Haynes full of shit (no Nic 4 years, 46.5 Million) (confirmed)

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Not a chance

Well then who? Williams? b\c they sure are insisting rather loudly that he will not be part of the deal...

It has to be either Williams or Pekovic IMO, no other player on that team makes sense...

"Ok, POR you got us...we will now include Wayne Ellington..."

I think if they offer one of Williams or Pekovic (which I agree would be mystifying on thier part, but he is an RFA next year)....then a deal will be done...
 
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Jason Quick ‏@jwquick
@BrianFromWA My guy - a former front offic exec- is adamant that only the guaranteed part stays on books during waiver process.
 
Well then who? Williams? b\c they sure are insisting rather loudly that he will not be part of the deal...

It has to be either Williams or Pekovic IMO, no other player on that team makes sense...

"Ok, POR you got us...we will now include Wayne Ellington..."

I think if they offer one of Williams or Pekovic (which I agree would be mystifying on thier part, but he is an RFA next year)....then a deal will be done...

I wouldn't be shocked if he also wants out-year picks. Right now we're a bit hamstrung b/c of our protection on next year's pick to CHA. If we owed it to them outright, we could trade our 2015 and 2017 picks right now. But we can't b/c of the protection and the Stepien Rule. However, if we had, say, MIN's 2014 and 2016 pick, we could trade those two without endangering our own.

I think Olshey's holding them over a barrel, and they don't want to give up Williams or Pekovic (I wouldn't be surprised if Olshey had been asking for both until Darko was amnestied) so they'll end up with Williams and a boatload of picks. Or, we'll just sign Batum.
 
Yeah I think that is where this is ultimately headed Brian...If there is an eventual S&T

Williams and 1 or 2 picks....



Which begs the question, what is the hold up from MIN? The picks themselves are likely to hold marginal value if MIN gets Batum, I mean the only way they would hold signifcant value is if MIN went through a rash if injuries again and tanked...

and Williams, where is he going to play? You have Love at PF, Batum at SF, you just brought in Budinger....How many minutes is he really going to see, 20min a night? maybe?

If the holdup is Williams then Kahn is an idiot...I mean you put out a full court press for the guy, you offer him a tn of money, then you let this circus drag on now for way too long which only shows how much you want him and yet for some stubborn reason you refuse to part with 1 or 2 mid round future picks and a player who at best would be your 7th or 8th man?

Really? I think they are either being overly greedy or thier owner Taylor has a man crush on Williams and is refusing to let Kahn deal him.....
 
Great stuff, everyone. Especially Brian From WA for the great salary cap analysis.

Tell me if I have this right: in order to make room for Batum, the Timberwolves would have to unload multiple players and maybe have to wait days for them to clear waivers. But that would all probably be for naught, because the Blazers can, and have said they will, match whatever Minnesota offers.

To add insult to injury, because the Blazers have three days to match the offer, and because Portland - unlike Minnesota - has cap room, Olshey can wait three days to match Batum, adding players along the way, and have no problem going over the cap to sign their own RFA. In short, the Blazers basically could accumulate players while this whole fiasco plays out (and would most definitely wind up with Batum in the end), while the Timberwolves have to dump players to even make a valid, plausible offer (and would most definitely wind up without Batum in the end).

It's kind of shocking how transparent Minnesota's bargaining position is, once all the facts are in. The "trade kicker" is an interesting gambit, but given how far from an actual offer Minnesota is, I'm sure it did little more than raise a quizzical eyebrow at One Center Court.

You just summarized 12 hours and 650 posts into three paragraphs. Well done, sir! ;)

Bingo, Bango, Bongo Baby

S2 > All
 
Tom Penn?

If so thats a fucking damn good source.

cbafaq.com is just a writers explanation in laymen terms of the CBA. It has no authority. There has been times Coon rephrased terms in a way to make them easy for us all to understand but they lose some accuracy when applied to multiple situations. His questions we've been reading and linked to in this thread are explanations of the waiver process, not explanations of how to calculate available cap room to sign free agents.
 
If so thats a fucking damn good source.

cbafaq.com is just a writers explanation in laymen terms of the CBA. It has no authority. There has been times Coon rephrased terms in a way to make them easy for us all to understand but they lose some accuracy when applied to multiple situations. His questions we've been reading and linked to in this thread are explanations of the waiver process, not explanations of how to calculate available cap room to sign free agents.
Agree with you on all counts. But there are some very unequivocal statements that are the crux of the matter, like "his non-guaranteed salary comes off the team salary when he clears waivers." and "Buyout is actually a combination of altering the players contract to change the guarantee and/or payment schedule, and waiving the player" and "The only way to terminate a contract early (other than with an ETO -- see question number 57) is through the waiver process."

We're not parsing numbers on whether they got 4.5% increases or decreases....we're attempting to take the resources available to us and explain what's going on. When Haynes says "offer sheet coming soon" we ask "how?!" When Jaynes says "Buyout" we say "under what clause of the CBA?" If you have better info I'm happy to learn.
 
so guys what's in store today, yesterday was fascinating and very humorous and I had nightmares about the CBA, what antics can the Khan come up with today as he appears sillier and sillier, so far a big plus 1 for Neil Olshey

or does he crack and include Williams?
 
Great stuff, everyone. Especially Brian From WA for the great salary cap analysis.

Tell me if I have this right: in order to make room for Batum, the Timberwolves would have to unload multiple players and maybe have to wait days for them to clear waivers. But that would all probably be for naught, because the Blazers can, and have said they will, match whatever Minnesota offers.

To add insult to injury, because the Blazers have three days to match the offer, and because Portland - unlike Minnesota - has cap room, Olshey can wait three days to match Batum, adding players along the way, and have no problem going over the cap to sign their own RFA. In short, the Blazers basically could accumulate players while this whole fiasco plays out (and would most definitely wind up with Batum in the end), while the Timberwolves have to dump players to even make a valid, plausible offer (and would most definitely wind up without Batum in the end).

It's kind of shocking how transparent Minnesota's bargaining position is, once all the facts are in. The "trade kicker" is an interesting gambit, but given how far from an actual offer Minnesota is, I'm sure it did little more than raise a quizzical eyebrow at One Center Court.
I thought I read somewhere that once Batum is signed to an offer sheet, his new contract is added to PDX's cap and not the caphold. But Olshey can start adding players now.
 
so guys what's in store today, yesterday was fascinating and very humorous and I had nightmares about the CBA, what antics can the Khan come up with today as he appears sillier and sillier, so far a big plus 1 for Neil Olshey

or does he crack and include Williams?
He should. Not only is there a minutes issue, but how exactly are they going to be able to afford Pek or DWill if they intend to keep KLove after you add Batum's salary?
 
Re: Nic 4 years, 46.5 Million

If the Blazers don't match Batum, it looks like they'd be under the league minimum salary. I calculated their total team salary would be at 42 mil (counting Shawne Williams, not sure if all his salary counts though?). But the league minimum team salary is 49 mil, so Paul Allen would be doling out that extra 7 mil amongst the rest of the team.
 
Re: Nic 4 years, 46.5 Million

If the Blazers don't match Batum, it looks like they'd be under the league minimum salary. I calculated their total team salary would be at 42 mil (counting Shawne Williams, not sure if all his salary counts though?). But the league minimum team salary is 49 mil, so Paul Allen would be doling out that extra 7 mil amongst the rest of the team.

Does that include Roy? His salary counts towards that
 
While Roy doesn't count against the cap, it's been said his salary counts against the minimum, so if true, we're okay.
 
Re: Nic 4 years, 46.5 Million

If the Blazers don't match Batum, it looks like they'd be under the league minimum salary. I calculated their total team salary would be at 42 mil (counting Shawne Williams, not sure if all his salary counts though?). But the league minimum team salary is 49 mil, so Paul Allen would be doling out that extra 7 mil amongst the rest of the team.
I think this was disspelled because amnestied salaries count towards minimum salary.
 
He should. Not only is there a minutes issue, but how exactly are they going to be able to afford Pek or DWill if they intend to keep KLove after you add Batum's salary?

I don't think DWill is in their long term plans. I just think they wanted to hold on to him for now so they can use him as trade bait for possibly a SG. At least that is what I would do if I were them. If they actually got Batum then in their minds they would be set for 4 out of the 5 starting spots. (Unless that miracle treatment for Brandon works-then they are set)

But as discussed, DWill has to be involved for them to have a chance to S & T.
 
I thought I read somewhere that once Batum is signed to an offer sheet, his new contract is added to PDX's cap and not the caphold. But Olshey can start adding players now.

No. It's the cap hold until Olshey matches (then it becomes the first-year #) or time expires (or he tell MIN they won't match), then it goes to zero.
 
While Roy doesn't count against the cap, it's been said his salary counts against the minimum, so if true, we're okay.

True. All payroll paid out (regardless of cap #) counts toward minimum salary.
 
No. It's the cap hold until Olshey matches (then it becomes the first-year #) or time expires (or he tell MIN they won't match), then it goes to zero.

unless you go by Jaynes' word. lol
 
If so thats a fucking damn good source.

cbafaq.com is just a writers explanation in laymen terms of the CBA. It has no authority. There has been times Coon rephrased terms in a way to make them easy for us all to understand but they lose some accuracy when applied to multiple situations. His questions we've been reading and linked to in this thread are explanations of the waiver process, not explanations of how to calculate available cap room to sign free agents.

While Penn is a good source, there is no guarantee that he's an expert on the current CBA. He's been working for ESPN since 2010.
 
I don't think DWill is in their long term plans. I just think they wanted to hold on to him for now so they can use him as trade bait for possibly a SG. At least that is what I would do if I were them. If they actually got Batum then in their minds they would be set for 4 out of the 5 starting spots. (Unless that miracle treatment for Brandon works-then they are set)

But as discussed, DWill has to be involved for them to have a chance to S & T.

Why would they need a shooting guard when they have Brandon Roy!?! :grin:
 
While Penn is a good source, there is no guarantee that he's an expert on the current CBA. He's been working for ESPN since 2010.

I laugh as I type this, but we should know by today.........
 
Brian FromWA ‏@brianfromwa
@LarryCoon can you elaborate on the info/misinfo about when non-guaranteed salary comes off the team's cap when waiving a player?

Larry Coon ‏@LarryCoon
@BrianFromWA Amnesty it comes off right away. Non-amnesty it comes off when clearing waivers.
 
Brian FromWA ‏@brianfromwa
@LarryCoon can you elaborate on the info/misinfo about when non-guaranteed salary comes off the team's cap when waiving a player?

Larry Coon ‏@LarryCoon
@brianfromwa Amnesty it comes off right away. Non-amnesty it comes off when clearing waivers.


God has spoken to his people.
 
Brian FromWA ‏@brianfromwa
@LarryCoon can you elaborate on the info/misinfo about when non-guaranteed salary comes off the team's cap when waiving a player?

Larry Coon ‏@LarryCoon
@brianfromwa Amnesty it comes off right away. Non-amnesty it comes off when clearing waivers.

This is what I thought as well, but what about partially guaranteed money? I mean is it the entire amount or just the guaranteed amount?
 
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Brian FromWA ‏@brianfromwa
@LarryCoon can you elaborate on the info/misinfo about when non-guaranteed salary comes off the team's cap when waiving a player?

Larry Coon ‏@LarryCoon
@brianfromwa Amnesty it comes off right away. Non-amnesty it comes off when clearing waivers.
What about this team option scenario that Ricky Business has been asking about. Does this answer that? It is all kind of confusing. Props for being on this. Denny should up your profit sharing or something.
 
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