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Denny Crane said:
There's the same "hard evidence" of life. You don't know that water will boil at 212F the next time you try. It also matters if you try at the top of the mountain or at sea level or with a lid on the pot.

I get why smart people think there is life elsewhere. It's one thing to say, "it sure seems likely," and another to say "it's a certainty" (virtual or not).

One says "what's been observed suggests it to be likely." This may or may not be true, but there is actual evidence. Experience of life here and knowledge about how it works and what the rest of the universe is made of.
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Yes yes Denny, we know about water. But let us be honest. When you believe in something, anything, without any evidence to support the believe, that is faith. Usually it is believe in God. But it also has this definition, "Loyalty or allegiance to a cause".
 
MarAzul said:
Yes yes Denny, we know about water. But let us be honest. When you believe in something, anything, without any evidence to support the believe, that is faith. Usually it is believe in God. But it also has this definition, "Loyalty or allegiance to a cause".
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The "without any evidence" part of you claim is bogus.

There is evidence. There's life on earth. Life that exists here in harsh conditions. The elements that make up every species ever known to live here are observable in quantities in space.

It's not like belief in unicorns, of which there is little convincing evidence whatsoever.
 
I know those things are evidence, and you claimed there is none. There is no completing the circle, just correcting your error.
 
tlongII said:
And Creationists think life only exists on Earth. LOL.
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Denny Crane said:
I know those things are evidence, and you claimed there is none. There is no completing the circle, just correcting your error.
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Yes you completed the circle.
Life does exist on earth. tlongs original assertion about "Creationists" thinking implies it was created here.
I think the evidence to date supports that assertion. All the elements required are here, All the known steps needed to use those elements are known, save one, the creation.

Now to assert that there is evidence that life exists beyond Earth because everything is in place there also
is not evidence. It is faith that life can spontaneously come to be without the creator. We are back to scratch.
 
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This is pretty funny...

tlong laughs at Creationists because they believe life only exists on Earth. When I said intelligent life, he said "I didn't say that", but then later said "I believe intelligent life exists outside of Earth". So my statement that "Laughing at creationists believe that our planet is the only intelligent life stands".

It's even more laughable that Denny is arguing with the creationists about life outside Earth is probable and scientists agree, then argues with jlpk that life outside of Earth is highly improbable.

What we have here is Denny straddling the fence. He will argue for the sake of arguing because a creationist brings up the argument, but the reality of his belief is "He doesn't believe there is life outside of Earth" when debating an atheist. In other words, Denny is trolling the creationists and agreeing with them at the same time! LOL
 
magnifier661 said:
This is pretty funny...

tlong laughs at Creationists because they believe life only exists on Earth. When I said intelligent life, he said "I didn't say that", but then later said "I believe intelligent life exists outside of Earth". So my statement that "Laughing at creationists believe that our planet is the only intelligent life stands".

It's even more laughable that Denny is arguing with the creationists about life outside Earth is probable and scientists agree, then argues with jlpk that life outside of Earth is highly improbable.

What we have here is Denny straddling the fence. He will argue for the sake of arguing because a creationist brings up the argument, but the reality of his belief is "He doesn't believe there is life outside of Earth" when debating an atheist. In other words, Denny is trolling the creationists and agreeing with them at the same time! LOL
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Live outside earth is probable. The argument is never what you claim it is. The question is HOW PROBABLE.

To me the probability is low at this point. However, if we find one microbe anywhere in the solar system outside of earth that did not originate on earth, then that is good reason to expect life to exist just about everywhere - high probability.
 
MarAzul said:
Now to assert that there is evidence that life exists beyond Earth because everything is in place there also
is not evidence..
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Actually, it is evidence. You saying it isn't doesn't make it not so :)
 
Denny Crane said:
Live outside earth is probable. The argument is never what you claim it is. The question is HOW PROBABLE.

To me the probability is low at this point. However, if we find one microbe anywhere in the solar system outside of earth that did not originate on earth, then that is good reason to expect life to exist just about everywhere - high probability.
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But then you post this

Denny Crane said:
It's not certain there is life elsewhere at all. Your arithmetic skills lack the possibility of NO POSSIBILITY. Like there's gazillions of stars and planets but the odds of one having a statue of Al Gore carved in ice on it is zero. The odds of there being one on Earth is 1:1.

There is a giant leap to certainty by assuming there is some ascribed chance. You ascribe a "fewer than 1%" chance, which you cannot possibly know to be true or not. The chance could be 1:1x10^1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, which would make even life on Earth improbable and sheer luck that we made it at all.

I've seen lots of scientists who are certain and say so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...xist-on-Earth-like-planet-scientists-say.html

Alien life certain to exist on Earth-like planet, scientists say
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So is it highly probable or high improbable? You have argued both sides... Which do you believe?
 
magnifier661 said:
But then you post this



So is it highly probable or high improbable? You have argued both sides... Which do you believe?
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What I believe is nobody knows the probability.

It's not zero because there's life on earth.

The evidence suggests there should be life out there. That's why people are spending lots of money trying to detect it.

The issue of detection is that it is currently being done from VERY far away. You know, like Hawaii is from Oregon in that analogy that went way over your head.
 
Denny Crane said:
What I believe is nobody knows the probability.

It's not zero because there's life on earth.

The evidence suggests there should be life out there. That's why people are spending lots of money trying to detect it.

The issue of detection is that it is currently being done from VERY far away. You know, like Hawaii is from Oregon in that analogy that went way over your head.
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Weird that you use this for your conclusion in this argument, but completely ignore this same concept for others.

I get it man. You accept things when it supports your argument, but will ignore it when it doesn't. At least that became apparent.
 
Other arguments that lack any evidence whatsoever?

You bet I don't accept them.

:lol:
 
Denny Crane said:
Other arguments that lack any evidence whatsoever?

You bet I don't accept them.

:lol:
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No Denny, this has been your trademark throughout any debate, regardless if it's religious, science, political or even basketball. The proof is all over this board.

No wonder no one takes you seriously when you partake in a debate with them
 
I question claims I see people make. One should be that sort of skeptic, or you will be fooled into believing something untrue.

Where you can, verify.

Sorry your claims don't stand up to scrutiny. That's not my fault.

TLong was right.
 
Denny Crane said:
I question claims I see people make. One should be that sort of skeptic, or you will be fooled into believing something untrue.

Where you can, verify.

Sorry your claims don't stand up to scrutiny. That's not my fault.

TLong was right.
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Lmao if you say so, but even in this thread you've agreed and disagreed with him! Hahahaha

Maybe we should just call you two face then
 
In this thread, I've said three words.

TLong is right.

CREATIONwiki.com for the win.

I've not argued against his assertion, because it stood up to scrutiny. Get it?
 
Denny Crane said:
In this thread, I've said three words.

TLong is right.

CREATIONwiki.com for the win.

I've not argued against his assertion, because it stood up to scrutiny. Get it?
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You've said way more than 3 words, but we all know you Denny. This is why Barfo, jlpk and anyone else that argues with you usually beats you to the ground.

Your denial of the fact you straddled the fence is when you conceded.

End of story
 
TLong is right.

End of that story.

It was you who misquoted the scientist who says life is rare as if it meant only on earth.

That started a very different discussion about how rare life might be. That has nothing to do with TLong being right.

His claim stands up to scrutiny. Yours rarely do.

I've learned to live with that about you.
 
The article I posted is a true quote. It was from "national geographic" so the source is reputable. In this thread you even admitted that you don't believe life exists outside of Earth. You know being a skeptic and all.

Skeptical about "Life outside this planet" means you find it hard to believe, so you would lean toward the "non-belief" position.

You were the demise all by yourself. My statement was that even atheist don't believe life exists outside this planet. You argued it didn't, therefor you actually proved for me (thank you btw), that not only do Christians believe this. All I needed is one person, outside the Christian perspective that shares the same belief (life does not exist outside planet earth)

Can't wait to hear your back assword excuse from here.
 
Denny Crane said:
I'm a skeptic. It seems to me that if life were everywhere, we'd easily detect it. We don't.

There is a lot of evidence that suggests it should arise all over the place, yet we can't find it in our own solar system.

Focus on earth-like planets in the goldilocks zone may be incomplete. The earth has a lot of other features, like plate tectonics and a magnetosphere and a huge moon in comparison to the planet size.

There's a decent sized list of stars within just 21 light years here: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/astro/nearstar.html. If there were any advanced life on planets within 21 light years, it seems we'd be able to watch their TV shows and hear their radio broadcasts.

I have no reason to believe anything but the origin of life is an improbable event. If you put less optimistic numbers into the Drake equation, you come up with number of civilizations less than one.
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No mags. I've come to accept that you misstate facts and statements that don't suit you.

I have no reason to believe anything but the origin of life is an improbable event.

To you, "improbable" means "impossible."

Not in the English language, bro.

So there's what I wrote, and what you turned into something else and claim I wrote that. Again, you don't stand up to scrutiny.

It's really not that hard to scroll back through the thread and quote the actual words.

You misquoted TLong, too.
 
magnifier661 said:
Wow, you are seriously posting like a "blockhead".

The question is "Is it really laughable to believe that our planet is the only known life in this universe?"

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/solar-system/life-beyond-earth/

We all have our suppositions, our scenarios. The late astronomer Carl Sagan estimated that there are a million technological civilizations in our galaxy alone. His more conservative colleague Frank Drake offers the number 10,000. John Oro, a pioneering comet researcher, calculates that the Milky Way is sprinkled with a hundred civilizations. And finally there are skeptics like Ben Zuckerman, an astronomer at UCLA, who thinks we may as well be alone in this galaxy if not in the universe.

All the estimates are highly speculative. The fact is that there is no conclusive evidence of any life beyond Earth. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as various pundits have wisely noted. But still we don't have any solid knowledge about a single alien microbe, a solitary spore, much less the hubcap from a passing alien starship.
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"who thinks we may as well be" is not the same thing as "who thinks we are."

Credible source. Mis characterized what it said.

Good grief.

All the estimates are highly speculative. I said the same thing - that nobody knows the true probability. I also wrote that there is no conclusive proof of life elsewhere.

Quibble away.
 
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When something is 99.999999999999999999999999999999% certain, it's okay to be lazy and just call it certain, even though it's really only 99.999999999999999999999999999999% certain.

99.999999999999999999999999999999% of people think this way. Only mathematicians require proof of common sense.
 
Show me this 99.99999999% math.
 
This is fun!

upload_2015-1-9_17-53-56.png

Note that .03 is not zero.
 
If you're not so optimistic about the guess for the various variables, you don't get the 99.99999999% surety kind of results.

upload_2015-1-9_17-56-57.png
 
50-50 is very optimistic., for starters. I concede my probabilities are equally a guess. We don't know if it is 50-50 or very close to 0.

If it were 50-50 and that many habitable planets, then surely there'd be 50 of those "hundred" stars within 21 light years with life. Or at least one. So much for optimism.

50% of 160 in our stellar neighborhood would be 80. ;)

Your estimate for number of habitable planets is an enormous number, an outlier, and tens of magnitudes (at least) more than the others.

And the actual number we know about, in theory, is 21.

http://phl.upr.edu/projects/habitable-exoplanets-catalog
 
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