I thought Nate wanted to run more?

[Mediocre Man]

He wrote himself off as a fan. In sports winning is success and he doesn't want that. Doesn't matter to me the justification.

Sorta like The Spurs.

They were horrible, and then landed Robinson, and horrible again, and landed Duncan. So those fans that didn't want them to succeed that year so they had a better chance at Timmy were not real fans? The Rocket fans that didn't want them to succeed that particular year so they could get Hakeem ween't real fans?

I thik the difference here is that some fans think this is the year we will contend, and others think we are still a year or two away.

 

[RR7]

Sorta like The Spurs.

They were horrible, and then landed Robinson, and horrible again, and landed Duncan. So those fans that didn't want them to succeed that year so they had a better chance at Timmy were not real fans? The Rocket fans that didn't want them to succeed that particular year so they could get Hakeem ween't real fans?

I thik the difference here is that some fans think this is the year we will contend, and others think we are still a year or two away.

The SA example is pretty bad, IMO. I doubt any Spurs fans were wishing for Robinson to go down, and for them to be horrible. They only wished to be horrible AFTER it was obvious they would be, because of their best player getting hurt. That's quite different than "I don't like our coach, so I hope we fail, just to prove to other people on the internet that I was right about our coach."

 

[Natebishop3]

He wrote himself off as a fan. In sports winning is success and he doesn't want that. Doesn't matter to me the justification.

While most Blazer fans took time off during our terrible years, I was there. I was in the Garden when there were under 10k people. You could literally count the heads in the upper deck.

I was the guy trying to keep things positive during some of the darkest times of Blazers history.

If you want to talk to me about being a "fan", that's up to you, but my outlook on sports is forever changed. I don't just blindly support my teams. There are good things and there are bad things with every team. The Blazers have their positives, and they have their negatives.

Personally, I think Nate is a great person, a great motivator, but a terrible coach. If it takes a bad season to get him gone, and shut up all the people who like to point to his record, so be it.

I'm not rooting for the team to lose. Losses still suck. I was just as upset during the playoffs as anyone else. But I do not believe Nate is the guy who is going to take us all the way. I think the team has outgrown him.

Personally, I think any success this season will be inspite of Nate, and mostly because of Roy, Oden, and Aldridge.

 

[Mediocre Man]

The SA example is pretty bad, IMO. I doubt any Spurs fans were wishing for Robinson to go down, and for them to be horrible. They only wished to be horrible AFTER it was obvious they would be, because of their best player getting hurt. That's quite different than "I don't like our coach, so I hope we fail, just to prove to other people on the internet that I was right about our coach."

Should we never make trades then either?

I mean why trade a productive player?

 

[RR7]

Yeah, I dunno where you're trying to go with that, and why, but you're on your own with whatever the hell you are trying to get at.

 

[Mediocre Man]

While most Blazer fans took time off during our terrible years, I was there. I was in the Garden when there were under 10k people. You could literally count the heads in the upper deck.

I was the guy trying to keep things positive during some of the darkest times of Blazers history.

If you want to talk to me about being a "fan", that's up to you, but my outlook on sports is forever changed. I don't just blindly support my teams. There are good things and there are bad things with every team. The Blazers have their positives, and they have their negatives.

Personally, I think Nate is a great person, a great motivator, but a terrible coach. If it takes a bad season to get him gone, and shut up all the people who like to point to his record, so be it.

I'm not rooting for the team to lose. Losses still suck. I was just as upset during the playoffs as anyone else. But I do not believe Nate is the guy who is going to take us all the way. I think the team has outgrown him.

Personally, I think any success this season will be inspite of Nate, and mostly because of Roy, Oden, and Aldridge.

The increase in win totals since Roy and LA got here has been because of those two.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yeah, I dunno where you're trying to go with that, and why, but you're on your own with whatever the hell you are trying to get at.

Well, Nate is a ok coach, but he's not the best. If you could get rid of him for a coach most thought would be better, wouldn't you?

Smae with a player. Take Trout. He's a decent player, but a player like Lebron would help us win so much more.....in theory.

 

[RR7]

Well, Nate is a ok coach, but he's not the best. If you could get rid of him for a coach most thought would be better, wouldn't you?

Smae with a player. Take Trout. He's a decent player, but a player like Lebron would help us win so much more.....in theory.

Yeah, but the analogy sucks. Would you root for Outlaw to miss every shot he takes this year, and otherwise have an attrocious year that costs us a winning season, just to get rid of him? I am all for upgrading at every spot we could. I'm not going to root for failure just to make those changes. I'd rather root for Outlaw to play well, and help us if he can, and get traded because of his increased value, or signed elsewhere because of it. Rooting for failure just to make a change is stupid in my opinion.

If we can get a better coach than Nate, great. I'm not going to root for my team to fail so that it can happen, however. I'd rather a Bulls situation, where we progress, but not quite far enough for our GM, and we make a change, as opposed to falling back, and having to bring in someone new to progress further.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, but the analogy sucks. Would you root for Outlaw to miss every shot he takes this year, and otherwise have an attrocious year that costs us a winning season, just to get rid of him? I am all for upgrading at every spot we could. I'm not going to root for failure just to make those changes. I'd rather root for Outlaw to play well, and help us if he can, and get traded because of his increased value, or signed elsewhere because of it. Rooting for failure just to make a change is stupid in my opinion.

If we can get a better coach than Nate, great. I'm not going to root for my team to fail so that it can happen, however. I'd rather a Bulls situation, where we progress, but not quite far enough for our GM, and we make a change, as opposed to falling back, and having to bring in someone new to progress further.

Part of me hopes the team implodes this season, so people will see that Nate is NOT the reason this team has been winning.

I don't see how you can make that leap. How can you say that I'm rooting for our team to lose when I simply said a part of me. A part of me could equal .5%. It's an ambiguous statement.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yeah, but the analogy sucks. Would you root for Outlaw to miss every shot he takes this year, and otherwise have an attrocious year that costs us a winning season, just to get rid of him? I am all for upgrading at every spot we could. I'm not going to root for failure just to make those changes. I'd rather root for Outlaw to play well, and help us if he can, and get traded because of his increased value, or signed elsewhere because of it. Rooting for failure just to make a change is stupid in my opinion.

If we can get a better coach than Nate, great. I'm not going to root for my team to fail so that it can happen, however. I'd rather a Bulls situation, where we progress, but not quite far enough for our GM, and we make a change, as opposed to falling back, and having to bring in someone new to progress further.

This is where ot gets tricky for me. I believe Nate is a "comfort coach" He coaches to his comfort level. I have a very different opinion on how to be successful than Nate does. I believe a team should work from the inside out. Nate appears to think the team should work from the outside in. So when Blake and Travis and Martell keep jacking up jump shots when Greg Oden is being single covered on the low block, YES, part of me hopes they miss. IMO this is the only way Nate will alter his game plan.

 

[RR7]

A part is plenty. You said you would take ssome satisfaction in a bad year. I don't care if that satisfaction is .5% of whatever ultimate level you have for basing your happiness or sadness on a season, i don't understand why a fan would have satisfaction over a loss in a situation like this. I understand intentionally tanking because of a horrible makeup of a team, to get better players. Having a good majority of the pieces in place, and tanking for a new coach, I just don't understand. To each their own. Here's hoping you don't reach that satisfaction.

 

[Natebishop3]

A part is plenty. You said you would take ssome satisfaction in a bad year. I don't care if that satisfaction is .5% of whatever ultimate level you have for basing your happiness or sadness on a season, i don't understand why a fan would have satisfaction over a loss in a situation like this. I understand intentionally tanking because of a horrible makeup of a team, to get better players. Having a good majority of the pieces in place, and tanking for a new coach, I just don't understand. To each their own. Here's hoping you don't reach that satisfaction.

Roy and Aldridge's rookie season we almost made the playoffs. If we had, we wouldn't have Greg Oden. Are you telling me, at the end of the season when it was apparent we weren't going to get to the postseason, you weren't taking some satisfaction in knowing that we might have a shot at Oden or Durant?

This is the same thing for me. I'm seeing Nate make all kinds of questionable moves. I'm not the only one. As much as I want to see this team win a championship this year, and as much as I would celebrate winning a championship, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these moves blow up in his face.

Starting Blake over Miller is just plain stupid.

Slowing down an offense that has players who should be running is stupid.

Highlighting jump shooters instead of getting the ball to Oden is STUPID.

Many fans, not just those on this board, have defended Nate to the death. If it takes one bad year to wake up the masses, so be it.

I'm thinking long term. Not just this season.

 

[rocketeer]

Roy and Aldridge's rookie season we almost made the playoffs. If we had, we wouldn't have Greg Oden. Are you telling me, at the end of the season when it was apparent we weren't going to get to the postseason, you weren't taking some satisfaction in knowing that we might have a shot at Oden or Durant?

almost made the playoffs? portland won 32 games. the 8th seed won 42 games.

This is the same thing for me. I'm seeing Nate make all kinds of questionable moves. I'm not the only one. As much as I want to see this team win a championship this year, and as much as I would celebrate winning a championship, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these moves blow up in his face.

if you don't want nate to win the championship, you don't deserve to celebrate it if it happens.

Starting Blake over Miller is just plain stupid.

no it's not and you've disappeared several times after i've explained it to you.

Slowing down an offense that has players who should be running is stupid.

people constantly say this but it's hard to argue with the blazers offensive efficiency. then take into account that portland's best player likes to play at a slower pace and that portland has never had a good running pg and i'd say trying to force the team to run would have been stupid.

Highlighting jump shooters instead of getting the ball to Oden is STUPID.

absolutely. oden needs to be getting the ball inside.

Many fans, not just those on this board, have defended Nate to the death. If it takes one bad year to wake up the masses, so be it.

and you have done the opposite. great. that must make you better than everyone else.

 

[andalusian]

I just think it's funny that some people exclusively point to our record over the last three years as THE reason why nate is a good coach.

"Nate is a bad coach."

"No he isn't, look at this record over the last three years. If he was a bad coach, why would the team be improving?"

Tell me that's not how every single Nate coaching thread goes.

If you stick your head in the sand - it does not change the fact that there is a lion standing in front of you and going to eat you.

The team's record is a fact. Nate's ability to win 52 games in Seattle in a team with no real interior presence or defensive players is also a fact. The fact that he was one of the coaches chosen to help Team USA reclaim the gold (a goal they achieved) is also a fact. Knowing that players and coaches around the league claim that Portland is extremely well coached is also a fact.

You do not want to believe it - OK. But pointing to the facts and repeating them when you choose to present some notion that it is not true - is to be expected. Deal with it.

If you tell us that the sky is pink, Elvis was a gold fish and cold fusion exists - so be it, but finding people pointing you to fact that disprove it is just something you are going to have to live with...

 

[Natebishop3]

almost made the playoffs? portland won 32 games. the 8th seed won 42 games.

Roy and Aldridge were both hurt at the end. They would have finished with more wins. Some people accuse them of tanking. I'm not so sure.

if you don't want nate to win the championship, you don't deserve to celebrate it if it happens.

Good thing you aren't the one who determines who gets to celebrate. You question my loyalty, but your allegiance is split between the Rockets and Blazers.

no it's not and you've disappeared several times after i've explained it to you.

I've never seen them. Point me to some threads and I'll post a rebuttal.

people constantly say this but it's hard to argue with the blazers offensive efficiency. then take into account that portland's best player likes to play at a slower pace and that portland has never had a good running pg and i'd say trying to force the team to run would have been stupid.

Even now? We have a good running point guard. We have the players and the talent to run. Nate still isn't running.

absolutely. oden needs to be getting the ball inside.

Glad we agree on that.

and you have done the opposite. great. that must make you better than everyone else.

I don't understand why everyone has to take shots at me personally. I haven't singled anyone out. I'm trying to argue my case and people like you keep making it personal. Explain that, please? How is that okay?

 

[e_blazer]

I've got no beef with you, Nate, for thinking that your namesake is not the guy to coach the Blazers to the promised land. I certainly wouldn't take a potshot at you for holding that view. As I understand it, you don't like the way he juggles his personnel, particularly with Andre Miller not being in the starting lineup. MediocreMan thinks that Nate holds too tight of a reign on the team and won't let them play at a fast enough pace. EdO seems to be of the same opinion. I'd like to see the Blazers run more, too, but here's the deal. Nate sees his guys every day in practice and knows their abilities and failings. Their turnover rate is atrocious right now. It's his job to have the team play the way, and with the roster rotation, that he thinks will produce the most wins. It's not his job to play the way that you, or MM, or myself would like him to. He gets to make the call and he gets the blame if he's wrong.

One thing I like about Nate is his unique practice of just taking a one-year contract. I think he's his own hardest judge and if he thinks that he's not going to get the job done, I don't think KP and Paul Allen will have to fire him. I think he'll go on his own. Until he fails, he deserves to call the shots. Too many smart basketball people, starting with Mike Krzyzewski from his Team USA position, respect Nate's abilities as a coach for me to feel that I have much right to quibble over starting lineups and pace of play. It's all about the Ws.

 

[KingSpeed]

Wow. Talk about an overreaction. You'd think I posted something to the effect of

"I'm not rooting for the team anymore. I want them to fail. I want them to lose. I will not be happy until they lose all 82 games."

I just think it's funny that some people exclusively point to our record over the last three years as THE reason why nate is a good coach.

"Nate is a bad coach."

"No he isn't, look at this record over the last three years. If he was a bad coach, why would the team be improving?"

Tell me that's not how every single Nate coaching thread goes.

That's not how every single Nate coaching thread goes.