can have gun control and do some of the things you mention.
 
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