Game 20: Knicks @ Nets

[DevinNets34]

Maybe that's the reason that Cuban would deal Harris and traded for Kidd, they need a playmaker, not a scorer.

But right now, we can't win every game with Harris scoring so much, just one game, pathetic though.

 

[GMJ]

This is his 2nd year...no one in the Nets Front Office ever expected him to be Great in his Sophomore Season. Fast forward 2 years from now, if Yi's still weak on the defensive end come the 2011 season...then yes, ya'll can officially label him a disappointment.

"Wack" would be the Italian dude the Knicks drafted...."Wack" would be Darko Fuckin' Milicic...."Wack" would be Coaching staff of the Oklahoma Thunder.

I rest my case.

"Disappointment" and Mr. J's word "wack" have a different meaning. He'll continue to have a "wack" game until he's serviceable on defense. If he never does, he'll be somewhat disappointing. I can't believe I'm arguing the semantics of the word "wack."

 

[YehYeh]

Oh, I see a goat here! No, the goat is over there! You guys talk a bunch of crap!

Yi is not horrible on defense at all. Bball defense is about matchups, and last night in the fourth, smaller quicker men beat him. That's why he is not a SF. Besides, nobody can guard a quicker man outside. Did anyone else stop Harrington or Thomas? Yi has pluses and minuses. Most times he wins. When he is not on the floor, we lose.

 

[YehYeh]

I don't mean this as an insult, but Nets fans are really ignorant about how to play run and gun teams. Sure the defense was bad, but that's to be expected. the entire Knicks frontline are build for mismatches. David Lee and Wilson Chandler are faster than other teams C and PF, Al Harrington is too big and strong for other small forwards. Any team is going to have defensive problems against them, that's how run and gun works. But the worst thing you can do is get sucked into playing their game, which the Nets did. Using small players to match up against them are going to get blown out every game.

The key to play against run and gun teams are to pound them inside, and make them pay for playing small. I followed Rockets for years, Yao can't guard any of the small guys, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be on the court, he makes them pay on the offensive end. The Nets really lost because we don't have a reliable post scorer, we tried to feed Lopez some but it was very successful. I knew it was a loss after frank took Lopez and Yi out in the 3rd and started to play Knicks game.

Exactly.

 

[CalamityX04]

I don't mean this as an insult, but Nets fans are really ignorant about how to play run and gun teams. Sure the defense was bad, but that's to be expected. the entire Knicks frontline are build for mismatches. David Lee and Wilson Chandler are faster than other teams C and PF, Al Harrington is too big and strong for other small forwards. Any team is going to have defensive problems against them, that's how run and gun works. But the worst thing you can do is get sucked into playing their game, which the Nets did. Using small players to match up against them are going to get blown out every game.

The key to play against run and gun teams are to pound them inside, and make them pay for playing small. I followed Rockets for years, Yao can't guard any of the small guys, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be on the court, he makes them pay on the offensive end. The Nets really lost because we don't have a reliable post scorer, we tried to feed Lopez some but it was very successful. I knew it was a loss after frank took Lopez and Yi out in the 3rd and started to play Knicks game.

Co-sign

 

[SUPERB]

Oden and Lebron too. Chinese government also gave them free bucket of fried chicken.

Racist prick.

 

[nets1]

seems like there are two types of fans on this board, nets fans and Yi fans.

 

[SUPERB]

Oh, I see a goat here! No, the goat is over there! You guys talk a bunch of crap!

Yi is not horrible on defense at all. Bball defense is about matchups, and last night in the fourth, smaller quicker men beat him. That's why he is not a SF. Besides, nobody can guard a quicker man outside. Did anyone else stop Harrington or Thomas? Yi has pluses and minuses. Most times he wins. When he is not on the floor, we lose.

yi is a terrible defender period.

 

[ffz]

seems like there are two types of fans on this board, nets fans and Yi fans.

you forgot about nets fans that post just to hate on yi.

 

[Mr. J]

Correction, Sir, Yi's defense is wack...overall, statistically he's a decent player based on his Efficiency rating which is a 13.27...he's right behind Luol Deng (13.31), and he's ahead of cats like Wilson Chandler (13.20) Al Thornton (13.04) and Kyle Korver and Tyson Chandler (both below a 13.00)...so overall, is Yi's game weak? No, but is his defense "weak"? Yes. His statistical output doesn't land anywhere near the vicinity of "wack"....your hypothesis isn't substantiated, b.

I like the PER ratings, but they can be misleading at times. Trevor Ariza has a higher PER than Carmelo Anthony and Paul Pierce. Ginobili has a higher PER than Kobe. Similarly, Yi has a higher PER than Deng, (not Wilson Chandler) Thornton, and the other players you just named. Does this mean he is any better? No. A week or two ago he finally reached 40% shooting from the field. With such size and athleticism Yi wastes his size camping outside and shooting jumpers long. So he’s generally inefficient offensively and a liability defensively. Most of the guys you named: both Tyson and Wilson Chandler, Thornton, are much better defensively. With the exception of blocks and steals, defense is not reflected in the PER rating. And with that said, a player with a high block or steals rate isn’t necessarily a good defender either.

This is his 2nd year...no one in the Nets Front Office ever expected him to be Great in his Sophomore Season. Fast forward 2 years from now, if Yi's still weak on the defensive end come the 2011 season...then yes, ya'll can officially label him a disappointment.

"Wack" would be the Italian dude the Knicks drafted...."Wack" would be Darko Fuckin' Milicic...."Wack" would be Coaching staff of the Oklahoma Thunder.

I rest my case.

The front office might not have expected him to be great, but they did not expect him to be subpar offensively and be awful defensively.

The difference is you are measuring something proven versus something unproven. Yi, OKC Thunder, and Darko Milicic have played and have sucked. Therefore one can conclude that they are proven to suck. Gallo has not played therefore he is unproven. How can you call a player wack who hasn’t played yet?

Did I ever say the Knicks aren't a playoff team? The East is wide open this year. The only team I definitely can't see in the playoffs is Charlotte. Maybe Washington.

I also said the Nets played horrible defense, which was obviously the reason they lost. The Knicks wouldn't have heated up if the Nets had played good defense from the start.

Lawrence Frank has been GREAT this season. I don't see why you think he's a bad coach. He did get schooled by D'Antoni today, though. D'Antoni is a superb coach himself.

I wasn’t referring to you, I was referring to the Nets fans saying “omg!, I can’t believe we just lost to the knicks!!1!” The Nets aren’t that much better, if any at all.

But the Nets always play horrible defense. They are 4th in the league in opponent’s PPG. The only difference is that their pace isn’t as fast as Golden State’s or New York’s. Opponents also shoot 30 free throws per game against the Nets, which is good enough for second in the league in opponent’s FTA. So, it was basically a regular game for the Nets defensively.

Maybe bad was a little too harsh, but he’s average at best.

 

[Malorkayel]

Racist prick.

Yes, that was my point.

 

[Malorkayel]

Galo is looking to be a Bust. young guy with more health problems than 40 year olds. He also play worse defense than Yi and softer and smaller.

I think I'll be going on the Knicks board every time they lose and post how much of a bust Galo is. A quarter of the season is over, he still can't play. Also, he's been proven fragile even in Italy. He never play a full season there either.

 

[YiOF]

I am not defending Yi's defense. Even if you are a Yi fan, like myself, you have to realize he's terrible at D right now. But for a game lost by getting out coached, a lot of people seem to focus on Yi's defense. Yea, he got blown by like every play and looked foolish, so did Anderson and Williams. Nets coaching staff need to realize that we can't stop Harrington or Chandler with our big guys. they are picked by D'antoni because they can chew up big frontlines. what we needed to do is let them take jump shots and protect the paint. Give them 5 feet if needed to, I saw all of our guys running out like idiots on pumpfakes and only to get blown by like they were even there. There was no adjustment whatsoever, once we use our small line up to match up with theirs on the defensive end, we are playing their game and the game is over.

 

[kobimel]

Galo is looking to be a Bust. young guy with more health problems than 40 year olds. He also play worse defense than Yi and softer and smaller.

I think I'll be going on the Knicks board every time they lose and post how much of a bust Galo is. A quarter of the season is over, he still can't play. Also, he's been proven fragile even in Italy. He never play a full season there either.

I know, he missed one out of 42 regular season/playoff games in 06/07 and 5 out of 42 in 07/08. He must be 59 years old! At least you weren't wrong when you said he never played a full season.

He's a very talented basketball player and I wish he was on the Nets (not instead of Lopez, though). You've probably never watched the kid play so I don't expect you to know how good he is. Poor guy suffered a bad injury in his first preseason games and people are already calling him out on it. Wait until he plays at full strength before you start calling him a bust.

Also, please don't compare him to Yi. They have completely different games. Yi is a much better shooter but Gallinari is much more creative and a better playmaker. He isn't soft (but hey, that's the stereotype so why not use it). In fact, the Euroleague is much more aggressive than the NBA. The problem is that nearly all of the "eurostash" guys were drafted at such a young age that they barely even played in the Euroleague or sometimes even their national league(like Ajinca from Charlotte). Yi on the other hand has been passive on offense a lot and yesterday played with 0 aggressiveness on defense. Is that not soft? Wanting to dunk the ball does not show aggressiveness.

 

[Malorkayel]

I know, he missed one out of 42 regular season/playoff games in 06/07 and 5 out of 42 in 07/08. He must be 59 years old! At least you weren't wrong when you said he never played a full season.

He's a very talented basketball player and I wish he was on the Nets (not instead of Lopez, though). You've probably never watched the kid play so I don't expect you to know how good he is. Poor guy suffered a bad injury in his first preseason games and people are already calling him out on it. Wait until he plays at full strength before you start calling him a bust.

Also, please don't compare him to Yi. They have completely different games. Yi is a much better shooter but Gallinari is much more creative and a better playmaker. He isn't soft (but hey, that's the stereotype so why not use it). In fact, the Euroleague is much more aggressive than the NBA. The problem is that nearly all of the "eurostash" guys were drafted at such a young age that they barely even played in the Euroleague or sometimes even their national league(like Ajinca from Charlotte). Yi on the other hand has been passive on offense a lot and yesterday played with 0 aggressiveness on defense. Is that not soft? Wanting to dunk the ball does not show aggressiveness.

I'm a closet Knicks fan and watched all of Galo's preseason (1 game, lol). Couldn't figure how he got hurt in that game. He got slight contact going to the hoop. I watch the Knicks when the Nets aren't on.

Yi can't be aggressive guarding smaller players, His strides doesn't match up and it looks awkward. The refs blow the whistle on him so fast. Oh well, tired of defending that guy. At least we can see where Yi need to work on and he stopped getting in foul trouble so much.

 

[LoneStarReb]

The front office might not have expected him to be great, but they did not expect him to be subpar offensively and be awful defensively.

Yi, OKC Thunder, and Darko Milicic have played and have sucked. Therefore one can conclude that they are proven to suck. Gallo has not played therefore he is unproven. How can you call a player wack who hasn’t played yet?

Maybe bad was a little too harsh, but he’s average at best.

True statistics can be misleading, and true, I'll leave the Italian cat outta this convo until he finally plays.

But your assumptions don't check out....let me add some sources so you'll see I'm not pulling fabricated points outta nowhere.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4284
^
>As you can see, the league average Points Per Game for a 4-Man is at 9.4 PPG, Yi is slightly above at 11.1 PPG
>The league Average Rebounds for a 4-Man is at a 4.5, Yi is averaging a 6.2
>Throw in the fact that Yi is pretty athletic and has good range for a 7 Footer, he's above average compared to the League's norm at the PF spot (offensively)


So, is Yi AVERAGE at best? NO, in fact, he's SLIGHTLY better than Average.

On the other hand, you misunderstood the point I was making with the Hollinger PER ratings...the point I was making is that if Yi was a total bust, his PER would be much lower. Yes, I understand that PER doesn't reflect defensive abilities and other intangibles, but I wanted to rebut the claim that Yi's game was completely "wack" as some one stated, without even backing up his claims with the WHOLE picture (It's already understood he's weak on 'D').

You can't put Milicic and Yi on the same boat, because Yi is CLEARLY better than Darko...just look at the numbers, if you still disagree, you know you're being biased.

Final Conclusion:

Yeah, Yi is NO Elvin Hayes...but Yi sure as hell is no Shawn Bradley.

 

[Malorkayel]

Yi ally slam.

Also, Nets on #9 (Harris) and #8(Yi) on NBA top 10.

 

[networks]

^That is beautiful!!!!

 

[Mr. J]

True statistics can be misleading, and true, I'll leave the Italian cat outta this convo until he finally plays.

But your assumptions don't check out....let me add some sources so you'll see I'm not pulling fabricated points outta nowhere.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4284
^
>As you can see, the league average Points Per Game for a 4-Man is at 9.4 PPG, Yi is slightly above at 11.1 PPG
>The league Average Rebounds for a 4-Man is at a 4.5, Yi is averaging a 6.2
>Throw in the fact that Yi is pretty athletic and has good range for a 7 Footer, he's above average compared to the League's norm at the PF spot (offensively)


So, is Yi AVERAGE at best? NO, in fact, he's SLIGHTLY better than Average.

On the other hand, you misunderstood the point I was making with the Hollinger PER ratings...the point I was making is that if Yi was a total bust, his PER would be much lower. Yes, I understand that PER doesn't reflect defensive abilities and other intangibles, but I wanted to rebut the claim that Yi's game was completely "wack" as some one stated, without even backing up his claims with the WHOLE picture (It's already understood he's weak on 'D').

You can't put Milicic and Yi on the same boat, because Yi is CLEARLY better than Darko...just look at the numbers, if you still disagree, you know you're being biased.

Final Conclusion:

Yeah, Yi is NO Elvin Hayes...but Yi sure as hell is no Shawn Bradley.

You are still looking too hard into the statistics. Those Yahoo statistics don't show the average power forward's FG%. Yi is shooting 43% which is not too good. Now there are a few low percentage, yet quality power forwards in the league. The difference is they shoot their percentage facing double and triple teams while usually getting to the line at a solid rate. And for the 11 points Yi averages, you have to consider the amount of points he possibly gives up on defense, which could easily be over 11. He also fouls at a somewhat high rate as well.

And you are right; Yi is usually taller and more athletic than the average power forward. This makes his lackluster percentage standout even more. Despite usually having mismatches in his favor, he fails to exploit them, lending credence to his low basketball IQ. He also has the tendency to float out on the perimeter and become a total non-factor if he isn't hitting his shot.

Yi isn’t a total bust because he, like Darko, has the ability to improve, but I think the painful truth is unraveling: both will fall short of their expectations. And I never said Darko was better than Yi; in fact, I never even brought him into the conversation.

The argument can definitely be made that Bradley was better than Yi. Bradley has career numbers of 8/6 and 2.5 blocks per game. Right now Yi is averaging 3 more points on a worse percentage and he’s averaging about 2 less blocks.

 

[LoneStarReb]

You are still looking too hard into the statistics. Those Yahoo statistics don't show the average power forward's FG%. Yi is shooting 43% which is not too good. Now there are a few low percentage, yet quality power forwards in the league. The difference is they shoot their percentage facing double and triple teams while usually getting to the line at a solid rate. And for the 11 points Yi averages, you have to consider the amount of points he possibly gives up on defense, which could easily be over 11. He also fouls at a somewhat high rate as well.

And you are right; Yi is usually taller and more athletic than the average power forward. This makes his lackluster percentage standout even more. Despite usually having mismatches in his favor, he fails to exploit them, lending credence to his low basketball IQ. He also has the tendency to float out on the perimeter and become a total non-factor if he isn't hitting his shot.

Yi isn’t a total bust because he, like Darko, has the ability to improve, but I think the painful truth is unraveling: both will fall short of their expectations. And I never said Darko was better than Yi; in fact, I never even brought him into the conversation.

The argument can definitely be made that Bradley was better than Yi. Bradley has career numbers of 8/6 and 2.5 blocks per game. Right now Yi is averaging 3 more points on a worse percentage and he’s averaging about 2 less blocks.

Yezzir, you have made some solid points as well....all we can really do as fans, is wait and hope that lottery Picks like Yi can at least reach somewhere near their projected potential. In the future, I can see Yi posting Career averages of 15 to 17 points, 7 rebounds, and 3 assists (not Great, but not Bad...solid production for a 6th Pick).

IMO, he's the Asian Rudy Tomjanovich....with hops.