Game Thread GAME# 75: BLAZERS @ HAWKS - MARCH 29, 2019 - FRIDAY, 4:30 PM, NBCSNW

[twobullz]

Why do you keep calling him Larry Bird 2.0? And you said "all you care about is points" while all you care about is basic box score stats? Even your use of box score stats is bad.

Per 100 Possessions:
Pts - Layman 19.4, Turner 14.4
Rebs - Turner 9.5, Layman 8.2
Asts - Turner 8.1, Layman 1.9
Efficiency (TS%) - Layman 59.6, Turner 48.9
ORtg - Layman 117, Turner 101
DRtg - Layman 112, Turner 111
Net Rating - Layman +5, Turner -10

So you think that Turner is better because of an extra 1.3 rebounds per 100 possessions, which is more than offset due to the fact that Layman runs the floor much better than Turner because he's not trying to get every single rebound, no matter if it's from his teammate?
You think that taking the ball out of more skilled players (Lillard, McCollum, Curry, Hood, Kanter, etc.) and putting it in Turners is a good thing because he gets assists?
Do you know what floor spacing is?
Do you not understand ORtg, DRtg, Net Rating, and how that shows how the team performs with given player on the court?
Do you really put more weight in basic box score stats than advanced metrics?

You don't think that fact that Jake plays with the Dame a lot more then ET does doesn't have an impact on his numbers? So yes I do look at basic stats, because playing with Dame makes 2.0 numbers look better. ET makes other players better by setting them up. LB2.0 does not make anybody better. So you still think LB2.0 is worth 10-12 million a year?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You don't think that fact that Jake plays with the Dame a lot more then ET does doesn't have an impact on his numbers? So yes I do look at basic stats, because playing with Dame makes 2.0 numbers look better. ET makes other players better by setting them up. LB2.0 does not make anybody better. So you still think LB2.0 is worth 10-12 million a year?

What if I honestly dont really think either are that good. I mean I LOVED the stretch of awesome that Layman had, and I love how active he is. I just think he’s at best a role player until he can do that more then a few weeks a season.

I know bones and I have discussed our thoughts on ET and he thinks he’s worse then I do (or so it seems), but really ET was only really good the 1st month or so of the season too.

One gets paid way too much (NO’s fault, not ET’s), but to me you could fairly easily come up with there production with other NBA players. The one thing layman has is it appears he’s still getting better. ET isnt.

 

[BonesJones]

You don't think that fact that Jake plays with the Dame a lot more then ET does doesn't have an impact on his numbers? So yes I do look at basic stats, because playing with Dame makes 2.0 numbers look better. ET makes other players better by setting them up. LB2.0 does not make anybody better. So you still think LB2.0 is worth 10-12 million a year?

SIGH. If Turner "made players better", then you wouldn't have to excuse him having a -10 net rating by him not being able to play enough with great players. Especially when other bench players have much better net ratings than he does. Even when Turner plays with Dame and C.J. (which he's done in past years), he still has a similarly negative net rating when compared to other players. But look at this:

Bench Players ORTG/DRTG (NET RATING)
Curry - 114/114 (0)
Collins - 112/110 (+2)
Hood - 116/113 (+3)
Layman - 117/112 (+5)
Kanter - 121/109 (+12)
Turner - 101/111 (-10)

EVERY Rotation player has an even or better net rating with Portland, except for Turner who's a MINUS 10. You're seriously going to try and explain that insane discrepancy by saying "he doesn't play enough with Dame / CJ?"

Turner CANT play with Dame, because he HAS to have the ball in his hands to be effective, and taking the ball out of Lillards hands to put in Turner's isn't a good thing, and Turner playing off of Dame makes things 10 times harder on Dame. Turner is the worst player to have on the court with Dame and C.J. He's bad without them too.

You don't value RPM, BPM, or WS/48, or anything else like that? Because they all rate Turner horribly.

At this point, I don't think you'll listen to logic, or proof.

 

[BonesJones]

What if I honestly dont really think either are that good. I mean I LOVED the stretch of awesome that Layman had, and I love how active he is. I just think he’s at best a role player until he can do that more then a few weeks a season.

I know bones and I have discussed our thoughts on ET and he thinks he’s worse then I do (or so it seems), but really ET was only really good the 1st month or so of the season too.

One gets paid way too much (NO’s fault, not ET’s), but to me you could fairly easily come up with there production with other NBA players. The one thing layman has is it appears he’s still getting better. ET isnt.

The thing is, Layman is 10 times more helpful when he doesn't have the ball. When he does have the ball, he scores more, and is MUCH more efficient. Turner is the type of player who has to dominate the ball because he can't play without it, and any possession that doesn't end in Turner assisting someone else is usually an empty possession due to his inefficiency, due to how terrible the spacing is, someone not cashing in an assist for him, etc.

But you got this guy ignoring the 92% of possessions Turner is on the floor that doesn't end in an assist, while choosing to only focus on the 8% of possessions that do. Turner's playmaking is his only "good" skill, and it only produces a positive result of 1 out of every 12 possessions.

 

[H.C.]

Why do you keep calling him Larry Bird 2.0?

 

[tlongII]

Well. He’s one of the best that’s ever played the game.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Well. He’s one of the best that’s ever played the game.

Evan Turner?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The thing is, Layman is 10 times more helpful when he doesn't have the ball. When he does have the ball, he scores more, and is MUCH more efficient. Turner is the type of player who has to dominate the ball because he can't play without it, and any possession that doesn't end in Turner assisting someone else is usually an empty possession due to his inefficiency, due to how terrible the spacing is, someone not cashing in an assist for him, etc.

But you got this guy ignoring the 92% of possessions Turner is on the floor that doesn't end in an assist, while choosing to only focus on the 8% of possessions that do. Turner's playmaking is his only "good" skill, and it only produces a positive result of 1 out of every 12 possessions.

Yeah I agree. Id rather play Layman than Turner. Ideal situation at this point, Id probably rather not play either extended minutes though.

 

[stampedehero]

“At the start of the game they were getting some things," said Lillard. "I don’t think it was because of effort or not focusing, they just came out competing, playing hard, and making some good plays. We tightened it up in the third and again in the fourth and we were able to get another win."

The Trail Blazers were led by Damian Lillard, who put up a game-high 26 points on 13-of-25 shooting from the field to go with seven assists and three rebounds in 32 minutes.

Atlanta native Al-Farouq Aminu put up another double-double with 17 points and 11 rebounds while also adding two assists in 30 minutes. Enes Kanter, who has started at center with Jusuf Nurkic (left leg) out for the season, went 7-of-11 for 14 points to go with eight rebounds in 25 minutes.

Seth Curry added 12 points off the bench and both Jake Layman and Zach Collins finished with nine points, with the latter also grabbing nine rebounds in 19 minutes.

Rookie Trae Young led the Hawks with 26 points, with 20 of those coming in the first half, nine rebounds and seven assists in 32 minutes. John Collins added 20 points on 50 percent shooting.

Next up, the Trail Blazers head to Detroit to play the second game of a back-to-back versus the Pistons at Lil’ Caesars Arena. Tipoff is scheduled for 4 p.m. Source: Official Blazers site.

 

[kjironman1]

6 games. My post wasn’t clear since I threw in 9-1. The winning streak is without CJ.

To be fair on this. The schedule without CJ has been pretty good. Not to take anything away from the wins. But they could not have had much easier a schedule to play.

 

[James lamphear]

To be fair on this. The schedule without CJ has been pretty good. Not to take anything away from the wins. But they could not have had much easier a schedule to play.

Yea one reason we been on a roll but also put our bench been playing better that something to do with it too.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Fun fact from the game:
The Hawks announcers were drooling over Zach's footwork, and they were wishing their bigs (including John Collins) had that type of footwork.

 

[Cugel]

Seth has become one of my favorites to watch. Has he ever looked more confident, and comfortable? It is a huge lift to have a guy come of the bench and immediately drain a long j. Going forward he needs touches no matter who starts.

Hood is very long though and his shot at the top of the key off the dribble is money

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Fun fact from the game:
The Hawks announcers were drooling over Zach's footwork, and they were wishing their bigs (including John Collins) had that type of footwork.

I wish the Blazers would use him in the post more. I mean he can hit an occasional three pointer, but offensively Ive always thought his best skill / attributes have always been post moves, footwork, and for a young player, playing under control. I dont know why in the NBA if you can shoot a three pointer at all you get relegated to standing at the three point line most of the time. He’s more effective inside in my opinion.