How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

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Natebishop3 said:
But it's not done yet... how can you grade it?
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Thats why I give it a c+, maybe they can go to a B. For me, when you consider blowing it up with the trade of your super star and apparent rebuild how can you grade that an A from the beginning?
I hate grades anyway....
 
Hoopguru said:
Thats why I give it a c+, maybe they can go to a B. For me, when you consider blowing it up with the trade of your super star and apparent rebuild how can you grade that an A from the beginning?
I hate grades anyway....
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Here's the thing for me, I break the trade up into pieces.

Ayton for Nurk/Nas/Keon/Allen - this is an A for me. That's a very low risk potentially high reward move. Nurk needed to be traded anyway because Dame is out, and I'm not even sure if Nas would have cracked our rotation this year. Keon was in danger of being cut. We got a guy who was a #1 pick just a bit ago, he fits our window, and he's in need of a change of scenery. This is a Bob Whitsitt move.

2029 unprotected pick and 2 unprotected swaps - I consider this an A. Those picks could be worth a lot because of the age of most of the Bucks roster and the fact that they have no picks, no young talent, and they're not a free agent destination. They could be REALLY bad in six years.

Dame for Jrue - just at face value, this is an A for me because we punted. We moved Dame for an All-Star who has a much bigger market than Dame. He's on a shorter contract, and we have created an urgency for other contenders to try to keep up with Milwaukee. Jrue might bring back the same value that we would have gotten for Dame just because of the crap market that Dame had fostered with the demand. Imagine getting essentially the same value for Jrue while still getting the Milwaukee picks and Grayson Allen to help move the Ayton trade along. I think this was done masterfully.

The trade can't be completely graded until Jrue is moved, but so far, at this point, I give it an A.
 
Any win win trade is an A for me and this fits that bill. Joe has really shown he can work around one of the nastiest media spins ever thrown at him. He calmly crafted a great situation for Portland after the demand. Other than Ant he's washed his hands of the Olshey era
 
Also, just wanted to add, that there's no real urgency to trade Jrue. We have at least until the trade deadline. We wanted to move Dame because we just didn't want to deal with having Dame come into camp and all of the negativity that would have brought with it. So again, to use that term punted, I think we kicked the can down the road and we can hopefully move Jrue for the kind of haul that we wanted to get for Dame. Or at least closer to it. Nobody wanted to see Dame back in camp. Nobody wanted to see him at media day. We wanted to turn the page and hand the keys over to Scoot. Now we can do that, and Jrue can chill while we find a new home for him.
 
Samuel said:
i'm jacked. jacked to the tits.
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I actually worked with the guy they based Ryan Gosling's character on in "The Big Short". We both used to work for the Principal Transactions Group at CSFB. His real name is Greg Lippmann and Gosling's impersonation of him is spot on.
 
Those picks are great assets for whoever will be our GM in 5-6 years. I know Cronin’s planning on it, but doubtful
 
Holiday/Grant trade package at the trade deadline might net us a budding young star from a team that could possibly going all in because they started the year hot. We shall see.
 
Natebishop3 said:
They punished Dallas before the new rules.
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Exactly. Now that they have a framework and new rules to abide by, I don’t think they can retroactively punish us. I could be wrong though.

And if they did, it would most likely be a fine at most.
 
They'll investigate like they did the Gary Payton II bullshit and it'll come to nothing. I don't see how they can backtrack that far. That'd open up a whole can of worms for traded players grumbling about their old team and throwing it under the bus because back in the day...they tanked because we were banged up anyway.
 
Natebishop3 said:
They punished Dallas before the new rules.
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Dallas blatantly tanked a game at halftime and talked about it afterwards. It got tons of national press.

and the penalty was a $750K fine. And the NBA explicitly said the fine was because Dallas still had a playoff berth on the line and their actions harmed the league. Portland was 9 games under .500 when Dame sat, and they were 13th seed. The 'investigation' is likely to go nowhere because the NBA doesn't care about bad teams being bad. If anything, it would result in a slap on the wrist like a 250K fine, probably less
 
wizenheimer said:
Dallas blatantly tanked a game at halftime and talked about it afterwards. It got tons of national press.

and the penalty was a $750K fine. And the NBA explicitly said the fine was because Dallas still had a playoff berth on the line and their actions harmed the league. Portland was 9 games under .500 when Dame sat, and they were 13th seed. The 'investigation' is likely to go nowhere because the NBA doesn't care about bad teams being bad. If anything, it would result in a slap on the wrist like a 250K fine, probably less
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I hope you’re right.
 
Mediocre Man said:
If the deal was indeed Lowry, Herro, Jovic, 3 firsts then I would have rather had that than Holiday, a pick and 2 pick swaps….depending on what we can get for Holiday
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all day the talk of Bay Area sportstalk was how can the W's get Jrue from Portland? The mid-day consensus was it would take at least CP3's expiring deal (to match dollars), Kuminga and their 2026 1st. The other consensus was the Clippers would probably put together a better package.

Holiday is going to bring back a haul

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
all day the talk of Bay Area sportstalk was how can the W's get Jrue from Portland? The mid-day consensus was it would take at least CP3's expiring deal (to match dollars), Kuminga and their 2026 1st. The other consensus was the Clippers would probably put together a better package.

Holiday is going to bring back a haul

STOMP
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Id do that. Then Id look to trade CP3 to either Clippers (Batum & Kenyon Martin) or Heat (Lowry & Jovic)
In both cases we get a good mentor for the team and a young guy with some promise
 
wizenheimer said:
Dallas blatantly tanked a game at halftime and talked about it afterwards. It got tons of national press.

and the penalty was a $750K fine. And the NBA explicitly said the fine was because Dallas still had a playoff berth on the line and their actions harmed the league. Portland was 9 games under .500 when Dame sat, and they were 13th seed. The 'investigation' is likely to go nowhere because the NBA doesn't care about bad teams being bad. If anything, it would result in a slap on the wrist like a 250K fine, probably less
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Coach Billups was yanking Shaedon out the middle of game for "playing too good" during super duper tank mode. In the ultimate ultimate tank battle vs. Spurs, Coach Billups benched Watford for the entire 4th quarter because he had helped the Blazers take the lead.

Now "tanking" penalties typically refer to benching superstars, nobody cares about bench grunts. The NBA isn't stupid, every crummy team tanks every year. But there was plenty of blatant "in game" active tanking by Portland. Coach Billups had a weird looking smile while doing it. Great for Blazers lottery ... not so good for NBA reputation of competitive professional sports.
 
Natebishop3 said:
No?

Teams have been tanking for decades. But players didn’t come out and throw them under the bus.
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Typically the people involved in the tanking benefit by not being honest about it. In this case, that isn't true.

While I wouldn't consider Dame the "victim" in this circumstance, blaming the whistleblower and not the bad-actor is an odd stance to me. But tribalism can make people do things that aren't always logical.

At the end of the day, I think we all know the Blazers did tank. I think we also know the benefit of tanking was Scoot, and I seriously doubt if there is a punishment, it will out-weigh the benefit.
 
Tince said:
Typically the people involved in the tanking benefit by not being honest about it. In this case, that isn't true.

While I wouldn't consider Dame the "victim" in this circumstance, blaming the whistleblower and not the bad-actor is an odd stance to me. But tribalism can make people do things that aren't always logical.

At the end of the day, I think we all know the Blazers did tank. I think we also know the benefit of tanking was Scoot, and I seriously doubt if there is a punishment, it will out-weigh the benefit.
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But it’s just one more example of trying to hurt the team on his way out the door.

It’s like he doesn’t understand that him hurting the team that we love will also, by proxy, hurt the fans that he supposedly loves.
 
Natebishop3 said:
But it’s just one more example of trying to hurt the team on his way out the door.

It’s like he doesn’t understand that him hurting the team that we love will also, by proxy, hurt the fans that he supposedly loves.
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The game of Dame is hurting the Blazers, when he supposedly loves them vs the Blazers are lying to Dame and not doing right by him, despite supposedly loving him, is tiresome to me. It is possible to love someone/something and still be hurt by them and not do everything in your power to set them up in the best situation possible. I tend to believe we've seen that play out on both sides in this case. The people insistent on making Dame or Cronin out to be the bad guy is weird to me, they both share responsibility in this not working and how it played out, along with a few others.

Regardless, IF the Blazers front office/coaches did break the rules, that is the fault of the Blazers and nobody else. Doesn't matter if other people do it. Doesn't matter how the league finds out about it. The people responsible are the people to blame for any consequences.
 
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