Hart to Start

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Do you expect Ant to only play when Dame is off the court? How many (or few) mpg do you think Ant should be given?
No but in staggered rotations I expect a pt of attack defender to be on the court and so far the Dame Ant combo isn't floating my boat...Ant is way too passive with Dame out there...I don't want to dig holes early in games like last season.
 
Malcolm Brogdan will be getting paid 300k more than Ant next year and he's gonna be a bench player.

Jordan Poole will be the 6th man on his team and also get a max deal.

There's your precedence if you really need it.

I don't necessarily think moving Ant to the bench is the end all be all solution, but it at least needs to be an option.
 
Example rotations:

Start: Dame/Hart/Winslow/Grant/Nurk

6 min mark 1st quarter -- sub Ant for Hart; Nas for Winslow; Watford for Nurk
(Dame/Ant/Nas/Grant/Watford)

3 min mark 1st quarter -- sub GP2 for Dame; Sharpe for Grant
(Ant/GP2/Sharpe/Nas/Watford)

9 min mark 2nd quarter: Sub Nurk for Watford, Hart for Sharpe
(Ant/GP2/Hart/Nas/Nurk)

6 min mark 2nd quarter: Sub Dame for Ant; Grant for Nas
(Dame/GP2/ Hart/Grant/Nurk)

3 min mark 2nd quarter: Sub Ant for GP2; Winslow for Nurk.
(Dame/Ant/Hart/Winslow/Grant)


In the first half, this rotation would approx translate to:

Dame - 15 min
Ant - 15 min
Hart - 15 min
Grant - 15 min
Nurk - 12 min
Nas- 12 min
GP2 - 9 min
Winslow - 9 min
Sharpe - 6 min

Closely repeat in the 2nd half the same cycle but bring back Dame/Ant early so they can get ~ 3 extra minutes to end with 33 each. Take those 6 minutes from Hart/Nas/GP2 in the second half.

That second half sounds much more realistic; they each play 18 minutes; 12 minutes they play together and 12 minutes they play solo. Why not just do the same thing with both of them starting?

0min Dame & Ant Start
6min Ant sits (Both have played 6 mins)
10min Ant replace Dame (Dame 10min Ant 6)
16 min Dame replace Ant (Dame 10 min Ant 12)
18 min Ant joins (Both 12 mins - final 6 together)

Both players get their 36 minutes. If its a blowout both sit the final 6+ minutes and only play 30 minutes.

Ginobili didn't start many years; but those years he played well under 30 mpg and the Spurs were loaded with deep starting talent.

Bringing Simons off the bench doesn't improve the defense or change the dynamic of the team unless his minutes get cut to under 30mpg.
 
Malcolm Brogdan will be getting paid 300k more than Ant next year and he's gonna be a bench player.

Jordan Poole will be the 6th man on his team and also get a max deal.

There's your precedence if you really need it.

I don't necessarily think moving Ant to the bench is the end all be all solution, but it at least needs to be an option.

So the two teams in the finals that are loaded and deep into the tax. One with a historic backcourt duo of Steph and Klay. The other added Brogdon to be a rotational piece, not one of their two primary players.

Those situations sound more similar to some years of the Spurs having Ginobili off the bench. Although many years Ginobili was a full time starter.

Thats a little different than the Blazers putting $100 million Simons on the bench for a lottery team to start a player in Winslow who is in his 8th season; has averages of 8ppg, shoots 41%/31%
 
How many teams have a player coming off the bench who averages more than a starter(pts/rebounds/assists) who the bench player could replace in that same position?

Forget about money for a moment.

im curious and have no idea.
 
How many teams have a player coming off the bench who averages more than a starter(pts/rebounds/assists) who the bench player could replace in that same position?

Forget about money for a moment.

im curious and have no idea.

Thats a bit too open of criteria; every team in the league would have likely one or more players who exceed a starter in points or rebounds or assists.
 
Hard for me to see many realstic scenariors where Hart is on the roster a year from now.

I like Hart, but the fit with Dame/Ant combined with our legit need at SF, on top of our shortcomings when it comes to bigs, make him a fairly obvious trade chip.
 
Can you give a couple examples? Im failing to really know of any.

Last year the Blazers had Simons with more assists than Powell
Little with more PPG than Covington

The Warriors had two sub forwards in Otto Porter and Kuminga both scoring more than Draymond.

The hard part is most the great bench players start significant portions of the season, and most the mediocre starters come off the bench for a lot of it; so its a hard comparison to make. Also hard to define the same position; as teams might switch a PG and Center for starts with every one else sliding a position.
 
Hard for me to see many realstic scenariors where Hart is on the roster a year from now.

I like Hart, but the fit with Dame/Ant combined with our legit need at SF, on top of our shortcomings when it comes to bigs, make him a fairly obvious trade chip.

Maybe we could trade him for Eric Bledose type contract that has $5 million of salary next year and Didi!

Then we won't lose Hart for nothing.
 
Last year the Blazers had Simons with more assists than Powell
Little with more PPG than Covington

The Warriors had two sub forwards in Otto Porter and Kuminga both scoring more than Draymond.

The hard part is most the great bench players start significant portions of the season, and most the mediocre starters come off the bench for a lot of it; so its a hard comparison to make. Also hard to define the same position; as teams might switch a PG and Center for starts with every one else sliding a position.

ahh i see you are picking the stats i noted apart. I meant in all three or i should have clarified better stats across the board. Significantly better stats. Or the obvious better player.

im in the “bring Ant off the bench” group personally, but im trying to see where that happens in other areas of the league.
 
Hart is a good player and has to claim the starting SF position, not just start. That's the only way I see him as a Blazer beyond this year. The fit beside Lillard and Simons is less of a concern, IMHO, than taking that position in no uncertain terms. With that said, like TINCE, I cannot see Hart on the Blazers after this season (and I do expect him gone by the trade deadline). His skills at both ends, the size of contract, and length of contract makes him THE player to trade whether in a significant package or alone. He has trade value. The back-up bigs need a serious upgrade in size with talent. The 3 needs an upgrade in size and talent. It goes through Hart. After Hart, it's between Winslow and Little with Little going out only in a significant package for a talent/size upgrade.

IMHO, the moves by Cronin, et.al. this summer -- GP2, Sharpe, and (to a lesser degree for now) Walker -- made trading Hart more likely as GP2 brings the D, Sharpe with better size and ceiling, and Walker with size and the beginnings of a multi-skilled, high IQ player. [The high value acquisition of Grant as a starter should solve one ongoing problem.]
 
Josh just so passive out there. Not contributing at all because he just keeps deferring. That's not the best way to maximize talent-- perhaps a bench role is the best for him.
This is the point I've tried to make, but said in a nice, calm manner, a skill which I clearly do not seem to possess.
 
This might go worse than the Powell debacle. At least Norm had a long wingspan.
 
Unfortunately Hart Little Winslow did nothing to clearly deserve the starting 3 so far.

I hope Nas breaks out. Maybe his underwhelming play is due to being sidelined for an extended period and simply needs more time to play up to his potential.

I don't think he's quite ready but I wanna see how Sharpe looks playing with Dame Ant Grant and Nurk. Not sure if that's been done in practice but I'm curious.
 
Seems so obvious Winslow is the best fit as starter
Winslow makes sure scoring at the hoop happens. Not by bulldozing to the hoop, but by passing to his teammates who know he can get them the ball for easy scores. Nobody gets better looks for Nurkic than Winslow. Winslow will dribble right up to Nurk and hand him the ball if he has to.
 
According to OLive….ha. 90% of the members here in ClownTown could have told you Chauncey was going to start him a month ago sir.
So after 3 days and 5 pages of posts it appears "Clown Town" is not exactly sure who should start even after O-Live has spoken.
 
Im thinking Josh Hart will perform at a very high level and a good percentage of it will be at the 2 position.
 
Notice what coaches they played for.

And the stacked teams they were on.
I mean bird, parish, etc.
mchale became a starter at 28 but had already made an all star team!
Some more notable bench players during their prime:

Jon Havlicek
Vinnie Johnson (closest Ant comp?)
Michael Cooper
Jamal Crawford
Lou Williams
Andre Iguodala

These players were considered the best or near best at something on their team, yet came off the bench most of thier careers.

I see no issue with Ant coming off the bench, but better yet, would like to see him in a trade to bring back an all star level pf, slide the rotation down and be alot bigger.
Ant+ for Siakim?
 
And the stacked teams they were on.
I mean bird, parish, etc.
mchale became a starter at 28 but had already made an all star team!
Some more notable bench players during their prime:

Jon Havlicek
Vinnie Johnson (closest Ant comp?)
Michael Cooper
Jamal Crawford
Lou Williams
Andre Iguodala

These players were considered the best or near best at something on their team, yet came off the bench most of thier careers.

I see no issue with Ant coming off the bench, but better yet, would like to see him in a trade to bring back an all star level pf, slide the rotation down and be alot bigger.
Ant+ for Siakim?

if it was Siakam I think the + would be too expensive

might be better if it was Ant + a pick for somebody like John Collins. Of course, I have no idea why Atlanta would want a Trae + Ant backcourt
 
if it was Siakam I think the + would be too expensive

might be better if it was Ant + a pick for somebody like John Collins. Of course, I have no idea why Atlanta would want a Trae + Ant backcourt

Ant/Winslow/Picks? I think You are right a out trae and Ant.
 
Dame/Keon/Payton
Hart/Payton/Sharpe
Grant/Little/Sharpe
Siakim/Walker/Watford
Nurk/Eubanks/Sarr

Could use one more solid contributor and i think thats a contender. Not favorites. Just a contender.
 
Simons/Little/Payton for Siakim works for the cap.
Is that too much?

i think we should try to do it.
 
Dame/Keon/Payton
Hart/Payton/Sharpe
Grant/Little/Sharpe
Siakim/Walker/Watford
Nurk/Eubanks/Sarr

Could use one more solid contributor and i think thats a contender. Not favorites. Just a contender.
Yeah. I figure contending is in the mix. 345 seed. Course you got to play defense and get past the first round.
 

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