Haywood and Mike Miller to Portland

[oldmangrouch]

you really think we could've gotten more when they had other teams to deal with? What exactly do you think he could've gotten????

Just before making the deal with us, they dealt Christmas to the Pacers for a 2019 2nd rounder.

I would rather have Christmas (who more than a few people think is a sleeper) and one over-the-horizon pick than what we got. YMMV.

 

[jlprk]

What exactly do you think he could've gotten????

I said my answer to your question several times in this current thread. The first time I said this was in the earlier Haywood thread, and here's the quote. In the many posts after this post, no one in that thread disagreed, and some explicitly agreed:

If it's a late late 1st round pick, go for it. If it's a late late 2nd rounder, don't waste the time.

agrees with me:

Doing this for a second round pick would mean we are doing this to benefit the other team and we are getting a late second rounder which is worth nothing. We need something else.

says we should go for even more, a player, since the Cavs must dump some:

the Cavs have 12 players signed with the addition of Jefferson and Jones. Thompson, Dellavedova and JR Smith have yet to get deals done. The Cavs are also looking at Sasha Kaun and that still leave the aforementioned Thompson, Dellavedova, Smith, possibly Perkins, Marion and Draft picks, Osman, Christmas and Sir'Dominic Pointer unsigned. Something will have to happen there as well. Both rosters are opportunities for the Blazers to pick up one more young piece.

In case someone says the Cavs wouldn't have included a player we want for the TPE...they had just done the same:

 

[OneLifeToLive]

You guys just don't recognize how motivated the seller was. The Cavs owner was very, very desperate to save tens of millions of dollars. Olshey bailed him out for only 2 2nd round picks.

Whether we can trade the picks for something better is irrelevant. The Cavs were willing to pay a lot, lot, lot more if Olshey had held their feet to the furnace. Instead, he settled with them only about 3 days after they publicly put up a "For Sale" sign across the sports media.

They probably knew that he's in a hurry to go on his South Seas island vacation that he mentioned at one of the July press conferences. It pays for the opposition to study each GM's comments for such details.

He could have gotten more and I think their next years late round first round pick. I will ask again, who was helping who here? It was Portland helping Cleveland. If they weren't willing to part with a their late first, I would have told them to get lost and don't come back until they were ready to part with it.

I'm with you on this. But I just think he is very weak at his job. And I'm in awe the lengths some of these posters will go to protect him.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

This discussion reminds me of the famous hypothetical used by Economists.

There's $100 sitting on the table. I grab $99, and hand you $1 to shut up and go away. According to the academics,this is a perfectly rational offer and you have no reason to say "no". Hey - it's a free dollar!

Of course, even the Economists admit that this approach rarely works in real life - but it is a very sound theory!

Sounds like 2006 to me.

 

[jlprk]

He could have gotten more and I think their next years late round first round pick. I will ask again, who was helping who here? It was Portland helping Cleveland. If they weren't willing to part with a their late first, I would have told them to get lost and don't come back until they were ready to part with it.

I'm with you on this. But I just think he is very weak at his job. And I'm in awe the lengths some of these posters will go to protect him.

Mixed record, but trending toward worsening. Olshey won the Lopez trade, then gave him away. He lost the Afflalo trade, then gave him away. Now, this Raef LaFrentz-like failure to fully exploit a free offer.

He brought the Clipper attitude here. Lose on purpose for 30 years, be cheap, make a profit. He said a couple of times in his first 2 years here that he wasn't used to an owner who wanted to win now. This summer, he got his way and drove us into the ground. I think we'll stay here for his duration. This is the self-destructive Clipper (Donald Sterling) vision.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Hey you kids, get those 2nd round draft picks off my lawn!

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Hey you kids, get those 2nd round draft picks off my lawn!

What's the likliehood of them panning out?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What's the likliehood of them panning out?

Far greater than if we didn't have those picks.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Far greater than if we didn't have those picks.

Which still doesn't answer my question. The 2019 pick has some value - but is it worth more than Christmas?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Which still doesn't answer my question. The 2019 pick has some value - but is it worth more than Christmas?

When I was 4yrs old I got a Cocker Spaniel for Christmas. Cute puppy, awesome dog. The only problem is my parents let me name the dog and being 4yrs old I named that dog Christmas. Sure, having a dog named Christmas is cute when you're 4yrs old but fast forward 12yrs and when the dog gets out of the yard and you have to walk up and down the neighborhood yelling, "Christmas! Christmas!" 16yr old me didn't think having anything named Christmas is very cool!

 

[barfo]

Which still doesn't answer my question. The 2019 pick has some value - but is it worth more than Christmas?

It would appear NO thinks so, or he could have taken Xmas instead of what's behind door number 2019.

barfo

 

[OneLifeToLive]

It would appear NO thinks so, or he could have taken Xmas instead of what's behind door number 2019.

barfo

Christmas in July would have been wonderful though

 

[RR7]

He could have gotten more and I think their next years late round first round pick. I will ask again, who was helping who here? It was Portland helping Cleveland. If they weren't willing to part with a their late first, I would have told them to get lost and don't come back until they were ready to part with it.

I'm with you on this. But I just think he is very weak at his job. And I'm in awe the lengths some of these posters will go to protect him.

First, nobody really goes to "lengths" to protect him. People defend a move. People understand moves made. Some don't. Some whine about anything done now, because of what happened previously, with losing Aldridge.
Cleveland doesn't have their 1st net year. So if you held out for that, it'd be like holding out for sex with my grandpa. He's gone. It's gone. Not gonna happen. Alright?
Philly has been more than willing to take on salary for picks lately. We took on 2.8 million for 2 2nds. You can bitch and moan about expecting more, but that for one, wasn't going to happen, and B, it was already money spent. Anything up to the floor, Paul has to pay. So that went somewhere, and here, it went for 2 2nds. We traded 2 2nds for Robin Lopez recently. Nice asset to have. We helped them, sure. And they helped us with 2 picks. They could have went to Philly. You tell them to get lost, and then instead of 2.8 for 2 picks, it's 2.8 for nothing. Brilliant strategy. Glad you're not our GM.

 

[RR7]

What's the likliehood of them panning out?

It's not currently an issue of them panning out. They're 2 assets. 2 assets we didn't have prior to this trade.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

When I was 4yrs old I got a Cocker Spaniel for Christmas. Cute puppy, awesome dog. The only problem is my parents let me name the dog and being 4yrs old I named that dog Christmas. Sure, having a dog named Christmas is cute when you're 4yrs old but fast forward 12yrs and when the dog gets out of the yard and you have to walk up and down the neighborhood yelling, "Christmas! Christmas!" 16yr old me didn't think having anything named Christmas is very cool!

Other pets that my parents allowed me to name as a child:

I got a calico cat, I named it Calico.

I got a rabbit, I named it Hairy, because it was a hare.

I got a duck and I named it... Rubber.

I was not the most imaginative child when it came to naming pets.

 

[OneLifeToLive]

First, nobody really goes to "lengths" to protect him. People defend a move. People understand moves made. Some don't. Some whine about anything done now, because of what happened previously, with losing Aldridge.
Cleveland doesn't have their 1st net year. So if you held out for that, it'd be like holding out for sex with my grandpa. He's gone. It's gone. Not gonna happen. Alright?
Philly has been more than willing to take on salary for picks lately. We took on 2.8 million for 2 2nds. You can bitch and moan about expecting more, but that for one, wasn't going to happen, and B, it was already money spent. Anything up to the floor, Paul has to pay. So that went somewhere, and here, it went for 2 2nds. We traded 2 2nds for Robin Lopez recently. Nice asset to have. We helped them, sure. And they helped us with 2 picks. They could have went to Philly. You tell them to get lost, and then instead of 2.8 for 2 picks, it's 2.8 for nothing. Brilliant strategy. Glad you're not our GM.

You're not going to sell me on the idea he is doing ok. I feel he could have gotten more. It didn't have to be next years pick. It could have been the next year or the year after.

Cleveland is going to be good for awhile.

 

[barfo]

Other pets that my parents allowed me to name as a child:

I got a calico cat, I named it Calico.

I got a rabbit, I named it Hairy, because it was a hare.

I got a duck and I named it... Rubber.

I was not the most imaginative child when it came to naming pets.

I can see you out searching for your pet rooster... "Hey lady, have you seen my Cock"?

barfo

 

[RR7]

You're not going to sell me on the idea he is doing ok. I feel he could have gotten more.

Well good for you. I feel he could have got LeBron. He didn't. What a shitty gm!

 

[Schilly]

If we gave up nothing then we aren't limited by what we could have gotten because we have more assets today than the "could have" that you haven't really been able to provide as a hypothetical.

 

[BBert]

I can see you out searching for your pet rooster... "Hey lady, have you seen my Cock"?

barfo

LMFAO

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You're not going to sell me on the idea he is doing ok. I feel he could have gotten more. It didn't have to be next years pick. It could have been the next year or the year after.

Cleveland is going to be good for awhile.

Roughly translated as: "The logic of your position is irrelevant; I have already decided that my purely speculative opinion is fact, despite any potential evidence or argument to the contrary."

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Roughly translated as: "The logic of your position is irrelevant; I have already decided that my purely speculative opinion is fact, despite any potential evidence or argument to the contrary."

 

[jlprk]

If we gave up nothing then we aren't limited by what we could have gotten because we have more assets today than the "could have" that you haven't really been able to provide as a hypothetical.

It's less hypothetical than the $75K number that you guys keep bandying about as the total price we paid to avoid getting a Cavs player for free. I see that right after the trade with us, they traded Dellavedova. They delayed that in case we wanted him. They have well over 15 players and we could have gotten one or two substitutes worth more than a 2nd round pick.

I'm still in the middle of this thread, reading your sarcastic posts.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It's less hypothetical than the $75K number that you guys keep bandying about as the total price we paid to avoid getting a Cavs player for free. I see that right after the trade with us, they traded Dellavedova. They delayed that in case we wanted him.

Now you're just making up shit. I expect more from you. Sad.

 

[BBert]

It doesn't matter how much Olshey paid. It's money that was just lying around doing nothing, and has to be spent on either something, or nothing, so he spent it on something. Of course he could have just not done the deal, ended up with the money left lying there at the end of the year, and forfeited however much it was, with nothing in return. I prefer the two tradeable assets, at no extra cost.

 

[Draco]

(with TEN likes)

Blah blah. If you don't know the difference between "what we gave up" and "what we could have gotten" I can't help you.

We know what we got. You are guessing at what we could have gotten. I believe your guess is wrong and you overvalue our leverage in this trade.

 

[jlprk]

Now you're just making up shit. I expect more from you. Sad.

What the hell? You want me to quote them all? I'm plowing through acres of sarcastic manure in the middle of the thread.

So do you want me to cite them for you in a big long post? Are you on acid, or did you simply recently go blind?

The number is 75K or 150K, often posted as the only price we paid, in effect. I'll go through the pages if you want me to make a long post to show you.

 

[Draco]

Just before making the deal with us, they dealt Christmas to the Pacers for a 2019 2nd rounder.

I would rather have Christmas (who more than a few people think is a sleeper) and one over-the-horizon pick than what we got. YMMV.

I believe its safe to assume Neil didn't want Christmas. We already have 14 players with guaranteed contracts. I'm sure the team scouted him at the draft; if they aren't interested then a future pick has far more value.

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Roughly translated as: "The logic of your position is irrelevant; I have already decided that my purely speculative opinion is fact, despite any potential evidence or argument to the contrary."

Only 3 years of failure...

It's more than enuff.

 

[Draco]

He could have gotten more and I think their next years late round first round pick. I will ask again, who was helping who here? It was Portland helping Cleveland. If they weren't willing to part with a their late first, I would have told them to get lost and don't come back until they were ready to part with it.

I'm with you on this. But I just think he is very weak at his job. And I'm in awe the lengths some of these posters will go to protect him.

I don't believe there is any chance a team gives up a first round pick for this type of deal that may very well net them nothing. Think of it from the other end; would we have traded Kaman and a first round pick at the draft to get a trade exception? No change in hell. A trade needs to make sense to both teams. Other NBA teams are interested in Miller and would've for sure taken him with a worse second round pick than we got. Haywoods contract can be cut. Doing those moves would've saved the Cavs the same amount of money under the luxury tax.