OT How bout them Mariners (7 Viewers)

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Shaboid said:
He'll get his at bats as a DH, no doubt, but if he wants to catch a particular pitcher or work on something behind the dish, you let him. He's the engine of this team. Him catching a couple/few innings over the next three games isn't a big deal.
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Agreed. Cal runs the ship. If he wants to, you don't say no.
 
Strenuus said:
We should have paid him the first time around. Travesty we had such a glaring hole at third base because we didnt want to pay him.

But now we have to pay for Nailz and Suarez, and we better!

I was always shocked when people were saying "Naylor? Why?" Dude has been so consistent his entire career, I was so fucking excited to get him and I knew everyone would love him.
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Are we under the cap? Is he a restricted free agent?
 
THE HCP said:
Saw something once where the lowest payrolls NEVER win or even make the playoffs though.
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The rays were perennial playoff teams and they had the lowest payroll.

Marlins won twice and then shipped everyone to different teams so as not to pay them.
 
THE HCP said:
Why is that. Is that not a position that is usually an offensive weapon?
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Catcher is seen as the worst hitting position player, easily.

Joe Mauer, and maybe yadi are the two best that come to mind... yogi Berra too.

But most catchers are awful at hitting because its a mentally and physically demanding job just to be catcher.

That's why this is so rare.
 
Strenuus said:
The rays were perennial playoff teams and they had the lowest payroll.

Marlins won twice and then shipped everyone to different teams so as not to pay them.
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So this is the norm then? Or are these special situations rare ones?
 
THE HCP said:
So this is the norm then? Or are these special situations rare ones?
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When you’re involved in every single pitch of a game like a catcher is, it takes its toll. Anything that player does offensively is just gravy.

I caught for a few years in Babe Ruth and it was taxing and physically demanding even as a young pup.

When I got to high school I just wanted to sit in the outfield where I could pick my butt.

They put me at 3rd base instead.
 
Strenuus said:
Catcher is seen as the worst hitting position player, easily.

Joe Mauer, and maybe yadi are the two best that come to mind... yogi Berra too.

But most catchers are awful at hitting because its a mentally and physically demanding job just to be catcher.

That's why this is so rare.
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Pitchers are the worst hitters without question.
 
THE HCP said:
So this is the norm then? Or are these special situations rare ones?
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Its fairly regular. Diamondbacks a couple years ago, Cardinals with Freese, etc. You may have one big name guy, but massive money just doesnt win in baseball, too many variables, long seasons, etc.
 
Strenuus said:
Its fairly regular. Diamondbacks a couple years ago, Cardinals with Freese, etc. You may have one big name guy, but massive money just doesnt win in baseball, too many variables, long seasons, etc.
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Cmon dude? The Yankees have won the World Series 27 times BECAUSE of money. Please just stop.
 
kjironman1 said:
Cmon dude? The Yankees have won the World Series 27 times BECAUSE of money. Please just stop.
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Huh? 80% of those championships were done before money became the way money is now. They havent won a championship in 16 years and only 2 this century and 6 in the last 50 years.

I hate the Yankees as much as the next person, but its foolish to say money actually wins in baseball on a regular basis.

Given their expectations every year (world series or bust) they have been actually underperformed by all metrics despite usually having a top 3 payroll.

Baseball and money have drastically changed, but it has not made teams infinitely better. Look at the mets, the Dodgers, etc. Yes the Dodgers have won (covid shortened season and last year)..

The last 10 championships won, you say?

2015: Royals
2016: Cubs
2017: Astros
2018:Red Sox
2019: Nationals
2020: Dodgers (shortened by Covid)
2021: Braves
2022: Astros
2023: Rangers
2024: Dodgers

30% by a big payroll.

I can go back 10 years prior and the giants won 3, Phillies, white Sox, Rockies made the WS in 07. People are getting to the dance despite their payroll.

Its not a foolish thing to say the money isnt winning. Id take a 70% chance in a decade to at least get to the dance (see: Rangers in back to back years), then spend hundreds of millions to maybe get far, but realize baseball is really fucking random, especially if you got two elite pitchers, a bullpen, and good contact guys with one power hitter and a speedy guy. In the playoffs, that gets you really far, and you dont have to break the bank for it.
 
Strenuus said:
Huh? 80% of those championships were done before money became the way money is now. They havent won a championship in 16 years and only 2 this century and 6 in the last 50 years.

I hate the Yankees as much as the next person, but its foolish to say money actually wins in baseball on a regular basis.

Given their expectations every year (world series or bust) they have been actually underperformed by all metrics despite usually having a top 3 payroll.

Baseball and money have drastically changed, but it has not made teams infinitely better. Look at the mets, the Dodgers, etc. Yes the Dodgers have won (covid shortened season and last year)..

The last 10 championships won, you say?

2015: Royals
2016: Cubs
2017: Astros
2018:Red Sox
2019: Nationals
2020: Dodgers (shortened by Covid)
2021: Braves
2022: Astros
2023: Rangers
2024: Dodgers

30% by a big payroll.

I can go back 10 years prior and the giants won 3, Phillies, white Sox, Rockies made the WS in 07. People are getting to the dance despite their payroll.

Its not a foolish thing to say the money isnt winning. Id take a 70% chance in a decade to at least get to the dance (see: Rangers in back to back years), then spend hundreds of millions to maybe get far, but realize baseball is really fucking random, especially if you got two elite pitchers, a bullpen, and good contact guys with one power hitter and a speedy guy. In the playoffs, that gets you really far, and you dont have to break the bank for it.
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Again. The Dodgers currently have the highest payroll.
This is a stupid conversation. The Yankees and Dodgers spend the most and are in the pennant race every year. Do other teams win? Absolutely because it’s baseball and obviously anything can happen and a bunch of factors always come into play.
BUT! You have to be in the post season to win and the teams that pay are the teams that get there consistently.
What happens is the other teams get a group of good players around one or two stars and they win. Then the Yankees and Dodgers go after those players and buy the best.
You can post against this all you want but in the last 40 years the teams that spend have consistently been in the running.
 
kjironman1 said:
Again. The Dodgers currently have the highest payroll.
This is a stupid conversation. The Yankees and Dodgers spend the most and are in the pennant race every year. Do other teams win? Absolutely because it’s baseball and obviously anything can happen and a bunch of factors always come into play.
BUT! You have to be in the post season to win and the teams that pay are the teams that get there consistently.
What happens is the other teams get a group of good players around one or two stars and they win. Then the Yankees and Dodgers go after those players and buy the best.
You can post against this all you want but in the last 40 years the teams that spend have consistently been in the running.
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In the running, yes... winning, no.

I can go into the details to prove it, but im on a cell phone. We will agree to disagree, but the numbers are there.

Im just happy that big payroll teams arent guaranteed anything. They consistently falter, which is good.
 
Strenuus said:
Catcher is seen as the worst hitting position player, easily.

Joe Mauer, and maybe yadi are the two best that come to mind... yogi Berra too.

But most catchers are awful at hitting because its a mentally and physically demanding job just to be catcher.

That's why this is so rare.
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What about the guy who was with the rangers forever and maybe Mets? Rodriquez?
 
Strenuus said:
In the running, yes... winning, no.

I can go into the details to prove it, but im on a cell phone. We will agree to disagree, but the numbers are there.

Im just happy that big payroll teams arent guaranteed anything. They consistently falter, which is good.
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I wanted to know if the teams with higher payrolls are better than those who aren’t. Every year, are the teams who make the playoffs the higher paid teams than those who don’t?
 
kjironman1 said:
Again. The Dodgers currently have the highest payroll.
This is a stupid conversation. The Yankees and Dodgers spend the most and are in the pennant race every year. Do other teams win? Absolutely because it’s baseball and obviously anything can happen and a bunch of factors always come into play.
BUT! You have to be in the post season to win and the teams that pay are the teams that get there consistently.
What happens is the other teams get a group of good players around one or two stars and they win. Then the Yankees and Dodgers go after those players and buy the best.
You can post against this all you want but in the last 40 years the teams that spend have consistently been in the running.
Click to expand...

Pitching always wins in playoff baseball. Yankees staff is sus. I’d be super surprised if they make it out of the 1st round.
 
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