Gary "Hard Cap" Payton

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WesleyMatthews said:
None of Winslow, Watford, or Nurk should be in the discussion of Draymond level playmaking.

GPII won't have those opportunities here he got in Golden State. It's a joke to compare the level of playmaking on the Blazers he will get from basically scrubs in Winslow and Watford.
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Your "crystal ball" is cracked.
 
BIG Q said:
I'm curious why some here are worried about lineups with GPII. Golden State wasn't. They threw him out there with everyone on their roster. Pretty sure we can do so as well.
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Boy that’s a good point. I’m glad we are as good and talented as Golden State.
 
I appreciate the snark. You don't always have to be as good as the opponent. But you must always be confident in your own abilities. Portland stole a key player off of the defending champs roster for nothing. No picks, no players. Just offered him more years on a contract. Reports say the Warriors players are upset by losing GPII. I'm sure the Warriors still have all the confidence in the world, but now they have to go forward without GPII. Portland now utilizes that asset. Portland now has to be confident in what they are doing. If this is Dames best roster in Portland, lets rock. Do I expect a title this year? Hell no. I want to see where the holes are, plug them and then make that run. I've always been confident Portland is 3 years away with Ant, NAS and now Sharpe now hopefully becoming stars or top 10 players at their positions. Added Grant for nothing while retaining Nurk who is a top 10 center. I like Hart, but doubt we will be able to keep him. I like some of our bench players like Winslow. Even Showtime Lakers started Kurt Rambis. They had better players on the bench. It's putting the right mix together and being confident. Can we do it? Lets watch and see.
 
BIG Q said:
Portland stole a key player off of the defending champs roster for nothing.
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Not nothing. We used cap space and we used the MLE which hard capped us.

Taking key players from other teams doesn't necessarily mean they will translate on your team. Case in point: Evan Turner.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Should this be GP2 nickname the next year?

I imagine every game this year I watch him I will be thinking if his addition is worth a year of the Blazers being hard capped.

Yes its unfair, as its not his fault he is the 7th guard Cronin put on the roster, or that Cronin decided to hard cap the Blazers. But I don't think I'll be able to help but judge Payton in this context.
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I gotta say, "Hard Cap" is a pretty catchy nickname.

Especially for a gangster.

:cheers:
 
Payton rated out as the best defender in the entire playoffs. And considering how he was dunking everything in sight, he was rated as the 2nd best player overall by the raptor metric. Really hope we can use him in some similar manner.

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Cap is another word for a hat.

Hard hat gp2. Sounds about right
 
Tince said:
The hard cap is really ruining peoples ability to fantasize about trades that were never going to happen anyway.
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Fairly-Hard said:
Josh Hart, Keon Johnson, Trendon Watford, Nassir Little all listed and sized as Small Forward.
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If Norman Powell isn't a SF, then sebody with his same height and a 3 inch shorter reach isn't either. Watford isn't a SF, he played C for the post part last season.
 
sheed30 said:
What no sense is this? Little is our 3 if he can just stay healthy and while undersized a little Hart can play the 3 at times. I’ll admit things get real thin if Little gets hurt again which seems more likely than not but to say we have no 3 on this team is silly
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Little has to play the 4 if we're going to give the guys that deserve minutes the proper minutes. That's what happens when 5 out of the other top 7 players are guards or even small forwards. Only 2 out of our top 8 are PFs or Cs if Nas is a SF...
 
julius said:
It's weird that the Warriors have 1 player over 6'9" in their rotation...had GP2 on their team as a wing, and yet....
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Otto Porter, Draymond Green, Kevon Looney, and Andrew Wiggins are bigger than 6 of our top 8 players and equal in size to 1 of the other 2.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Not nothing. We used cap space and we used the MLE which hard capped us.

Taking key players from other teams doesn't necessarily mean they will translate on your team. Case in point: Evan Turner.
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If the Blazers aren’t viewing this season as a MUST COMPETE for title season? What’s the issue? We added a 16 game type player to the roster for free and aren’t not going to be hampered by the hard cap the following season?
 
BonesJones said:
If Norman Powell isn't a SF, then sebody with his same height and a 3 inch shorter reach isn't either. Watford isn't a SF, he played C for the post part last season.
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All are listed as Small Forward. Sorry. You're wrong on this. If they are able to play multiple positions it just makes it better for the team in the long run.
The Blazers have plenty of bodies to play the position. Doesn't matter where they played last year for a rookie coach coaching a team that was tanking.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
All are listed as Small Forward. Sorry. You're wrong on this. If they are able to play multiple positions it just makes it better for the team in the long run.
The Blazers have plenty of bodies to play the position. Doesn't matter where they played last year for a rookie coach coaching a team that was tanking.
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You're legitimately claiming that what position is arbitrarily listed on BBref is more important than where they actually played? Does how they're listed on ESPN matter? 'Cause that's different entirely.

Also, regarding Johnson and Hart, if "how they're listed" matters, wouldn't how they're listed on the Blazers' official site be the most relevant listing? Both are listed as guards on Blazers.com.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You're legitimately claiming that what position is arbitrarily listed on BBref or ESPN is more important than where they actually played?

Also, regarding Johnson and Hart, if "how they're listed" matters, wouldn't how they're listed on the Blazers' official site be the most relevant listing? Both are listed as guards on Blazers.com.
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No I'm not. What i'm saying and what i responded to was that this team has plenty of players that can cover the 3.
The Blazers have players to cover the SF position.
 
BonesJones said:
If Norman Powell isn't a SF, then sebody with his same height and a 3 inch shorter reach isn't either. Watford isn't a SF, he played C for the post part last season.
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Do you think it's reasonable for Hart to play SF ? What about Nas at PF, do you think he would be much worst than at SF ?
 
SIeepwalker said:
Do you think it's reasonable for Hart to play SF ? What about Nas at PF, do you think he would be much worst than at SF ?
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Probably fine to have a single player slide up to a bigger position where they play small.

But the Blazers have nearly the whole roster that has to slide up to positions their undersized at. Ant has to slide up to SG because we have the supermax Dame. Hart has to slide up to SF because we have Ant at SG, and no established SF. Little has to slide up to PF because we have all these guards that need minutes at SF. Grant likely has to slide to backup center because we only have one legit injury prone center who's averaged 27mpg as a Blazer.

The Blazers don't have an option to play their most talented players the most minutes at the positions they would be average sized at. So the Blazers will be undersized up and down the roster. The Blazer will be forced to play small, play with 3 or 4 guard lineups. Maybe the Blazers will have success at that; its just very different than Cronin statements at the trade deadline or many fans posts of the downsides of Norm playing the majority of his minutes at SF.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Probably fine to have a single player slide up to a bigger position where they play small.

But the Blazers have nearly the whole roster that has to slide up to positions their undersized at. Ant has to slide up to SG because we have the supermax Dame. Hart has to slide up to SF because we have Ant at SG, and no established SF. Little has to slide up to PF because we have all these guards that need minutes at SF. Grant likely has to slide to backup center because we only have one legit injury prone center who's averaged 27mpg as a Blazer.

The Blazers don't have an option to play their most talented players the most minutes at the positions they would be average sized at. So the Blazers will be undersized up and down the roster. The Blazer will be forced to play small, play with 3 or 4 guard lineups. Maybe the Blazers will have success at that; its just very different than Cronin statements at the trade deadline or many fans posts of the downsides of Norm playing the majority of his minutes at SF.
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They don't have an option to start Dame, Hart, Little/Winslow, Grant, Nurk?
None of those starters needs to slide up a position.

Same with the bench. You could very easily have the 2nd unit of Ant, SS, Little/Winslow, Watford, Eubanks. Yes Gp2 will be in that unit and he is undersized, but as you said a single-player sliding up is not an issue.
 
SIeepwalker said:
Not really. Nobody pays someone 25M/y to come off the bench
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Most players getting 25 million are not 23 years old, and have only really produced for 1 season.
It will not be a problem as long as he is getting the minutes.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
They don't have an option to start Dame, Hart, Little/Winslow, Grant, Nurk?
None of those starters needs to slide up a position.

Same with the bench. You could very easily have the 2nd unit of Ant, SS, Little/Winslow, Watford, Eubanks. Yes Gp2 will be in that unit and he is undersized, but as you said a single-player sliding up is not an issue.
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No your lineup with Hart as the primary SG and Simons put on the bench is not feasible.

How does the team play Dame 35-40 minutes at PG, Hart 30+ minutes at SG, Simons only 8-13 minutes as a backup point guard making $100 milli0n? He needs to play much more. Not to mention two more guards in Payton with ~20 minutes, and still a few Sharpe developmental minutes? That isn't possible.

Some of those guards have to slide over to SF or PF, Simons has to slide up to SG, Little/Winslow have to slide up to PF, and Grant/Watford have to slide up to center. That is the only way to get the Blazers most talented players the most minutes.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Probably fine to have a single player slide up to a bigger position where they play small.

But the Blazers have nearly the whole roster that has to slide up to positions their undersized at. Ant has to slide up to SG because we have the supermax Dame. Hart has to slide up to SF because we have Ant at SG, and no established SF. Little has to slide up to PF because we have all these guards that need minutes at SF. Grant likely has to slide to backup center because we only have one legit injury prone center who's averaged 27mpg as a Blazer.

The Blazers don't have an option to play their most talented players the most minutes at the positions they would be average sized at. So the Blazers will be undersized up and down the roster. The Blazer will be forced to play small, play with 3 or 4 guard lineups. Maybe the Blazers will have success at that; its just very different than Cronin statements at the trade deadline or many fans posts of the downsides of Norm playing the majority of his minutes at SF.
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IDK?
I just gave an example of them playing big that is very plausible and effective both on offense and defense. Lillart, Hart, Little/Grant, Grant/Eubanks and Nurk. Bring Ant off the bench with GP2. Throw in Watford and or Johnson. That's a 10 man rotation and doesn't even bring in the rookie Sharp. This nonsense about the Blazers being small is overblown in my opinion.
 
SIeepwalker said:
Not really. Nobody pays someone 25M/y to come off the bench
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Doesn't have to happen every game. If Chauncey is going to make decisions to win games then he will have to make hard decisions. The team needs to play to win this year.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
No your lineup with Hart as the primary SG and Simons put on the bench is not feasible.

How does the team play Dame 35-40 minutes at PG, Hart 30+ minutes at SG, Simons only 8-13 minutes as a backup point guard making $100 milli0n? He needs to play much more. Not to mention two more guards in Payton with ~20 minutes, and still a few Sharpe developmental minutes? That isn't possible.

Some of those guards have to slide over to SF or PF, Simons has to slide up to SG, Little/Winslow have to slide up to PF, and Grant/Watford have to slide up to center. That is the only way to get the Blazers most talented players the most minutes.
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I agree that Gp2 creates a headache for Chauncey allocating minutes. Without him, I could see a rotation between Dame, Hart, Ant, and Little for 3 positions. That is 36 minutes each, which is too many minutes for all of them until the playoffs. So adding some more depth with GP2 does complicate things. But my point is still valid, we don't have to slide everyone up a position if we don't want to. We do have some flexibility with players who can play multiple positions though.

Having said that I still want another big on the team.
 
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