How long of a leash should Chauncey have?

[HailBlazers]

well, SGA wasn't a Thunder pick when he was drafted either, so there's that

the biggest factor is that OKC got a hell of a lot more, SOONER, for PG13 than Portland got for Dame. They got SGA + Gallinari (traded for a 2nd). Meaning their baseline started with a top-10 player that, in and of itself, beats the return Portland got for Dame. And, OKC got FOUR 1st round picks: 18th in 2021 (Tre Mann - looking like a bust); 12th in 2022 (Jalen Williams - quality starter); and two more 1st's in 2024 & 2026; and a 2025 swap option

to summarize, right now, for PG13, OKC has SGA, Jalen Williams, & Tre Mann. For Dame, Portland has Brogdon, Williams, & Camara. Clearly, OKC did better, but as you said, that trade is about 4 years old while Portland's is 7 months old (I counted Nurkic + Little + Keon for Ayton a separate deal....and I don't count it as a very good deal for Portland)

as for lottery picks, yeah, OKC has a leg up the ladder with Giddey. But Jalen Williams + Holmgren is a very fair comparison to Sharpe + Scoot. Both Williams & Sharpe are in their 2nd seasons; both Holmgren and Scoot are rookies. Yes, the OKC duo is a bit older, but there is no experience advantage

Right now, Williams is better than Sharpe; by quite a bit actually. I don't think that advantage will last, but Sharpe is still wildly inconsistent with poor efficiency compared to Williams. The Chet vs Scoot match-up is a giant slam dunk advantage right now for OKC. That probably has more staying power.

if Brogdon is traded for a late 1st and filler, it might end up that OKC traded PG13 for SGA + Williams and Portland traded Dame for Camara + Robert Williams in street clothes. The ancillary picks are about even

Hopefully we'll draft Sarr to even it out.

 

[MickZagger]

well, SGA wasn't a Thunder pick when he was drafted either, so there's that

the biggest factor is that OKC got a hell of a lot more, SOONER, for PG13 than Portland got for Dame. They got SGA + Gallinari (traded for a 2nd). Meaning their baseline started with a top-10 player that, in and of itself, beats the return Portland got for Dame. And, OKC got FOUR 1st round picks: 18th in 2021 (Tre Mann - looking like a bust); 12th in 2022 (Jalen Williams - quality starter); and two more 1st's in 2024 & 2026; and a 2025 swap option

to summarize, right now, for PG13, OKC has SGA, Jalen Williams, & Tre Mann. For Dame, Portland has Brogdon, Williams, & Camara. Clearly, OKC did better, but as you said, that trade is about 4 years old while Portland's is 7 months old (I counted Nurkic + Little + Keon for Ayton a separate deal....and I don't count it as a very good deal for Portland)

as for lottery picks, yeah, OKC has a leg up the ladder with Giddey. But Jalen Williams + Holmgren is a very fair comparison to Sharpe + Scoot. Both Williams & Sharpe are in their 2nd seasons; both Holmgren and Scoot are rookies. Yes, the OKC duo is a bit older, but there is no experience advantage

Right now, Williams is better than Sharpe; by quite a bit actually. I don't think that advantage will last, but Sharpe is still wildly inconsistent with poor efficiency compared to Williams. The Chet vs Scoot match-up is a giant slam dunk advantage right now for OKC. That probably has more staying power.

if Brogdon is traded for a late 1st and filler, it might end up that OKC traded PG13 for SGA + Williams and Portland traded Dame for Camara + Robert Williams in street clothes. The ancillary picks are about even

I want David Adelman as head coach

 

[kjironman1]

(I counted Nurkic + Little + Keon for Ayton a separate deal

Just a minor nit picking point but-

For Dame, Portland has Brogdon, Williams, & Camara.

If you count the Nurk deal as separate you probably should not include Camara in the Dame deal.

The rest seems like really good position to me.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Should the Blazers be keeping an eye on the Darvin Ham situation? I know before Billups there were some people in this forum that wanted him.

 

[julius]

well, SGA wasn't a Thunder pick when he was drafted either, so there's that

the biggest factor is that OKC got a hell of a lot more, SOONER, for PG13 than Portland got for Dame. They got SGA + Gallinari (traded for a 2nd). Meaning their baseline started with a top-10 player that, in and of itself, beats the return Portland got for Dame. And, OKC got FOUR 1st round picks: 18th in 2021 (Tre Mann - looking like a bust); 12th in 2022 (Jalen Williams - quality starter); and two more 1st's in 2024 & 2026; and a 2025 swap option

to summarize, right now, for PG13, OKC has SGA, Jalen Williams, & Tre Mann. For Dame, Portland has Brogdon, Williams, & Camara. Clearly, OKC did better, but as you said, that trade is about 4 years old while Portland's is 7 months old (I counted Nurkic + Little + Keon for Ayton a separate deal....and I don't count it as a very good deal for Portland)

as for lottery picks, yeah, OKC has a leg up the ladder with Giddey. But Jalen Williams + Holmgren is a very fair comparison to Sharpe + Scoot. Both Williams & Sharpe are in their 2nd seasons; both Holmgren and Scoot are rookies. Yes, the OKC duo is a bit older, but there is no experience advantage

Right now, Williams is better than Sharpe; by quite a bit actually. I don't think that advantage will last, but Sharpe is still wildly inconsistent with poor efficiency compared to Williams. The Chet vs Scoot match-up is a giant slam dunk advantage right now for OKC. That probably has more staying power.

if Brogdon is traded for a late 1st and filler, it might end up that OKC traded PG13 for SGA + Williams and Portland traded Dame for Camara + Robert Williams in street clothes. The ancillary picks are about even

SGA has been on the thunder for all but his rookie year. Malcolm and DeAndre have been Blazers for 4 months and fewer than 30 total games.

 

[THE HCP]

I want David Adelman as head coach

His ENTIRE family will drink to that. (if you know, you know)

 

[Whyachi]

what? He has been getting on players all the time, what are you smoking?

the camera pans over so we can see Coach directing the guards on offense, give them some handy tips. Heck, one time Ayton got chewed out for playing drop instead of blitz coverage. That was the talk of the town, look at Billups coaching up these guys. Wow, wow.

We saw the Mavs cooking the Blazers over & over & over & over on simple backdoor cuts. Coach Billups had his hands in his pockets waiting for the clock to run out. If the head coach is going to "check out" of the games, then his players will too.

 

[Strenuus]

Oh, you mean the team with all those lottery picks? I was given to understand that Lottery Picks = talent = success.

You just said "good coach", don't extend the goalposts when your original point was debunked.

Appreciated the effort though.

 

[ehizzy3]

*Stares in Detroit*

You just said "good coach", don't extend the goalposts when your original point was debunked.

Appreciated the effort though.

he also said talented, which Detroit and SA have very little

 

[THE HCP]

I've always believed a team with tons of talent and a shit coach can win.......not the other way around.

 

[riverman]

I've always believed a team with tons of talent and a shit coach can win.......not the other way around.

I've always believed that having a solid playbook with any NBA players you can play 500 ball at least. .....69 wins over two and a half seasons and Dame won most of those on his own. Yeah, you can buy a team or you can build a team and buy the best coach out there to get them winning. Choices. Shae, Scoot, Ayton, Grant, Ant, Tisse, Camara,Brogdan....that's enough talent to beat the Wizards eh? Explain that to me... If we were the Lakers or any big franchise we'd have a new coach already. I don't believe tanking is good basketball so don't use that excuse on me

 

[wizenheimer]

SGA has been on the thunder for all but his rookie year. Malcolm and DeAndre have been Blazers for 4 months and fewer than 30 total games.

and?

Do you think Brogdon who is 31 years old is a long term Blazer? or that Ayton is anywhere close to as good as SGA, now and in the future

SGA is the main component that elevates OKC so far above Portland. OKC got him from trading PG13; Blazers got nothing like SGA in the Dame trade

 

[wizenheimer]

If you count the Nurk deal as separate you probably should not include Camara in the Dame deal.

The rest seems like really good position to me.

good point, but that makes the Dame trade even more depressing. I was kinda-sorta crediting Camara to the Dame trade because of the Grayson Allen factor. Mainly though I was thinking it's going to be a long time before Portland is a 2nd seed in the West 33 games into a season

 

[julius]

and?

Do you think Brogdon who is 31 years old is a long term Blazer? or that Ayton is anywhere close to as good as SGA, now and in the future

SGA is the main component that elevates OKC so far above Portland. OKC got him from trading PG13; Blazers got nothing like SGA in the Dame trade

You're kinda proving my point.

 

[wizenheimer]

You're kinda proving my point.

in that case, I guess I missed your point

it seemed to me like you were saying that any negative comparison between the trajectories of OKC and Portland is invalid because OKC got started 2-3 years earlier.

my point was that SGA would monkey-wrench any comparison because the Blazers did not have the path to trade for a player like that

 

[Whyachi]

I've always believed a team with tons of talent and a shit coach can win.......not the other way around.

somehow winning games revolved into a talking point. Blazer fans have already been hammer stamped all season with "don't expect wins". What we did not expect was this team to get completely blasted, followed by fans receiving lectures to quit complaining after the beatings.

 

[e_blazer]

good point, but that makes the Dame trade even more depressing. I was kinda-sorta crediting Camara to the Dame trade because of the Grayson Allen factor. Mainly though I was thinking it's going to be a long time before Portland is a 2nd seed in the West 33 games into a season

Seems like it’s too soon to judge given that Brogdon and Williams are both good trade prospects and the Sonics pick could yield value. That said, the time to have netted the best return for Dame was a couple of years ago.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You just said "good coach", don't extend the goalposts when your original point was debunked.

"Debunked" lol.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I've always believed a team with tons of talent and a shit coach can win.......not the other way around.

Obviously the truth is more complicated. The talent has to mesh. The Warriors had pretty much exactly the same talent in Mark Jackson's last year and Steve Kerr's first. The Heatles didn't win in LeBron's first and last year in Miami, etc.
You can have an absurdly talented player who's a cancer. You can have a non-particularly-talented player who makes any team he's on better. I think people think Basketball is different from other sports. It's pretty clear how important coaches (managers) are in football (i.e. "soccer") - maybe the thought is in Basketball that because there are only 5 players on the court, the coach's influence is lessened? Also, it does depend on how much experience (and previous good coaching) your players have. You can have the most talented high school team in the world and it will probably lose to a really well-drilled college team with no future NBA players. The more-experienced less-talented players will know what the high school stars are trying to do, whereas the high school stars just don't understand yet how teams can beat individuals.
Essentially: the team is more important than the individuals. The 2004 Pistons had less talent by far than the Shaq-Kobe-Karl Malone-Gary Payton Lakers, but Larry Brown had made the Pistons into a unit. Some star players understand that, but it's pretty rare, as most star players have had teams built around them their whole lives and haven't had to think about the little things. What a coach has to do is get incredibly arrogant alphas to sublimate their egos for the whole. I mean, we've all seen how a player can look amazing on one team and then just not on another. If you're a super-duper star, sure, you'll be the alpha on every team and you won't have to change your game much, but look at, say, Chris Bosh. He had to completely re-invent his game to get the Heatles to work, and you can bet that took a lot of heart-to-hearts with the coaching staff.

 

[julius]

in that case, I guess I missed your point

it seemed to me like you were saying that any negative comparison between the trajectories of OKC and Portland is invalid because OKC got started 2-3 years earlier.

my point was that SGA would monkey-wrench any comparison because the Blazers did not have the path to trade for a player like that

No. I was pointing out that there's a reason why their youth is better. Because it's better and has more experience.

 

[Whyachi]

Cronin goes out and finds NBA players. He stacks them in a lineup, then hands the keys to Coach Billups. I reckon this batch of players are not "Chauncey's type of guys", because right now, this team looks as rag-tag and unmotivated as some of the historically bad teams from League history.

 

[MickZagger]

I’ve noticed Billups teams like to start out the year playing good defense but then as the season goes on they lose interest

 

[wizenheimer]

Cronin goes out and finds NBA players. He stacks them in a lineup, then hands the keys to Coach Billups. I reckon this batch of players are not "Chauncey's type of guys", because right now, this team looks as rag-tag and unmotivated as some of the historically bad teams from League history.

lol...this is his 3rd season as coach and nobody seems to really know what a Chauncey type of player is

 

[MickZagger]

lol...this is his 3rd season as coach and nobody seems to really know what a Chauncey type of player is

I thought it was Josh hart

 

[Mote]

Very sad to see the lack of continuity. No matter as to what you think of Billups as a coach, he has lost this team.

 

[THE HCP]

I've always believed that having a solid playbook with any NBA players you can play 500 ball at least.

No, you are VERY wrong. It’s about talent. “Any NBA Players”? No.

 

[THE HCP]

somehow winning games revolved into a talking point. Blazer fans have already been hammer stamped all season with "don't expect wins". What we did not expect was this team to get completely blasted, followed by fans receiving lectures to quit complaining after the beatings.

Who with any common sense about the game of basketball and the NBA, could not expect us to get completely blasted this season? I said 23 wins and a TON of ass whoopins!

 

[blazerkor]

Who with any common sense about the game of basketball and the NBA, could not expect to get completely blasted this season? I said 23 wins and a TON of ass whoopins!

I don't think we're getting to 23 this season. I think we'll trade away at least Jerami and Malcolm at the trade deadline but maybe also Ant for picks and prospects. I think at that point we'll be around 10 wins and I doubt we'll get many more than 6 more wins for the remainder of the season.

 

[Mote]

Who with any common sense about the game of basketball and the NBA, could not expect to get completely blasted this season? I said 23 wins and a TON of ass whoopins!

No argument on total wins as I was expecting 26 +/- this year. However, I did not expect to see the disconnect of focus the Blazers had tonight. There is a problem that goes far beyond talent and youth. Do I have the correct answer?... NO... but something is way off, especially considering we had, supposedly, at least two worthwhile vets on the floor the first three quarters and a coach that understands the "game".

 

[THE HCP]

I don't think we're getting to 23 this season. I think we'll trade away at least Jerami and Malcolm at the trade deadline but maybe also Ant for picks and prospects. I think at that point we'll be around 10 wins and I doubt we'll get many more than 6 more wins for the remainder of the season.

Yeah when i predict wins, I never take injuries into account. Just look at the talent level and GUESS what they’ll do. Yeah 23 ain’t looking too good right now.