Guns Make People Safe

[rasheedfan2005]

As long as I live I will never understand the raw sexual passion people have in this country for guns. It can't possibly be that they actually BELIEVE that more guns = fewer deaths, because that's crazy (see numbers of Americans killed by actual toddlers). So I guess the argument is:
1. We need our guns to fight the gub'mint. Remember, the NAZIS TOOK AWAY GUNS FIRST!
Response: I don't think guns will slow down the gub'mint much. But I'm sure the NRA is working to expand the right to include shoulder-fired missiles and small nuclear devices.
2. There are already so many (beautiful, sexy) guns in this country that you can't disarm people, so the only way for the rest of us to be safe is if we arm EVERYBODY.
Response: Every household in Switzerland has a rifle but somehow they manage it. Maybe look into it? How did Japan do it?
3. No really, we're actually safer because of our guns!
Response:

4. But suicides don't count!
Response: why the fuck not? What if people kill themselves because it's so fucking easy, whereas they might be more likely to work through it without guns? Otherwise are you saying that life is so miserable in the US that so many more people want to kill themselves? And anyway, the US still wins handily with homicides.
5. It's in the CONSTITUTION, snowflake!
Response: sure, so what? God didn't write the constitution. There are a few embarrassing things in that thing that got changed. And besides, the reason for the second amendment is pretty shady.

if a gun owner commits suicide that's one less gun owner. why you mad?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I applaud the Repubs for removing this "mental health" restriction on gun ownership. It shows they've thought things through. Because really, insatiable love of guns is obviously SOME kind of mental disorder and blocking "mentally unsound" people from buying guns is really a slippery slope to banning everybody who subscribes to "Guns and Ammo" somewhere down the line.

It's good to see the Republicans as champions of the rights that count. Next time when I see the clearly mentally ill homeless people pacing around the streets of my city I'll feel a little better. "No, the Repubs will always work to slash your social services, so there's nowhere for you to live and noone will give you mental health services, BUT! If you panhandle enough money YOU CAN BUY A GUN NOW! AND nobody will be allowed to stop you taking it into schools, too!

Oh, but don't try taking it to Donald Trump's inauguration, because that's just not safe."

 

[Jade Falcon]

Okay, so you fine with some of the regulations and laws we have now or you don't think there shouldn't be any laws or regulations? No asking if there should be new laws or regulations.

It depends on the law or regulation.

Requiring a background check when I go to an FFL to buy a new gun, that's fine.

Requiring me to get a background check for a box of ammo when I go to Walmart (California)....that's asinine and stupid.

The same applies when it comes to FOID cards (Illinois), which you MUST have before you can purchase a gun OR ammunition.

No criminal is going to obey those. They only affect the law-abiding.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It depends on the law or regulation.

Now we're getting somewhere. So there are some laws and regulations that make sense to you.

There are some on here that believe felons and illegals should be allowed to own guns.

 

[Tweak]

Do you believe in any regulations concerning guns? Some don't, some do.

Regulations and laws such as prohibiting felons, domestic violence offenders from possessing firearms are the 1st that come to mind. If they would actually enforce them. Feel good legislation such as Oregons background check law that many of the legislators that backed it actually agreed that it would do absolutely nothing to curb "gun violence" but WE HAVE To DO SOMETHING! Quotation marks because if someone is stabbed or bludgeoned to death, it's not called knife or baseball bat violence. A deranged criminal did this not the gun, knife or bat.

Another one that comes to mind is Diane Feinstein's last attempt at an "assault" weapon ban. Her and her comrades simply paged through a gun catalog and added all the scary looking ones to the list of proposed banned guns.

Chicago one of the most violent cities in the country and also has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country. The gun control lobby says its because the firearms are being brought in from neighboring states that don't have those laws. Hmm. Why don't those neighboring states have the same problems? Because it's a people problem.

It's a no-brainer, enact laws such as the background check law and law abiding citizens abide by it, criminals don't. That's why they're criminals. We have 26000-28000 gun laws on the books, do we need more or maybe just start enforcing the ones we have?

 

[Jade Falcon]

I applaud the Repubs for removing this "mental health" restriction on gun ownership. It shows they've thought things through. Because really, insatiable love of guns is obviously SOME kind of mental disorder and blocking "mentally unsound" people from buying guns is really a slippery slope to banning everybody who subscribes to "Guns and Ammo" somewhere down the line.

It's good to see the Republicans as champions of the rights that count. Next time when I see the clearly mentally ill homeless people pacing around the streets of my city I'll feel a little better. "No, the Repubs will always work to slash your social services, so there's nowhere for you to live and noone will give you mental health services, BUT! If you panhandle enough money YOU CAN BUY A GUN NOW! AND nobody will be allowed to stop you taking it into schools, too!

Oh, but don't try taking it to Donald Trump's inauguration, because that's just not safe."

More asinine bullshit from you. If you are so much of a threat to yourself or those around you that you need to be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility, you cannot buy a firearm. The 4473 form that you fill out at your FFL is very clear on this. If the court knows about it (which most cases of involuntary commitment to a mental health facility are orders from), then it shows up in your background check. Period.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Regulations and laws such as prohibiting felons, domestic violence offenders from possessing firearms are the 1st that come to mind. If they would actually enforce them. Feel good legislation such as Oregons background check law that many of the legislators that backed it actually agreed that it would do absolutely nothing to curb "gun violence" but WE HAVE TO SOMETHING! Quotation marks because if someone is stabbed or bludgeoned to death, it's not called knife or baseball bat violence. A deranged criminal did this not the gun, knife or bat.

Another one that comes to mind is Diane Feinstein's last attempt at an "assault" weapon ban. Her and her comrades simply paged through a gun catalog and added all the scary looking ones to the list of proposed banned guns.

Chicago one of the most violent cities in the country and also has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country. The gun control lobby says its because the firearms are being brought in from neighboring states that don't have those laws. Hmm. Why don't those neighboring states have the same problems? Because it's a people problem.

It's a no-brainer, enact laws such as the background check law and law abiding citizens abide by it, criminals don't. That's why they're criminals. We have 26000-28000 gun laws on the books, do we need more or maybe just start enforcing the ones we have?

Well said.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Regulations and laws such as prohibiting felons, domestic violence offenders from possessing firearms are the 1st that come to mind. If they would actually enforce them. Feel good legislation such as Oregons background check law that many of the legislators that backed it actually agreed that it would do absolutely nothing to curb "gun violence" but WE HAVE TO SOMETHING! Quotation marks because if someone is stabbed or bludgeoned to death, it's not called knife or baseball bat violence. A deranged criminal did this not the gun, knife or bat.

Another one that comes to mind is Diane Feinstein's last attempt at an "assault" weapon ban. Her and her comrades simply paged through a gun catalog and added all the scary looking ones to the list of proposed banned guns.

Chicago one of the most violent cities in the country and also has some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country. The gun control lobby says its because the firearms are being brought in from neighboring states that don't have those laws. Hmm. Why don't those neighboring states have the same problems? Because it's a people problem.

It's a no-brainer, enact laws such as the background check law and law abiding citizens abide by it, criminals don't. That's why they're criminals. We have 26000-28000 gun laws on the books, do we need more or maybe just start enforcing the ones we have?

Gun laws are enforced. If a felon is caught with a gun whether or not he or she has done anything else illegal in Oregon they go to prison for 5 years.

Saying that gun laws don't prevent criminals from getting a gun is a false argument. That's like saying rape laws don't work because people still rape so we should get rid of rape laws. Many laws were never designed to prevent crime, but to punish the person after the crime is committed.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Illegal immigration laws don't prevent illegal immigration so we should get rid of them. Bad laws.

 

[Tweak]

I have a CHL I've taken firearm safety courses, been checked out by everyone from county Pds to the FBI. In the majority of states the background check is waived if you have a valid carry permit. Oregon wants my $10 though.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Now we're getting somewhere. So there are some laws and regulations that make sense to you.

There are some on here that believe felons and illegals should be allowed to own guns.

Just be sure you take my entire post into context.

And NO, nobody on here believes illegals and felons should own guns. I've not seen one post on this entire forum that says that.

Gun laws are enforced. If a felon is caught with a gun whether or not he or she has done anything else in Oregon they go to prison for 5 years.

Saying that gun laws don't prevent criminals from getting a gun is a false argument. That's like saying rape laws don't work because people still rape so we should get rid of rape laws. Many laws were never designed to prevent crime, but to punish the person after the crime is committed.

Tell that to gang bangers in Chicago. Most of them are felons, but it doesn't stop them from getting a gun.

Many laws were never designed to prevent crime, but to punish the person after the crime is committed.

Then the courts need to start prosecuting criminals using laws that are already on the books, and stop making more of them until they do.

What's the point in making more laws if you're not going to enforce them?

 

[Sedatedfork]

OK, you got us. We are coming for your guns. Just turn then in now and no one will get hurt.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Speaking of guns, can I just say....this new CZ P10C makes my trousers tight....







That barrel is thick as hell.

This could be the new Glock 19 killer.

I can't wait to see MAC put it through the gauntlet in the Spring.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

And NO, nobody on here believes illegals and felons should own guns. I've not seen one post on this entire forum that says that.

I pretty sure @MARIS61 believes in no gun laws whatsoever.

Tell that to gang bangers in Chicago. Most of them are felons, but it doesn't stop them from getting a gun.

Then the courts need to start prosecuting criminals using laws that are already on the books, and stop making more of them until they do.

I would imagine that gang bangers are charged and prosecuted in Illinois if they are caught with a gun. I know in Oregon if a felon, gang affiliated or not, is caught with a gun they are arrested and prosecuted. They are using the laws already on the books.

 

[Sedatedfork]

C'mon. Turn them in. I know Karate.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I pretty sure @MARIS61 believes in no gun laws whatsoever.



I would imagine that gang bangers are charged and prosecuted in Illinois if they are caught with a gun. I know in Oregon if a felon, gang affiliated or not, is caught with a gun they are arrested and prosecuted. They are using the laws already on the books.

Saying that Maris does not believe in any further gun laws means that he believes that illegals and felons should have guns (your words) is bullshit Sly, and you know it. I'm surprised I need to explain that to you.

I would imagine that gang bangers are charged and prosecuted in Illinois if they are caught with a gun.

Chicago is notorious for having a revolving door of felons and criminals in the Justice System because of political bias, PC feelings (appeasing community leaders), gross over-population of jails and prisons, lack of LE/jail staff personnel, and overall lax control of its current enforcement of laws.

Everyone knows this, and it's far from a mystery.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Saying that Maris does not believe in any further gun laws means that he believes that illegals and felons should have guns (your words) is bullshit Sly, and you know it. I'm surprised I need to explain that to you.

Ask him. I've had these very same discussions with @MARIS61 and @MarAzul. MarAzul doesn't believe felons or illegals should have guns but he does believe he should be able to loan or give anyone a gun without question. I'm not just making up shit about Maris, if I'm mistaken I'll admit it.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Chicago is notorious for having a revolving door of felons and criminals in the Justice System because of political bias, PC feelings (appeasing community leaders), gross over-population of jails and prisons, lack of LE/jail staff personnel, and overall lax control of its current enforcement of laws.

Everyone knows this, and it's far from a mystery.

Top result in a google search turned up this.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/gun-shy-lighter-sentences-in-cook-county-fuel-lock-em-up-debate/

You are partially correct, it appears that judges are giving the minimum prison sentence to criminals with guns instead of the maximum.

What is interesting is that you seem to be advocating for increased penalties for a criminal in possession of a gun.

I support this.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Ask him. I've had these very same discussions with @MARIS61 and @MarAzul. MarAzul doesn't believe felons or illegals should have guns but he does believe he should be able to loan or give anyone a gun without question. I'm not just making up shit about Maris, if I'm mistaken I'll admit it.

MOST gun owners feel that they should be able to loan their private property to those WHOM THEY TRUST without question. It's MY private property, and I'm hardly going to just give it to some crack head on the corner.

Loaning a gun to a family member or TRUSTED, RESPONSIBLE friend is MY business. Not the government's.

Contrary to popular Leftist belief, this does NOT mean that gun owners condone giving guns away to strangers for free. That's strait up bullshit.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Top result in a google search turned up this.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/gun-shy-lighter-sentences-in-cook-county-fuel-lock-em-up-debate/

You are partially correct, it appears that judges are giving the minimum prison sentence to criminals with guns instead of the maximum.

What is interesting is that you seem to be advocating for increased penalties for a criminal in possession of a gun.

I support this.

Negative. I'm supporting that they be prosecuted at the Federal Level using laws that are already on the books, and using sentences that COUNT. Not 5 year stints with parole in 2.

Put these bastards away for a mandatory 10 or 15, and get them out of our society. There's no parole at the Federal level.

 

[Tweak]

MOST gun owners feel that they should be able to loan their private property to those WHOM THEY TRUST without question. It's MY private property, and I'm hardly going to just give it to some crack head on the corner.

Loaning a gun to a family member or TRUSTED, RESPONSIBLE friend is MY business. Not the government's.

Contrary to popular Leftist belief, this does NOT mean that gun owners condone giving guns away to strangers for free. That's strait up bullshit.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

MOST gun owners feel that they should be able to loan their private property to those WHOM THEY TRUST without question. It's MY private property, and I'm hardly going to just give it to some crack head on the corner.

Loaning a gun to a family member or TRUSTED, RESPONSIBLE friend is MY business. Not the government's.

Contrary to popular Leftist belief, this does NOT mean that gun owners condone giving guns away to strangers for free. That's strait up bullshit.

And if that trusted friend or family member is a felon?

 

[Jade Falcon]

And if that trusted friend or family member is a felon?

I'll know about it, and I won't give it to them. In fact, it wouldn't even be a conversation with me.

ETA: I don't personally associate with Felons, so any family member who is wouldn't get so much as a conversation from me except at family gatherings, and no friend is a friend of mine who has a felony record.

That eliminates 99% of the issue right there.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

And if that trusted friend or family member is a felon?

If that family member is here illegally?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'll know about it, and I won't give it to them. In fact, it wouldn't even be a conversation with me.

Just because you're responsible doesn't mean that everyone else is.

 

[Zachnsalem]

But I'm sure the NRA is working to expand the right to include shoulder-fired missiles and small nuclear devices.

The 2nd Amendment applies to both Naval Ships and Cannons.

The Brown Bess was .75 Caliber rendering it a Title II Weapon more specifically a "destructive device" in the same group as grenades, mortars, rocket launchers, large projectiles, and other heavy ordnance nowadays.

People owned grenades, mortars at the time also. (I'm joking)

Every household in Switzerland has a rifle but somehow they manage it. Maybe look into it?

• Switzerland's carry laws are highly regulated and very restricted. Other than militia members transporting their firearms on their way to militia training, very few people are allowed to actually carry firearms. And they cannot be loaded.
• Despite the militia requirement in Switzerland, the rate of gun ownership (by percentage) in the United States is much higher than in Switzerland.
• The vast majority of militia members are not even allowed to store ammo at home. And for the 2000 or so--that's right only 2000--militia members who do have ammo, it is sealed and inspected regularly.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/2/28/1190586/-Some-Truth-About-Switzerland-and-Guns

If Switzerland "manages" it so well why are they still 3rd on the chart for deaths?

After all these laws apply to the entire country, is it the 2000 Militia Members killing themselves?

How did Japan do it?

Japan literally did what all the gun nuts are afraid of and the government went around collecting all of peoples weapons so they couldn't be used in a coupe against the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_hunt http://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/japan.php

3. No really, we're actually safer because of our guns!
Response:

And anyway, the US still wins handily with homicides.

USA wins handily at most things when you compare them to countries are 1/30th their population.

Jim Jefferies

I actually like Jim a lot, do you know if he's come out with anything new? I think the last one I saw was about his baby.

 

[Tweak]

Exactly. I can't offhand think of anything else that we would own that we're prohibited from giving or loaning to friend or family.

I may be wrong but I've always been under the assumption that it's a crime to knowingly transfer a firearm to a person prohibited to possess one. I've always operated that way anyway because it's just common sense and in the past I have backed out of sales if I felt that something wasn't quite right. Up until the enactment of the latest back ground check farce there was an option to have checks done for private sales no paper work involved, which was nice if you had any doubts. I believe that option was taken away. I know a lot of people in recent years would only sell to those with CHL
I was quoting Jade Falcons post but for some reason the quote posted 5-6 posts ago.

 

[Jade Falcon]

If that family member is here illegally?

Nope. All of my family was born in this country legally, and they have NO ties to illegal immigrants.

Just because you're responsible doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Not everyone who has a car is responsible either. But there's no background check to purchase a car. AND it's legal.

And a car that is abused can easily kill someone.

To quote an edited part of my above post:

I don't personally associate with Felons, so any family member who is wouldn't get so much as a conversation from me except at family gatherings, and no friend is a friend of mine who has a felony record.

That eliminates 99% of the issue right there.

You'll find this the case with most gun owners in this country.

Unfortunately, yes, there are some irresponsible gun owners out there. But a background check can't find "irresponsible" if it's not on a person's criminal record.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

All of my family was born in this country legally

Everyone born in this country is born here legally.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Speaking of guns, can I just say....this new CZ P10C makes my trousers tight....







That barrel is thick as hell.

This could be the new Glock 19 killer.

I can't wait to see MAC put it through the gauntlet in the Spring.

Jesus, get a room.