Trade Hart/Winslow/Didi/Keon/pick or CJ/Norm/Nance/Roco?

[Rastapopoulos]

No.

You did watch pre-season, right?

 

[Hoopguru]

And we STILL have no path out of being mediocre. That's the point.

80% of the league is mediocre every year?

 

[Phatguysrule]

CJ for Hart, Sato, and the Lakers pick. Norm to Cleveland for their pick. Combine those deals and you still get a $20.8M TPE. Keep Nance.

I think we'd have gotten that for CJ in the first place if it were an option...

And who says Cleveland wants Norm or his contract?

You can't combine traded player exceptions, so then we wouldn't be able to go after Grant like Dame wants.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Putting a PF on a HOF PG. That there is some good coaching!

 

[blazerkor]

I don't think this is really as debatable as this forum tries to make it @THE HCP is right that if you think the assets we got back in return for the assets we sent out are even close to equal value, even close, you're making a fool of yourself. Now you guys love to spin it that we got to tank because of it and we made it so we could re-sign Ant (which nothing would have stopped us from doing before). Those aren't reasons that justify the trades. If the only real reason to justify the trades was because this organization wanted less money on the books then fuck them.

I can't say this enough, this is a very competitive business and you can not give away assets, you just can't do it. None of the contracts we sent out were bad enough to not get value back for them. So simply Norm and RoCo were leading the Clippers in bench minutes when they played... that's value far beyond Justise, Keon and a 2025 second rounder. CJ is now the Pelicans lead guard and Larry is their leading minutes getter off the bench... that's value far beyond Hart, Didi and a 2025 Bucks first rounder. Both trades were really bad and I don't think they had to be.

RoCo was rumored to be wanted by 7 different teams at the deadline... even if they gave us nothing but the 2M in cap relief we had to get in order to stay out of repeater tax that would be better than the nothing we got for him from the Clippers. There were also three different front offices that came out and said that they were never contacted about Powell and would have given up more than the Clippers did for him. CJ is an interesting situation because I haven't heard that anyone specifically wanted him more or retroactively said they would have given up more but like many have said, we can't come away from a trade where we traded two starters for Hart and no pick until 2025... Cronin had to do a better job with contingencies if the Pelicans made the playoffs and therefore got more value out of the trade than what they were giving back. Instead the Pelicans got more value than they originally portrayed that they thought they were getting and gave up less in return. What I'm saying is that Joe set it up so if CJ's new team out performed expectations after he was acquired we got far far less in return.

Anyone who doesn't see all of this as a major fail by Cronin is either kidding themselves or doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

To answer the OP's question even though I would have been pissed about a 7th season of Dame/CJ, which actually would have been CJ/Ant and I would have been pissed about having Norm play the three all season, I would most definitely take RoCo's expiring contract with bird rights, Larry's contract that goes down in cost and is expiring next season, CJ and Norm on their contracts than Hart, Winslow, Keon, Ingles' expiring contract with bird rights considering the fact that his game was on the decline before his knee blew out and the bullshit picks we ended up with.

 

[Pinwheel1]

What the team desperately needed was to acquire draft assets. We didn't. No excuses will change the fact that in the Darwinian world of the NBA Cronin didn't get the job done.

No doubt draft assets are always a good thing to have....but desperately? What did you want to do with these assets that are all high lottery-protected?
Yes, I know that they are good to have for making deals but IMO we seem to be jumping to some foregone conclusion that multiple draft picks (usually top 4 protected) are a game-changer. I guess I am just confused about who we are all talking about. I assume it is a player that is much better than Grant.

 

[blazerkor]

I think we'd have gotten that for CJ in the first place if it were an option...

And who says Cleveland wants Norm or his contract?

You can't combine traded player exceptions, so then we wouldn't be able to go after Grant like Dame wants.

Cleveland was one of the three teams that reportedly weren't contacted and were interested in giving more than we got. Also this bullshit about Norm getting to go home and being so grateful to us that he could and CJ getting to go where he wanted, really is more telling about how competitive we were to get the best value back than any of the rumors or lack thereof that any of us can point to. We have CJ saying that him being there was important to him, we have Norm saying being where he is was important to him and we have Cronin talking about both of them ending up in the situations they wanted to be in being a big part of things. That's hard evidence of managerial malpractice.

 

[e_blazer]

Anyone who doesn't see all of this as a major fail by Cronin is either kidding themselves or doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

Well, that's not a particularly engaging invitation to a rational discussion about the moves Cronin made. But, I'll ignore that and jump in with where I think you're mistaken. The Blazers need a high caliber PF if they want to compete. None of those guys, CJ included, either individually or in a package were likely to bring that type of player back in trade. Other teams are stocked with guards and short, middle-talent PFs. They aren't giving up the type of player the Blazers need for those types of assets. What they would have generated would have been similar guys to the ones we sent out. That would just be cap-clogging iterations of what we already had. Cronin wanted a top-6 or so lottery pick to use to acquire that kind of player either in the draft or, more likely, via trade in combination with the TPE. He's got that asset now, it's up to him to produce this summer or exit the stage. I agree with your position that Cronin should have gotten more protection on the NO pick, but we weren't privvy to the trade talks and don't know if that was a possibility. We do know that CJ needed to go in order to make room for Simons and Hart. Mission accomplished. All I care about is what the roster looks like in October. I don't care what route Cronin has to travel to get there.

 

[oldmangrouch]

No doubt draft assets are always a good thing to have....but desperately? What did you want to do with these assets that are all high lottery-protected?
Yes, I know that they are good to have for making deals but IMO we seem to be jumping to some foregone conclusion that multiple draft picks (usually top 4 protected) are a game-changer. I guess I am just confused about who we are all talking about. I assume it is a player that is much better than Grant.

2 points. First, even a late lotto pick would have been a better trade asset than any of the players we got - with the obvious exception of Hart. Second, as I said before, there are guys projected in the 7-10 range of this draft I would take over Grant in a heartbeat. (eg Davis or Mathurin) Finding a player cheaper than Grant and with more long-term value isn't that high a bar to clear.

Obvious disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't get why the team seems to be so hot for Grant. When you balance what he brings to the court vs his salary and the acquisition cost, I just don't see it. It seems like another questionable "win now" trade that makes no sense for a team that needs a major revamp.

 

[e_blazer]

Cleveland was one of the three teams that reportedly weren't contacted and were interested in giving more than we got. Also this bullshit about Norm getting to go home and being so grateful to us that he could and CJ getting to go where he wanted, really is more telling about how competitive we were to get the best value back than any of the rumors or lack thereof that any of us can point to. We have CJ saying that him being there was important to him, we have Norm saying being where he is was important to him and we have Cronin talking about both of them ending up in the situations they wanted to be in being a big part of things. That's hard evidence of managerial malpractice.

No it's not. It's evidence of a small market team doing its best to show that they take player's interests in consideration when making deals. If we're ever going to attract top-level FAs we have to show that this is a player-friendly organization. Do you think Dame would have been thrilled to see CJ shipped off to NBA Siberia?

 

[Hoopguru]

2 points. First, even a late lotto pick would have been a better trade asset than any of the players we got - with the obvious exception of Hart. Second, as I said before, there are guys projected in the 7-10 range of this draft I would take over Grant in a heartbeat. (eg Davis or Mathurin) Finding a player cheaper than Grant and with more long-term value isn't that high a bar to clear.

Obvious disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't get why the team seems to be so hot for Grant. When you balance what he brings to the court vs his salary and the acquisition cost, I just don't see it. It seems like another questionable "win now" trade that makes no sense for a team that needs a major revamp.

They have someone other than Grant targeted I would guess?

 

[wizenheimer]

CJ for Hart, Sato, and the Lakers pick. Norm to Cleveland for their pick. Combine those deals and you still get a $20.8M TPE. Keep Nance.

LOL, yeah right....if Portland would have traded CJ for the Lakers pick when they were 9th seed in the West, which they were at the time, guys like you would have gone just as batshit as you're going now. At the time the Lakers were 12th in the lottery and the Pels would only own that pick if it was top-10. You guys would have been screaming about not getting the Pels pick instead.

and what makes you think that Cleveland would have preferred Powell over LeVert? Cavs wanted to get bigger in the back court. LeVert did that, Powell wouldn't

by the way, at the trade deadline the Cavs were 3rd seed in the east, and were tied with Utah for the 7th best record. Their pick was either the 23rd or 24th

 

[wizenheimer]

Anyone who doesn't see all of this as a major fail by Cronin is either kidding themselves or doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

you really need to step away from this and take some deep breaths. You're insulting a lot of posters here with that kind of statement

I don't look at the trade deadline as a major fail, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. I would have liked to have seen a better payoff for the outgoing assets. But the only 'reports' I've seen about other offers have been for CJ (Hawks & Mavs) and those offers were not as good as what Portland got. I don't care how many times you and others assure me there just had to be better deals to be had, because, I'm not believing it till I see proof

if those deadline deals were a major fail, which they weren't, only about 9% of the failure was Cronin's (science); about 17% more was bad luck; and 74% of the failure was Olshey's for assembling such an expensive dead-end-of-purgatory roster while mortgaging and obligating 9 years of first round picks. Sometimes you beat the shit out of your car when you're backing out of a blind dead-end alley at a bad angle.

I know I've been over-the-top in my reactions sometimes, but the 10 week tantrums some of you are having are crazy

 

[THE HCP]

Those players got him where exactly? They got him to 3rd place in the division and a first round exit last year

How we looking with out them my man? I'll take 3rd place and the early playoff exit every season.

 

[THE HCP]

Because of these moves.....I don't think we sniff the playoffs for another 5 years.

 

[Pinwheel1]

2

2 points. First, even a late lotto pick would have been a better trade asset than any of the players we got - with the obvious exception of Hart. Second, as I said before, there are guys projected in the 7-10 range of this draft I would take over Grant in a heartbeat. (eg Davis or Mathurin) Finding a player cheaper than Grant and with more long-term value isn't that high a bar to clear.

Obvious disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't get why the team seems to be so hot for Grant. When you balance what he brings to the court vs his salary and the acquisition cost, I just don't see it. It seems like another questionable "win now" trade that makes no sense for a team that needs a major revamp.

OK, I get what you are saying. You wanted another Dame scenario where a team gives us 6-10 for someone like NP (and his 75 million dollar contract) or Roco and his ending contract, while we take no money back. I guess it is possible, although I am just not sure why someone would want them. (not sure Clipper fans even want them now)

Either way, you are talking about picks down the road. When you said "desperately" I took it as more of "helping us now". Hell Keon helps us more now than one of those future picks.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Because of these moves.....I don't think we sniff the playoffs for another 5 years.

This one will be fun to look back on.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Because of these moves.....I don't think we sniff the playoffs for another 5 years.

Lol. I'll be shocked if we don't make the playoffs next year.

Does hurt our chances at advancing though... We need to hit big in draft.

 

[blazerkor]

Well, that's not a particularly engaging invitation to a rational discussion about the moves Cronin made. But, I'll ignore that and jump in with where I think you're mistaken. The Blazers need a high caliber PF if they want to compete. None of those guys, CJ included, either individually or in a package were likely to bring that type of player back in trade. Other teams are stocked with guards and short, middle-talent PFs. They aren't giving up the type of player the Blazers need for those types of assets. What they would have generated would have been similar guys to the ones we sent out. That would just be cap-clogging iterations of what we already had. Cronin wanted a top-6 or so lottery pick to use to acquire that kind of player either in the draft or, more likely, via trade in combination with the TPE. He's got that asset now, it's up to him to produce this summer or exit the stage. I agree with your position that Cronin should have gotten more protection on the NO pick, but we weren't privvy to the trade talks and don't know if that was a possibility. We do know that CJ needed to go in order to make room for Simons and Hart. Mission accomplished. All I care about is what the roster looks like in October. I don't care what route Cronin has to travel to get there.

you really need to step away from this and take some deep breaths. You're insulting a lot of posters here with that kind of statement

I don't look at the trade deadline as a major fail, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. I would have liked to have seen a better payoff for the outgoing assets. But the only 'reports' I've seen about other offers have been for CJ (Hawks & Mavs) and those offers were not as good as what Portland got. I don't care how many times you and others assure me there just had to be better deals to be had, because, I'm not believing it till I see proof

if those deadline deals were a major fail, which they weren't, only about 9% of the failure was Cronin's (science); about 17% more was bad luck; and 74% of the failure was Olshey's for assembling such an expensive dead-end-of-purgatory roster while mortgaging and obligating 9 years of first round picks. Sometimes you beat the shit out of your car when you're backing out of a blind dead-end alley at a bad angle.

I know I've been over-the-top in my reactions sometimes, but the 10 week tantrums some of you are having are crazy

You guys are right that my language was way too strong and I see how it was insulting. I apologize. I'll say it the way I should have. If anyone doesn't see Cronin's trade deadline deals as coming up short then I have to question whether they are being real with themselves or just don't quite get it. I also realize that we are coming off of Olshey who constantly made moves that came up short and then was condescending to everyone about it. Cronin's personality while maybe not suited for the tough game that is being the ultimate decision maker when building an NBA roster, is refreshing when compared to Olshey's. I think that's why a lot of people are giving Cronin the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve it because he's not Olshey (both doesn't have the long history of bad moves and doesn't have the attitude that most of us couldn't stand).

The thing about Cronin's deadline deals coming up short is that they should automatically have us moving on from him as a candidate for GM or at the very least if he were to become the GM it should make it requisite that he have a more shrewd person above him as Pres of Basketball Ops. I don't think you should win a job you don't have yet by even marginally screwing it up on an interim basis.

No it's not. It's evidence of a small market team doing its best to show that they take player's interests in consideration when making deals. If we're ever going to attract top-level FAs we have to show that this is a player-friendly organization. Do you think Dame would have been thrilled to see CJ shipped off to NBA Siberia?

I don't think acting like a mom and pop business when in fact your a multibillion dollar organization is going to attract any free agents and I think inherently when you're worrying about these guys feelings you are almost certainly missing out on opportunities unless you get really really lucky. Obviously we can't count on getting lucky, in fact no one in their profession can rely on luck but it does seem to be something Cronin is fond of or maybe he thinks he's earning good karma and maybe some in here do too but I don't buy into that. Fucking people over has negative consequences and people will point out that logical sequence of actions to prove karma but as far as the universe repaying our team because we've been unlucky or are extra nice, that's not something that in my limited perspective I see as realistic.

I also don't think we need to care about Dame's feelings so much. If the best deal sent CJ to a destination that is less than desirable to him (there's no NBA team in a place like Siberia) then we have to take that deal. Same with Norm. Same with Dame for that matter. The only obligation a GM has is to the team and doing whatever makes the team the best it can be. Obviously a GM shouldn't go out of their way to fuck over their players but all of this feel good shit that I've been hearing about from this team for over a decade now and the hand ringing about exactly what Dame does or doesn't want has, in my assessment, seriously hindered our ability to compete. That's not Dame's fault, that's the fault of management.

Did taking jack shit for Clyde end up with us landing a big time free agent? Does anyone really think that what CJ and Norm said about the team taking care of them will land us any impact free agents that wouldn't come here anyway? I personally think it makes us look like amateurs.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You guys are right that my language was way too strong and I see how it was insulting. I apologize. I'll say it the way I should have. If anyone doesn't see Cronin's trade deadline deals as coming up short then I have to question whether they are being real with themselves or just don't quite get it. I also realize that we are coming off of Olshey who constantly made moves that came up short and then was condescending to everyone about it. Cronin's personality while maybe not suited for the tough game that is being the ultimate decision maker when building an NBA roster, is refreshing when compared to Olshey's. I think that's why a lot of people are giving Cronin the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve it because he's not Olshey (both doesn't have the long history of bad moves and doesn't have the attitude that most of us couldn't stand).

The thing about Cronin's deadline deals coming up short is that they should automatically have us moving on from him as a candidate for GM or at the very least if he were to become the GM it should make it requisite that he have a more shrewd person above him as Pres of Basketball Ops. I don't think you should win a job you don't have yet by even marginally screwing it up on an interim basis.



I don't think acting like a mom and pop business when in fact your a multibillion dollar organization is going to attract any free agents and I think inherently when you're worrying about these guys feelings you are almost certainly missing out on opportunities unless you get really really lucky. Obviously we can't count on getting lucky, in fact no one in their profession can rely on luck but it does seem to be something Cronin is fond of or maybe he thinks he's earning good karma and maybe some in here do too but I don't buy into that. Fucking people over has negative consequences and people will point out that logical sequence of actions to prove karma but as far as the universe repaying our team because we've been unlucky or are extra nice, that's not something that in my limited perspective I see as realistic.

I also don't think we need to care about Dame's feelings so much. If the best deal sent CJ to a destination that is less than desirable to him (there's no NBA team in a place like Siberia) then we have to take that deal. Same with Norm. Same with Dame for that matter. The only obligation a GM has is to the team and doing whatever makes the team the best it can be. Obviously a GM shouldn't go out of their way to fuck over their players but all of this feel good shit that I've been hearing about from this team for over a decade now and the hand ringing about exactly what Dame does or doesn't want has, in my assessment, seriously hindered our ability to compete. That's not Dame's fault, that's the fault of management.

Did taking jack shit for Clyde end up with us landing a big time free agent? Does anyone really think that what CJ and Norm said about the team taking care of them will land us any impact free agents that wouldn't come here anyway? I personally think it makes us look like amateurs.

We're not going to get free agents regardless. However, it may help you build good will with the guys you trade for, or who are already here.

And if there weren't better offers, why not play that aspect up?

I simply don't believe we took back a lesser offer for CJ or Norm. I've seen no evidence to suggest that. And I don't believe Cleveland had anything we wanted.

 

[Hoopguru]

We're not going to get free agents regardless. However, it may help you build good will with the guys you trade for, or who are already here.

And if there weren't better offers, why not play that aspect up?

I simply don't believe we took back a lesser offer for CJ or Norm. I've seen no evidence to suggest that. And I don't believe Cleveland had anything we wanted.

And its not just good will with the players its the agents and you never know how pay back can happen.
I do think the ownership should either give Joe a vote of confidence and give him the job or bring someone else in and not a week before the draft.

 

[wizenheimer]

You guys are right that my language was way too strong and I see how it was insulting. I apologize. I'll say it the way I should have. If anyone doesn't see Cronin's trade deadline deals as coming up short then I have to question whether they are being real with themselves or just don't quite get it. I also realize that we are coming off of Olshey who constantly made moves that came up short and then was condescending to everyone about it. Cronin's personality while maybe not suited for the tough game that is being the ultimate decision maker when building an NBA roster, is refreshing when compared to Olshey's. I think that's why a lot of people are giving Cronin the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve it because he's not Olshey (both doesn't have the long history of bad moves and doesn't have the attitude that most of us couldn't stand).

The thing about Cronin's deadline deals coming up short is that they should automatically have us moving on from him as a candidate for GM or at the very least if he were to become the GM it should make it requisite that he have a more shrewd person above him as Pres of Basketball Ops. I don't think you should win a job you don't have yet by even marginally screwing it up on an interim basis..

np...I know you are worked up about this. And I'm certainly familiar with rhetoric getting away from me

now, about Cronin: I've said before and I'll say again that I'd prefer a more experienced GM in charge of the draft and the off-season. I'm really worried about him being so locked onto Grant that he trades a top-7 pick for him...and I don't think Grant is worthy of it generically. It's even worse for Portland in that it's their first top-10 pick in 9 years. It really needs to be a home run and that's not Grant. At this point, the most I'd hope the Blazers pay for Grant is that Milwaukee 1st + the TPE. I'd prefer Bledsoe used rather than the TPE too

I'm not going to go back in and detail all the components of the two deadline trades. That's been done over and over. Another thing done over and over is the vague debate about what better deals Portland could have made. Some people like the return on the real deals a lot more than others, obviously. Again, I'll say I thought the return could have been better but the gap between the could-of-been and what was isn't that big. And a lot of that is operating from hindsight while anticipating cooperation from the other teams. Those are questionable gauges.

I am very happy that the Blazers are off the 7 year treadmill they were trudging on, and won't be extending it to an 8th year. I was less enthusiastic about this year's Blazer team than I had been for years...lots of years. Olshey-vision bored a giant gaping hole in my Blazer fandom. I don't believe the Blazers lost anything of value but they did gain an opportunity to re-set the roster. Paying CJ-Powell-RoCo-Nance for their role-playing talent had the Blazer trajectory flat-lined

The darkest cloud on the horizon for me is ownership. I do not think the Blazers are well-served by the Vulcans. I don't think the Vulcans give a shit about the team as long as they can continue to rake profits. Maybe we should cll them the Vulgerans

 

[e_blazer]

You guys are right that my language was way too strong and I see how it was insulting. I apologize. I'll say it the way I should have. If anyone doesn't see Cronin's trade deadline deals as coming up short then I have to question whether they are being real with themselves or just don't quite get it. I also realize that we are coming off of Olshey who constantly made moves that came up short and then was condescending to everyone about it. Cronin's personality while maybe not suited for the tough game that is being the ultimate decision maker when building an NBA roster, is refreshing when compared to Olshey's. I think that's why a lot of people are giving Cronin the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve it because he's not Olshey (both doesn't have the long history of bad moves and doesn't have the attitude that most of us couldn't stand).

The thing about Cronin's deadline deals coming up short is that they should automatically have us moving on from him as a candidate for GM or at the very least if he were to become the GM it should make it requisite that he have a more shrewd person above him as Pres of Basketball Ops. I don't think you should win a job you don't have yet by even marginally screwing it up on an interim basis.



I don't think acting like a mom and pop business when in fact your a multibillion dollar organization is going to attract any free agents and I think inherently when you're worrying about these guys feelings you are almost certainly missing out on opportunities unless you get really really lucky. Obviously we can't count on getting lucky, in fact no one in their profession can rely on luck but it does seem to be something Cronin is fond of or maybe he thinks he's earning good karma and maybe some in here do too but I don't buy into that. Fucking people over has negative consequences and people will point out that logical sequence of actions to prove karma but as far as the universe repaying our team because we've been unlucky or are extra nice, that's not something that in my limited perspective I see as realistic.

I also don't think we need to care about Dame's feelings so much. If the best deal sent CJ to a destination that is less than desirable to him (there's no NBA team in a place like Siberia) then we have to take that deal. Same with Norm. Same with Dame for that matter. The only obligation a GM has is to the team and doing whatever makes the team the best it can be. Obviously a GM shouldn't go out of their way to fuck over their players but all of this feel good shit that I've been hearing about from this team for over a decade now and the hand ringing about exactly what Dame does or doesn't want has, in my assessment, seriously hindered our ability to compete. That's not Dame's fault, that's the fault of management.

Did taking jack shit for Clyde end up with us landing a big time free agent? Does anyone really think that what CJ and Norm said about the team taking care of them will land us any impact free agents that wouldn't come here anyway? I personally think it makes us look like amateurs.

Well, we’re probably not going to see eye to eye on the CJ trade, but at least you have to recognize that the Blazers obtained a $21M non-simultaneous trade exception as an asset as a result of the trade. If Cronin is able to use that in conjunction with a pick to obtain a player we need, the CJ deal may look much better in the long run.

 

[Mediocre Man]

How we looking with out them my man? I'll take 3rd place and the early playoff exit every season.

So you think a healthy roster of

Dame
Ant
Hart
Winslow
Nurk

wouldn’t get us to 3rd and the playoffs?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Because of these moves.....I don't think we sniff the playoffs for another 5 years.

Does Dame know how little faith you have in him?

 

[Ed O]

Because of these moves.....I don't think we sniff the playoffs for another 5 years.

I worry we're going to keep sniffing the play-in games, which is even worse.

 

[Ed O]

I don't see any evidence that Cronin made good deals other than that he made them (so they must have been the best he could do).

Objectively, we got back almost no value. Even as we all like Hart, he's never been on a good (or even decent) NBA team and his friendly contract has one more year on it. If and when he gets a raise, he becomes just another guy.

In terms of the thinking that it must have been the best we could do: Cronin is a rookie. That doesn't mean he MUST be bad at his job, because sometimes inexperienced people succeed, but he has no track record that gives him the benefit of the doubt and honestly I can't recall him ever being considered GM material. Like Hart after he gets a big raise, he's just another guy.

 

[Phatguysrule]

np...I know you are worked up about this. And I'm certainly familiar with rhetoric getting away from me

now, about Cronin: I've said before and I'll say again that I'd prefer a more experienced GM in charge of the draft and the off-season. I'm really worried about him being so locked onto Grant that he trades a top-7 pick for him...and I don't think Grant is worthy of it generically. It's even worse for Portland in that it's their first top-10 pick in 9 years. It really needs to be a home run and that's not Grant. At this point, the most I'd hope the Blazers pay for Grant is that Milwaukee 1st + the TPE. I'd prefer Bledsoe used rather than the TPE too

I'm not going to go back in and detail all the components of the two deadline trades. That's been done over and over. Another thing done over and over is the vague debate about what better deals Portland could have made. Some people like the return on the real deals a lot more than others, obviously. Again, I'll say I thought the return could have been better but the gap between the could-of-been and what was isn't that big. And a lot of that is operating from hindsight while anticipating cooperation from the other teams. Those are questionable gauges.

I am very happy that the Blazers are off the 7 year treadmill they were trudging on, and won't be extending it to an 8th year. I was less enthusiastic about this year's Blazer team than I had been for years...lots of years. Olshey-vision bored a giant gaping hole in my Blazer fandom. I don't believe the Blazers lost anything of value but they did gain an opportunity to re-set the roster. Paying CJ-Powell-RoCo-Nance for their role-playing talent had the Blazer trajectory flat-lined

The darkest cloud on the horizon for me is ownership. I do not think the Blazers are well-served by the Vulcans. I don't think the Vulcans give a shit about the team as long as they can continue to rake profits. Maybe we should cll them the Vulgerans

Well said. I agree 100%.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

LOL, yeah right....if Portland would have traded CJ for the Lakers pick when they were 9th seed in the West, which they were at the time, guys like you would have gone just as batshit as you're going now. At the time the Lakers were 12th in the lottery and the Pels would only own that pick if it was top-10. You guys would have been screaming about not getting the Pels pick instead.

and what makes you think that Cleveland would have preferred Powell over LeVert? Cavs wanted to get bigger in the back court. LeVert did that, Powell wouldn't

by the way, at the trade deadline the Cavs were 3rd seed in the east, and were tied with Utah for the 7th best record. Their pick was either the 23rd or 24th

Nobody is saying the trade should have happened at that time for the Lakers pick instead of the Pels pick.

IF the Pels pick did not convey because they ended up making the playoffs, the logic that the Pels may have made the playoffs instead of the Lakers should have been considered. If Cronin would have had something like the better of the Pels or Laker pick, then the Milwaukie Bucks 2025 as the fail safe, you wouldn't see nearly as much bitching. I still wouldn't have been ecstatic, but I would be indifferent and more willing to see what Cronin might do this offseason. Just the same as if the Pels didn't make the playoffs and we got their pick.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

I was going to quote what some of you responded with, but I'll keep this short -- I like who the Blazers had, but the forward position was fundamentally flawed in trying to make up for a short SG who played at one end (and played well). I prefer the successful TANK to get the (currently) 6th pick -- a FORWARD the Blazers haven't been able to sign or trade for AND have used picks in the attempts to do so. That tank doesn't happen without clearing the decks ... and a loss of talent. Hart, Ingles, and Winslow are useful players. Getting the Milwaukee pick is disappointing as hell, but I'll take that asset regardless. The Draft Lottery followed by the draft and offseason ... are just HUGE.

[This year is not the Spurs all-time, tanktastic job of an injured Robinson and getting Duncan, but it'll have to be good enough. And what should have been a Tank job after LMexit with Dame, CJ and cast-off, marginal starters was a failure but a success story that then got better with Nurkic and a year in the WCF.]