Give up on the thing that you value most?

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Further said:
It's because that sentiment is cause for many many deaths over the years. Want to know what beliefs you hold in common with terrorists? I'm not saying that the thought by itself is evil, but that thought in conjunction with us vs them mentality is at the root of millions of deaths. I know you will now bring up atheists that kill. But I'm not looking at religion vs no religion, I'm looking at extreme fundamentalist views. If you look at the Nazi's, they too hold the faith of their peoples above all else, so it's not just religious, it is the willingness to rank anything above the lives of innocent people. Call it faith in God or faith in the Blue eyed race, it's still ultimate faith that mixes with Us vs Them that results in annihilation of millions.
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Nope you are just saying, "you saw a black person that stole, so all black people are thieves".

Just because some Muslim faction, or even Christians have killed for what they thought was right; doesn't mean others will do the same. You conveniently group all in faith to a negative because you hold it no value.

You call yourself a Jew but act in athiesm. That is another "convenient" tradition; with no strings attached.

So before you are quick to judge one that believes so much in their faith that they are willing to die for it; look to what is more valuable to you? You want laughter? Christ, yes because you only care about yourself.
 
magnifier661 said:
Nope you are just saying, "you saw a black person that stole, so all black people are thieves".

Just because some Muslim faction, or even Christians have killed for what they thought was right; doesn't mean others will do the same. You conveniently group all in faith to a negative because you hold it no value.

You call yourself a Jew but act in athiesm. That is another "convenient" tradition; with no strings attached.

So before you are quick to judge one that believes so much in their faith that they are willing to die for it; look to what is more valuable to you? You want laughter? Christ, yes because you only care about yourself.
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Aside from on this forum, I don't really call myself either a Jew or an Atheist, I just believe what I believe. If in a discussion with someone about it, I'll use those terms to explain, but that's it. What do I consider myself? Both.

The humor answer was me trying to find something that I most valued, but I would not put that ahead of the lives of loved ones. Perhaps myself, if I could not find humor anymore, I would rather be dead, but I would never choose humor over the lives of others.

If you read what I wrote in my last post, I did not say faith alone was the cause of evil, I said faith along with certain perspectives, us vs them, that can be a foundation for brutality. Fact is throughout history this has been the case. I think unwavering faith is dangerous. I think it can be manipulated by others who claim knowledge of what your faith requires. Faith is the fulcrum by which powerful people exert pressure on the masses.
 
magnifier661 said:
Of all the values (family members or physical items don't apply) you hold dear; which one would you not give up no matter what?

Mine is my faith in Christ.

How about you kids?
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I would argue "faith in Christ" is in the same category as family members or physical items. It's an empirical belief you value, not a "value" in itself in the sense you are intending to ask about. In other words it's obviously not something you think is in any way dependent on subjective personal moral or aesthetic judgment.
 
Further said:
Aside from on this forum, I don't really call myself either a Jew or an Atheist, I just believe what I believe. If in a discussion with someone about it, I'll use those terms to explain, but that's it. What do I consider myself? Both.

The humor answer was me trying to find something that I most valued, but I would not put that ahead of the lives of loved ones. Perhaps myself, if I could not find humor anymore, I would rather be dead, but I would never choose humor over the lives of others.

If you read what I wrote in my last post, I did not say faith alone was the cause of evil, I said faith along with certain perspectives, us vs them, that can be a foundation for brutality. Fact is throughout history this has been the case. I think unwavering faith is dangerous. I think it can be manipulated by others who claim knowledge of what your faith requires. Faith is the fulcrum by which powerful people exert pressure on the masses.
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I think I've already proven that I'm not one that follows the herd when it involves faith. I do find it very offensive that you claim my value is sick "in your words". I think that was a very arrogant statement by your part
 
crowTrobot said:
I would argue "faith in Christ" is in the same category as family members or physical items. It's an empirical belief you value, not a "value" in itself in the sense you are intending to ask about. In other words it's obviously not something you think is in any way dependent on subjective personal moral or aesthetic judgment.
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Your argument is noted... I would respond by saying "you don't believe in Christ, therefor you consider it a moral value by those that do".

Even though my faith is a relationship like one I would have with my child; the label is still a moral value.
 
magnifier661 said:
I think I've already proven that I'm not one that follows the herd when it involves faith. I do find it very offensive that you claim my value is sick "in your words". I think that was a very arrogant statement by your part
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It probably is arrogant and most likely something I should keep to myself.
 
Further said:
So mags, you are saying that with a gun to your head, or worse, a gun to the head of a family member, you would choose faith over their life?
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I think these are two very different questions.

If faced with to choice to deny God and live or praise Him and die, I choose the latter.

If another person's well-being is at stake, then I sacrifice what I want for what they need.

Pretty simple, really.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I think these are two very different questions.

If faced with to choice to deny God and live or praise Him and die, I choose the latter.

If another person's well-being is at stake, then I sacrifice what I want for what they need.

Pretty simple, really.
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That's why I asked the question that way. I feel that way about certain rights like freedom of speech for example. With a gun to my head, I would continue to speak, but put others at risk and I would quickly allow myself to be censored.
 
magnifier661 said:
Your argument is noted... I would respond by saying "you don't believe in Christ, therefor you consider it a moral value by those that do".
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I don't think belief or disbelief in the divinity of Jesus is a moral value. That would be pretty nonsensical.

Even though my faith is a relationship like one I would have with my child; the label is still a moral value.
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You (presumably) think your relationship with Jesus is objectively real - not just something you hold dear because of subjective personal moral or aesthetic judgment, which is what you are asking about in the OP.

It would be a bit more meaningful answer if you said you value faith itself (faith is a virtue).
 
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Portland Trailblazers. Other than that, everything else is for sale.
 
tlongII said:
I would never give up on my fervent belief that there is no such thing as Christ.
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That is most strange. If you don't belief in Christ, how is there any thing to give up?

Or do you have an active identifiable resolve not to believe in Christ? If so then why would you have a tangible resolve that you could give up, in something that you know does not exist?

Some thing is working over time for no gain. You best check on the content of that bag.
 
magnifier661 said:
Sorry to make you sad. But I would assume you wouldn't understand, since you are without this faith. For those that have it; there really isn't anything that could pursued you otherwise. You actually feel the presence of God.

And the question isn't finding proof something doesn't or does exist. Its someone putting a gun to your head and telling you "You are going to die unless you stop valuing this!"




What would you die for?
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Very well stated Mags. I can not envision ever walking without Christs love. Every day I receive blessings and guidance.
 
My belief that Haruhi will one day return, believe brothers!

[video=youtube;y4Bl6BHXqUg]
 
santeesioux said:
My belief that Haruhi will one day return, believe brothers!

[video=youtube;y4Bl6BHXqUg]
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You, sir, win one internets. Love Haruhi (I also love how the opening credits is practically designed to look like shit on youtube). You should find and watch "Hyouka" and "Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions!" -- both reminded me a bit of Haruhi in spirit without the pandering.
 
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magnifier661 said:
Of all the values (family members or physical items don't apply) you hold dear; which one would you not give up no matter what?

Mine is my faith in Christ.

How about you kids?
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That's admirable and I concur. Jesus for the WIN!
 
DaLincolnJones said:
I am proud that you would take this stand, and I admire you for it. Not many in your position do. Bravo.
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Thanks. Yourself aswell. And on that note:


Matthew 10:33 ESV

But whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
 
OneLifeToLive said:
Thanks. Yourself aswell. And on that note:


Matthew 10:33 ESV

But whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
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Amen. I love the book of Matthew. I think with that one book alone you can address the entire human condition.
 
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