Gary "Hard Cap" Payton

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We have four guards in Dame, Simons, Payton, and Hart all expecting regular minutes. Two of them likely will often play 35-40 minutes. There is no way the other two only play 8-13 minutes. Thus some of these guards have to play minutes at forward.

That would assume 0 minutes for Sharpe (another guard) and 0 minutes for Keon (another guard). The idea that the Blazers won't go small or have 3 guard lineups is ridiculous.

I'm not saying those lineups will fail or the Blazers won't win games. Maybe it'll work great. I'm just saying this team is still going to have extensive stretches of 3 guard lineups just as they had with Dame, CJ and Norm starting last year. This is contrary to Cronin statements at the trade deadline of the 3 guard lineups not being his preference.
 
Personally I expect Hart to start at SF and get virtually all his minutes there; Payton to backup both Dame/Simons, and Sharpe get what ever bits are left over. I'm fine with that and think its likely the best way to put the most winning players on the court together.

We will see what happens in the season. Simons coming off the bench or other strange rotations are just not going to happen IMO.

This roster is built to go small for the majority of the game.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
We have four guards in Dame, Simons, Payton, and Hart all expecting regular minutes. Two of them likely will often play 35-40 minutes. There is no way the other two only play 8-13 minutes. Thus some of these guards have to play minutes at forward.

That would assume 0 minutes for Sharpe (another guard) and 0 minutes for Keon (another guard). The idea that the Blazers won't go small or have 3 guard lineups is ridiculous.

I'm not saying those lineups will fail or the Blazers won't win games. Maybe it'll work great. I'm just saying this team is still going to have extensive stretches of 3 guard lineups just as they had with Dame, CJ and Norm starting last year. This is contrary to Cronin statements at the trade deadline of the 3 guard lineups not being his preference.
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Keon needs to go. Unless Sharpe looks so raw that he won’t crack the rotation for years.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
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Is anyone else confused by that quote?

"He just does nothing on offense, and never plays"?

Is he saying that as in he's not a "wow!" offensive player (scoring lots) and doesn't play big minutes?
 
julius said:
I love his defensive intensity, but we all know he won't be getting away with that as a Blazer.
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good point, we'll have to see if the refs were partial tot he warriors or if they respect GP's defense.
 
Hoopguru said:
good point, we'll have to see if the refs were partial tot he warriors or if they respect GP's defense.
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He might be having to make up for the many sins of his fellow defenders. Specifically the guards.

Defense is as much team oriented as anything else. Easier to freelance and be care free on that side when everyone is bought in.
 
https://www.audacy.com/957thegame/s...-payton-ii-says-damian-lillard-is-like-family

“Dame – he’s like family,” Payton said earlier this week. “He’s helped me before I got in the league and he helped me during the league. Anything I need, a workout, knowledge of the game or questions, I know that I can call him or text him.”
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I forgot where I read this as well, but someone wrote an article basically quoting Goodwin (Dame's agent) saying that Dame was the one pushing for Payton's signing. So if you want to blame being hard capped on anyone, it's Dame.
 
B-Roy said:
https://www.audacy.com/957thegame/s...-payton-ii-says-damian-lillard-is-like-family



I forgot where I read this as well, but someone wrote an article basically quoting Goodwin (Dame's agent) saying that Dame was the one pushing for Payton's signing. So if you want to blame being hard capped on anyone, it's Dame.
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I like Payton. I like adding him..... but Dame the GM really hasn't done us any favors, imo.

I think that's why it rubbed me the wrong way a bit last summer when there were all those rumors about him wanting out. I think he's just as much to blame for keeping our treadmill team together as long as we did.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I like Payton. I like adding him..... but Dame the GM really hasn't done us any favors, imo.

I think that's why it rubbed me the wrong way a bit last summer when there were all those rumors about him wanting out. I think he's just as much to blame for keeping our treadmill team together as long as we did.
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I respect how the Heat basically put LeBron in his place when he was there, said no we are in charge and doing X Y Z.

Players should play, coaches coach, and managers manage. We don't need a bunch of players with 0 scouting experience, 0 player evaluation experience, 0 trade experience leading a franchises long term roster decisions. As much as I rip on Cronin, at least he is a GM with many years of industry experience.

You'd never have a GM put on a players jersey and go on the floor trying to do his job. So why do people think a player can do the GM's job?
 
illmatic99 said:
well shit. my avatar curse thing has failed me two consecutive times this year with Cronin and Bledsoe.

@PtldPlatypus y'all owe me for this shit.
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So...uh...who you gonna switch to now? Anyone on our roster you're looking to jettison at this point? Louzada maybe?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
So...uh...who you gonna switch to now? Anyone on our roster you're looking to jettison at this point? Louzada maybe?
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i don't think it has any juice anymore bro. didi is irrelevant.

lemme try bert (i think he's actually in vegas repping our franchise at the board of governors meetings this week). had enough of him.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
I like Payton. I like adding him..... but Dame the GM really hasn't done us any favors, imo.

I think that's why it rubbed me the wrong way a bit last summer when there were all those rumors about him wanting out. I think he's just as much to blame for keeping our treadmill team together as long as we did.
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I blame Dame 0%. Him wanting to stay in Portland is very admirable. Him wanting to make as much money as he can is reasonable. Him wanting to have a say in team matters is understandable.

But him asking and him GETTING aren't the same thing.

Dame doesn't know anything about how to win an NBA championship nor how to build an NBA roster. He presumably doesn't know much about salary cap management.

But even if he did know all of the rules and all of the nuances and had great strategy and excellent tactics... he's a player. He's going to be around as a Blazer for five or six more years of consequence under the happiest of paths. The GM and management need to take present into account while understanding that the franchise is not going to turn into a pumpkin when a player retires or otherwise leaves the team.

That means examining trades that are best for the team (not the key player, and not trying to help out outgoing players). It means understanding the future value of draft picks. It means managing extensions and contracts generally in a way where the franchise doesn't bid against itself.

Current management doesn't seem to be doing those things (or at least not very well). That's not Dame's fault.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
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Well that last duo is a hell of a trivia. Matt Guokas Sr played one season of BAA basketball in 1946-47 at the age of 31 averaging 1.7 points in 47 games (minutes were not tracked) for the Philadelphia Warriors in the first season of professional basketball. Over three rounds of the playoffs on his way to a title he totaled 4 points and 11 fouls.

The Warriors won the title over these iconic teams in the BAA league; the Providence Steamrollers, Toronto Huskies, Chicago Staggs, St Louis Bombers, Cleveland Rebels, Detroit Falcons, and Pittsburg Ironmen.

The Warriors were yes the same franchise that later moved to California. Also in the League that first year were the Boston Celtics and NY Knicks. There were no other current NBA teams.

Congrats to Matt Guokas Sr!!! NBA... errr BAA Champion!
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Well that last duo is a hell of a trivia. Matt Guokas Sr played one season of BAA basketball in 1946-47 at the age of 31 averaging 1.7 points in 47 games (minutes were not tracked) for the Philadelphia Warriors in the first season of professional basketball. Over three rounds of the playoffs on his way to a title he totaled 4 points and 11 fouls.

The Warriors won the title over these iconic teams in the BAA league; the Providence Steamrollers, Toronto Huskies, Chicago Staggs, St Louis Bombers, Cleveland Rebels, Detroit Falcons, and Pittsburg Ironmen.

The Warriors were yes the same franchise that later moved to California. Also in the League that first year were the Boston Celtics and NY Knicks. There were no other current NBA teams.

Congrats to Matt Guokas Sr!!! NBA... errr BAA Champion!
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Goukas was a good NBA on NBC commentator
 
Scalma said:
http://www.spotrac.com/spots/10-best-free-agent-and-extension-values-of-the-2022-offseason-1553/

View attachment 48804
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This is just lazy analysis. Sure, if you look at adding Payton in a vacuum it's a really solid signing. The problem isn't Payton as a player. I like adding him in theory.

The problem is that we're short as fuck.

The problem is that we're hard capped now.

The problem is that we have 7 or 8 guards.

You can't look at a free agent signing strictly from a dollar amount and stats. You have to look at fit, you have to look at salary cap impact, and rotation as well. This person clearly did not do that.
 
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